Sponsored

2015-17 Mustang GT Ford Performance Power Packs

oldboy

Active Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
25
Reaction score
21
Location
Austin TX area
First Name
Dave
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GT
At the risk of being a bore:

Detonation occurs after spark plug fires and typically after TDC. The plug firing creates a flame front that normally expands through the cylinder volume until all the fuel is consumed and/or the exhaust valve opens. Detonation occurs when the flame front compresses a portion of the unburned fuel/air mixture to explode from heat/compression. It is a brief event causing the "knock" you hear. In extreme cases (WOT) it is violent and can cause physical damage (broken rings most prominently) or complete piston/rod failure. Since the engine runs at greatest efficiency just at the ragged edge of detonation it may be somewhat tolerated at lower loads for long periods without damage (according to the article).

Pre-ignition occurs in a gasoline engine prior to the programmed firing of the spark plug. It is usually caused by an ember like ignition point like carbon build up, damaged spark plug, etc. The point made in the article is that detonation often occurs after fuel/air is sucked into the chamber, the intake valve closes and just as the piston begins to rise from Bottom Dead Center (BDC) in the compression stroke because that is when it is easiest to light at basically atmospheric pressure. As it compresses it gets harder to light. It is not an explosive event like detonation, thus the silent but deadly description, but it is a lengthy event potentially lasting the entire compression stroke expanding and burning as the engine is compressing it. It causes a great deal of local overheating to piston/head components. Pre-ignition is fatal in a very short time. I did not realize how early in the cycle this can occur.

Auto ignition refers to the diesel cycle where compression/heat alone is the driver of ignition by design. It does not apply to the gasoline engine cycle.
Sponsored

 

2morrow

DesignR/DriveR/RiceEatR
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Threads
58
Messages
6,500
Reaction score
6,121
Location
NorCal Bay Area
First Name
Todd
Vehicle(s)
'16 Mustang GTPP
Well party peeps, this has me and several others concerned. So much so that I decided to start a dialogue with Ford Performance.
I stated the issues that I have which some of you been experiencing. well, just check it out below and let me know what you think.

Some of the statements were a surprise to me.
Screen Shot 2016-12-29 at 11.52.51 AM.png
 

15GTBEN

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2014
Threads
8
Messages
781
Reaction score
114
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 SRT Hellcat A8, 2019 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Well party peeps, this has me and several others concerned. So much so that I decided to start a dialogue with Ford Performance.
I stated the issues that I have which some of you been experiencing. well, just check it out below and let me know what you think.

Some of the statements were a surprise to me.
I and several others had the ping issue with the S197 mustang GT and Boss procal tune and was told the exact same thing as stated above (oil sep, ping normal..)by Ford Racing.
They werent willing to datalog, test or update the tunes in anyway. It basically is what it is.
It's funny how they don't mention the rev hang, ping and oil separators in their advertising...
The good thing is, ive yet to hear of any motor failures due to this tune over the years.:shrug:
 

2morrow

DesignR/DriveR/RiceEatR
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Threads
58
Messages
6,500
Reaction score
6,121
Location
NorCal Bay Area
First Name
Todd
Vehicle(s)
'16 Mustang GTPP
I and several others had the ping issue with the S197 mustang GT and Boss procal tune and was told the exact same thing as stated above (oil sep, ping normal..)by Ford Racing.
They werent willing to datalog, test or update the tunes in anyway. It basically is what it is.
The good thing is, ive yet to hear of any motor failures due to this tune over the years.:shrug:
That is good news there. I was always under the impression that pinging is caused by detrimental factors(incorrect timing, air/fuel mix being off, bad/wrong plugs, etc). What do I know though...:shrug:
 

StrongFord

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2015
Threads
13
Messages
334
Reaction score
257
Location
SE Michigan
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Premium, MT, Deep Impact Blue, 401A
Well party peeps, this has me and several others concerned. So much so that I decided to start a dialogue with Ford Performance.
I stated the issues that I have which some of you been experiencing. well, just check it out below and let me know what you think.

Some of the statements were a surprise to me.
Wow.

I've continued following this thread, but I backed out of my PP2 kit several weeks back. This type of information has me satisfied with my decision.

Here's the direction I went. Not attempting to hijack thread, just sharing.
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1653526#post1653526
 

Sponsored

15GTBEN

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2014
Threads
8
Messages
781
Reaction score
114
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 SRT Hellcat A8, 2019 Tesla Model 3 Performance
That is good news there. I was always under the impression that pinging is caused by detrimental factors(incorrect timing, air/fuel mix being off, bad/wrong plugs, etc). What do I know though...:shrug:
No, I think you're correct on the cause; nothing magical about these tunes.
I have yet to hear of any other aftermarket N/A tunes causing failures in the S550 either.
I'd love to see datalogs of the Ford racing tunes. Their tunes could be running hot relying on the knock sensors/ecu to protect the motor for all we know. At least they cover you for the 3/36.
 

2morrow

DesignR/DriveR/RiceEatR
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Threads
58
Messages
6,500
Reaction score
6,121
Location
NorCal Bay Area
First Name
Todd
Vehicle(s)
'16 Mustang GTPP

wildcatgoal

@sirboom_photography
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Threads
76
Messages
6,589
Reaction score
2,513
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
TBD
The other spark mapping mode so far seems to have reduced the pinging. I think I only heard it once today but that could have been some other ambient noise as it wasn't obvious. Otherwise I haven't heard it. I have an OBD reader and got some software to watch PIDs but I don't know which to pick or what I'm looking at.

Again, if it wasn't for having to cut hoses this would be off of my car.
 

15GTBEN

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2014
Threads
8
Messages
781
Reaction score
114
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 SRT Hellcat A8, 2019 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Wow.

I've continued following this thread, but I backed out of my PP2 kit several weeks back. This type of information has me satisfied with my decision.

Here's the direction I went. Not attempting to hijack thread, just sharing.
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1653526#post1653526
Nice intake. Never heard of Brent Hughes however. I'd be weary of going with unknowns with the coyote platform.
Why not something proven like an e85 flex tune by lund?
 

2morrow

DesignR/DriveR/RiceEatR
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Threads
58
Messages
6,500
Reaction score
6,121
Location
NorCal Bay Area
First Name
Todd
Vehicle(s)
'16 Mustang GTPP
The other spark mapping mode so far seems to have reduced the pinging. I think I only heard it once today but that could have been some other ambient noise as it wasn't obvious. Otherwise I haven't heard it. I have an OBD reader and got some software to watch PIDs but I don't know which to pick or what I'm looking at.

Again, if it wasn't for having to cut hoses this would be off of my car.
Sorry man, must've missed this. Can you elaborate on the other spark mapping mode? Is this selectable when interfacing with the procal tool?

Thanks in advance.
 

Sponsored

Rich of So Cal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2015
Threads
0
Messages
654
Reaction score
211
Location
So Cal-IE
First Name
Rich
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Prem/auto - triple yellow convert
Thanks. I don't think us Cali folks wont be able to pass smog with this set up though. :headbonk:
I think you are saying that we WON'T pass smog with this setup?? Is that because of the oil separator being non CARB?

Funny, I had already installed a MOROSO oil sep. I did not know at the time that they fell under CARB (no warning on the website). Also, I do NOT have any pinging. I don't know if that is due to the oil separator or just that the automatic version is not susceptible to the ping problem.

But looks like I may have to invest in a FRPP oil separator, if they are indeed CARB legal. :doh:

The MOROSO is so easy....turn the spigot and empty the oil.
 

2morrow

DesignR/DriveR/RiceEatR
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Threads
58
Messages
6,500
Reaction score
6,121
Location
NorCal Bay Area
First Name
Todd
Vehicle(s)
'16 Mustang GTPP
I think you are saying that we WON'T pass smog with this setup?? Is that because of the oil separator being non CARB?

Funny, I had already installed a MOROSO oil sep. I did not know at the time that they fell under CARB (no warning on the website). Also, I do NOT have any pinging. I don't know if that is due to the oil separator or just that the automatic version is not susceptible to the ping problem.

But looks like I may have to invest in a FRPP oil separator, if they are indeed CARB legal. :doh:

The MOROSO is so easy....turn the spigot and empty the oil.
Yeah, from what I understand the oil separator has to be CARB legal too. I may be wrong about this but the great state of CA is super strict about stuff like this.

However, I'm stoked to hear that you dont have the pinging issue that others have. :thumbsup:

My car is pretty loud and with my hearing issues sometimes I wonder if I will even notice. Thats why I'm trying to figure this all out before I install it.
 

Rich of So Cal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2015
Threads
0
Messages
654
Reaction score
211
Location
So Cal-IE
First Name
Rich
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Prem/auto - triple yellow convert
Yeah, from what I understand the oil separator has to be CARB legal too. I may be wrong about this but the great state of CA is super strict about stuff like this.

However, I'm stoked to hear that you dont have the pinging issue that others have. :thumbsup:

My car is pretty loud and with my hearing issues sometimes I wonder if I will even notice. Thats why I'm trying to figure this all out before I install it.
Just did some searching. Apparently some sites warn about CARB for this (like Steeda), but many do not. Interestingly, Ford Racing does NOT say anything about it being CARB compliant or that it needs to be. So, the info above, from a Ford Racing tech is worthless, in that regard. They do not mention or provide an CARB EO#.


CORRECTION!!! Steeda says the Ford oil separator is also NOT CARB compliant. Seems we cannot get a straight answer from Ford!
 

Traffic22

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Threads
15
Messages
536
Reaction score
985
Location
SF Bay Area
First Name
Chuck
Vehicle(s)
2018 F-150 Raptor, 2011 Ford CV Lemons Race Car
The other spark mapping mode so far seems to have reduced the pinging. I think I only heard it once today but that could have been some other ambient noise as it wasn't obvious. Otherwise I haven't heard it. I have an OBD reader and got some software to watch PIDs but I don't know which to pick or what I'm looking at.

Again, if it wasn't for having to cut hoses this would be off of my car.

Glad the spark mapping mode seems to help a bit. I've been following your posts/problems for a while now, mostly because my PP2 is literally being installed right now, and wanted to know what to watch for.

I have been thinking about this for a few days now....I know some rev hang is to be expected (at least according to the info from FRPP that was posted earlier) but I'm wondering you have a vacuum leak somewhere.

I could be totally off base, but here is why I wonder this. If the engine is sucking air from somewhere it shouldn't be, the ecu is going to get real confused. In response, it wants to keep the engine running, thus, introducing more fuel to compensate. Given the T fitting that has to be installed, plus the throttle body to spacer seal, as well as all the other hoses that get unplugged and re-plugged during the install, I'm wondering if you have a tiny leak somewhere that is F'ing everything up?

Have you tried the old school trick of spraying the hoses with some soapy water and looking for bubbles?

Just a thought. I could be way off, but would love to see this resolved, given the time and effort you have put into it.

Service advisor just called....car good to go....I'll report back later, wish me luck.
 

MarkH

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Threads
4
Messages
332
Reaction score
66
Location
Sunshine state
Vehicle(s)
2017 Magnetic GT PP Vert
No, I think you're correct on the cause; nothing magical about these tunes.
I have yet to hear of any other aftermarket N/A tunes causing failures in the S550 either.
I'd love to see datalogs of the Ford racing tunes. Their tunes could be running hot relying on the knock sensors/ecu to protect the motor for all we know. At least they cover you for the 3/36.
Applying my old logic, I would say that the timing is advanced too far and the spark mode will probably pull it back in to reduce the ping.

BTW I put 60 miles on mine today, all country roads, and no more ping. Last night after I picked it up at the dealer the drive home was a high volume of stop and go traffic. Thinking it didn't learn properly and hoping its all set now.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:
 








Top