2015-2016 Tech Pack and Base GT350 Cooler Solution Discussion

[Side_Pce]

You're forgetting one thing about a class action suit: No attorney who's in the law to make a living (as opposed to doing it for a hobby) is going to take on a suit like this because the potential fee isn't known. (What are you going to do, give the attorney 1/3 of your transmission as payment for winning the suit?) Besides, the size of the class is tiny. You'd need an attorney to take this on a fee basis, and how many of you guys are going to contribute thousands to that? Most of you guys here just want coolers and a new tranny at no cost, although a few of you said you'd step up and pay for the fix.

The NHTSA route may be a logical one to take, but only if the problems are repeatable and caused a safety problem at legally driven speeds on the street. That's going to be pretty hard to come up with, especially since the cars are still driveable at legal speeds when they go into limp mode.

And a phone campaign to Ford Performance will just make you even more crazy. How long are you going to listen to busy signals when all 6 lines (or however many) are full? And let's give the poor folks at Ford Performance who have been so helpful on other issues a break. They only have the power to pass along official Ford information to customers and log in phone calls to send up the Ford food chain - and believe me, they've logged enough limp mode calls to make the higher-ups aware of the problem.

You're even screwed if you try to tell the stories to the car magazines and websites, because the '16 Tech Packages are old news, and all of the upcoming "Best handling car in the universe" tests and comparison tests between the new Camaro and the GT 350s will use '17 models. And if you hurt the reputation of one GT 350 model, you'll kill the value of all GT 350s.

So, what's the answer? There really isn't a good one, beyond going through the Ford warranty process and then all the consumer protection outlets. The lemon laws exist for a reason, but the only time I've tried to use it, the manufacturer stepped up and bought the car back from me.

So, good friggin' luck to all of us in the real world.

It comes down safety. Did Ford intentionally remove the coolers to save cost? Yes. Did Ford know it would lead to eventual transmission problems? Most likely Yes. Has anyone been injured, property damaged or other financial loss outside of the car in question? Not to my knowledge.

Your point is valid in the only leg we have to stand on is... We can't track the car for longer than 20min before it shuts itself down for "safety" reasons. The fact that Ford implemented a "Limp Mode" negates any action towards them in the matter despite what we think their advertising campaign said.

It comes down to the warranty. If the trans blows in the warranty window, and no modifications were made to the trans. You get a new one... That won't be a cooler trans. If someone gets injured because they are casually cruising down the road and their trans goes into limp mode, or blows up? causing an accident (lets hope not) then the litigation will come into play.

Ford has done this before to save 7 cents a part on exploding gas tanks. You think they care about our limited market? and a 7K parts/labor bill to swap our parts out? Laughable.

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[Tank]

Now that I can see my tranny temps with the gauge via the Forscan settings I average 220 to 240 temps in cool weather.

Mine are in the same ballpark- I hit the 240s consistently. When I play around with the mid powerband, in the 250s.

Your temps are unusually high.

With all respect, you don't have an adequate sample size to say this, 65sohc.

I'd put $20 on a bet at least a couple of Ford engineers have an adequate sample size.

 

[65sohc]

I'm sure everyone is familiar with the infamous transmission lockout problem that became apparent shortly after the 2011 GT's came on the market. That affected hundreds, if not thousands of cars and WAS a bona fide safety issue as it was first reported by a guy merging onto a freeway and not being able to find a gear. After receiving 364 complaints NHTSA conducted an investigation and concluded "There is no indication of loss of motive power or unreasonable safety risk associated with the alleged defect in the subject vehicles." The chances of their investigating a complaint that occurs primarily on a race track is less than zero. Ford's response, aside from a few bandaids, was to let the S197 run its course and then equip the S555's with a new clutch and shifter design.

 

[65sohc]

Mine are in the same ballpark- I hit the 240s consistently. When I play around with the mid powerband, in the 250s.



With all respect, you don't have an adequate sample size to say this, 65sohc.

I'd put $20 on a bet at least a couple of Ford engineers have an adequate sample size.

You hit 240 during a commute?

 

[Tank]

You hit 240 during a commute?

Who's to say what a commute is?


Also, it doesn't matter what transpired with other models.
Because yours doesn't get to that temp, you can't say what is usual or unusual...

 

[USMC0341]

You hit 240 during a commute?

mix freeway and stop in go traffic. if i drive like a granny and never make the muffler valves go to sport the tranny hits 200. the fluid level has been checked.

I still love my car. I will never track it. I will gladly pay for a fix! just want a complete kit! one stop shop or a external cooling kit. just want all in one kit.

 

[5.0 435]

Who the hell bought this car to drive only in a funeral ? Really.

 

[JN66]

mix freeway and stop in go traffic. if i drive like a granny and never make the muffler valves go to sport the tranny hits 200. the fluid level has been checked.

I still love my car. I will never track it. I will gladly pay for a fix! just want a complete kit! one stop shop or a external cooling kit. just want all in one kit.

I have hit limp mode a number of times on my commute. Few times a week I have a 1.5hr drive.

I hit 246 yesterday on my drive home from the airport. Took 35 minutes (each way) - I was dropping someone off. 119 Celsius.

 

[Tank]

mix freeway and stop in go traffic. if i drive like a granny and never make the muffler valves go to sport the tranny hits 200. the fluid level has been checked.

I still love my car. I will never track it. I will gladly pay for a fix! just want a complete kit! one stop shop or a external cooling kit. just want all in one kit.

I have hit limp mode a number of times on my commute. Few times a week I have a 1.5hr drive.

I hit 246 yesterday on my drive home from the airport. Took 35 minutes (each way) - I was dropping someone off. 119 Celsius.

Yeah, now that we can monitor the transmission temp, it's very concerning how hot they actually get.

Anyone know the operating temp of the Mercon LV? How quickly it breaks down at these temps? At the least, Ford should be providing some guidance...:headbonk:

 

[_M_]

You're forgetting one thing about a class action suit: No attorney who's in the law to make a living (as opposed to doing it for a hobby) is going to take on a suit like this because the potential fee isn't known.

Thats not really fully accurate. We may have an attorney with the right experience and influence in our own community willing to do it. I can't think of the cases right now, but there have been several attorneys that have stepped in for second amendment cases that haven't netted them a dime. Did people step up and contribute to help with costs, they sure did, but that wasn't requested by anyone.

Additionally, if they win the case, they can and almost always bill the losing party (in this case Ford) for their fees. In this case, to your point, on a fee basis an attorney or firm may be willing to take the case with the intent of getting their fees from Ford if they feel reasonably secure that they could win the case. They could even gain damages if it goes to a jury, then the amount can be significant if a jury of peers feel that a giant corporation mislead the public.

So not arguing with you, but not as clear cut as you say.

I really do feel for everyone having issues, I haven't, but I would certainly support the movement, even financially.


edit: because i would definitely add the coolers...and id rather not part with my car and get a 17. I have a low chassis number, and it may not mean anything in long run, but i love having one of the early ones produced.

 

[dean_acheson]

Then generalized rule is that most parties carry their costs in a suit unless there is a statutory exception to the rule. Also, most juries are not going to be horrendously sympathetic to this issue.

 

[Deranged1]

This is why I believe the heat issues to be an engineering flaw. The engineers should had know that if a car designed for high performance was going to generate this much heat. They should have picked a transmission that could handle the friction better or included cooling mechanisms as cool air routing and even coolers if needed.


The engineers should had been demanding that Ford not remove the coolers if they are this needed.

I agree 910%. They dropped the ball big time.

 

[superman07]

I have hit limp mode a number of times on my commute. Few times a week I have a 1.5hr drive.

I hit 246 yesterday on my drive home from the airport. Took 35 minutes (each way) - I was dropping someone off. 119 Celsius.

passengers really matter, i hit over 250 with a full car cruising at 80 for 45 minutes and it was only in the 80s.

 

[superman07]

Yeah, now that we can monitor the transmission temp, it's very concerning how hot they actually get.

Anyone know the operating temp of the Mercon LV? How quickly it breaks down at these temps? At the least, Ford should be providing some guidance...:headbonk:

I posted the technical data for the fluid on another post, viscosity and protective properties are quite different at 240-260 degrees versus the 160-180 norm with coolers. It is impossible that the non cooled transmissions will not have a shorter life span with the same maintenance interval.

 

[Essex Wire]

You're forgetting one thing about a class action suit: No attorney who's in the law to make a living (as opposed to doing it for a hobby) is going to take on a suit like this because the potential fee isn't known. (What are you going to do, give the attorney 1/3 of your transmission as payment for winning the suit?) Besides, the size of the class is tiny. You'd need an attorney to take this on a fee basis, and how many of you guys are going to contribute thousands to that? Most of you guys here just want coolers and a new tranny at no cost, although a few of you said you'd step up and pay for the fix.


You make some interesting points, but I really wouldn't make predictions about who will need to pay legal fees and whether attorneys will take the case on contingency or not until you/we/somebody actually consults the right, qualified attorneys. For one thing, certain breach of warranty, product defect consumer fraud and false advertising statutes have provisions for statutory damages and for the losing defendant to pay all legal fees and costs. I would be very surprised if there isn't a solid way for attorneys to earn a significant sum if they win or settle the case.

Let's take it one step at a time. True, there are some problematic issues that make our case not as great as those for mass production defects. But, as far as I see it, Ford's liability here is black and white. I am convinced that once we obtain all the emails and other documents from Ford in discovery we will see very clearly what happened here, and it will not be flattering to Ford.

I also agree with others here that Ford will not do anything satisfactory to compensate us Base and Tech owners without some form of legal action.

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