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2018 Mustang refresh?

Darkane

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Nah, size. The big reason the F-150 lost so much weight is because it's big. The least weight lost was about 620 lbs (reg. cab, short box), and the most a touch over 700.

The new Super Duty saw less weight loss than the F-150, because the pick-up boxes are further reinforced, but the cab weight loss is identical.

The Mustang would probably lose ~200 lbs going to aluminum while keeping the same strength and rigidity. Definitely worthwhile on weight, but hard to justify on cost. The F-150 cost Ford ~$6B to do, a huge percentage of that in new body tooling and development.
Yes I agree with you. The fact the mustang needs a unibody of aluminum to make it worthwhile is what I meant, and that's not happening for a while - if ever.

The most we'd see is about 200lbs. The GT350 also has aluminum fenders, so that car is looking more like 150-175 lbs by switching. Not enough incentive.
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foghat

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Yes I agree with you. The fact the mustang needs a unibody of aluminum to make it worthwhile is what I meant, and that's not happening for a while - if ever.

The most we'd see is about 200lbs. The GT350 also has aluminum fenders, so that car is looking more like 150-175 lbs by switching. Not enough incentive.
All S550s have aluminum front fenders.
 

BmacIL

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c-rizzle

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All S550s have aluminum front fenders.
Wow, I didn't know that!

So we already have aluminum hoods & front fenders?

I thought the trunks were aluminum ?
 

Petroleum Jesus

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Nah, size. The big reason the F-150 lost so much weight is because it's big. The least weight lost was about 620 lbs (reg. cab, short box), and the most a touch over 700.

The new Super Duty saw less weight loss than the F-150, because the pick-up boxes are further reinforced, but the cab weight loss is identical.

The Mustang would probably lose ~200 lbs going to aluminum while keeping the same strength and rigidity. Definitely worthwhile on weight, but hard to justify on cost. The F-150 cost Ford ~$6B to do, a huge percentage of that in new body tooling and development.
This has little to do with market demand and almost entirely to do with the demands of the Oligarchy. The sad thing is that with the substantial investment in the weight savings, ecoboost engines, start-stop tech, and 10-speed automatic transmission, Most 2017 F150s still don't meet the minimum emissions and fuel economy requirements for 2017. The fuel economy standards can be averaged over the entirety of the fleet, but the emissions could kill the entire platform if the executive orders are enforced. It's unlikely that they will, but it doesn't bode well for the future of the US auto industry under the current tyrannical regime.
 

15wile

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This has little to do with market demand and almost entirely to do with the demands of the Oligarchy. The sad thing is that with the substantial investment in the weight savings, ecoboost engines, start-stop tech, and 10-speed automatic transmission, Most 2017 F150s still don't meet the minimum emissions and fuel economy requirements for 2017. The fuel economy standards can be averaged over the entirety of the fleet, but the emissions could kill the entire platform if the executive orders are enforced. It's unlikely that they will, but it doesn't bode well for the future of the US auto industry under the current tyrannical regime.
Yeah, it's getting pretty ridiculous.
 

BmacIL

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This has little to do with market demand and almost entirely to do with the demands of the Oligarchy. The sad thing is that with the substantial investment in the weight savings, ecoboost engines, start-stop tech, and 10-speed automatic transmission, Most 2017 F150s still don't meet the minimum emissions and fuel economy requirements for 2017. The fuel economy standards can be averaged over the entirety of the fleet, but the emissions could kill the entire platform if the executive orders are enforced. It's unlikely that they will, but it doesn't bode well for the future of the US auto industry under the current tyrannical regime.
Ford isn't going to spend another few billion on tooling for the Mustang without a business case. The F-series makes ~80-85% of the profits for FoMoCo as a whole, and thus the investment (above and beyond what a typical new cab/box would be) can be justified.

I generally agree on CAFE, and would favor higher gas taxes as a method for moving the market to higher fuel efficiency over what we have now. The current regulations don't mean anything to the customers of these vehicles, so they have no incentive to buy a more fuel efficient one on that basis. Make fuel more expensive, however, and you push the demand rather than the supply. The government just has a hard time doing the logical thing for political reasons. Curbing fuel usage is a good idea, as are emissions limits on smog-causing gases and respiratory irritants/carcinogens. The current methods to limit CO2/fuel usage are seriously flawed and only provide politicians with a satisfying number to flaunt around.
 

cosmo

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Ford isn't going to spend another few billion on tooling for the Mustang without a business case. The F-series makes ~80-85% of the profits for FoMoCo as a whole, and thus the investment (above and beyond what a typical new cab/box would be) can be justified.

I generally agree on CAFE, and would favor higher gas taxes as a method for moving the market to higher fuel efficiency over what we have now. The current regulations don't mean anything to the customers of these vehicles, so they have no incentive to buy a more fuel efficient one on that basis. Make fuel more expensive, however, and you push the demand rather than the supply. The government just has a hard time doing the logical thing for political reasons. Curbing fuel usage is a good idea, as are emissions limits on smog-causing gases and respiratory irritants/carcinogens. The current methods to limit CO2/fuel usage are seriously flawed and only provide politicians with a satisfying number to flaunt around.
Pushing people to more fuel efficient vehicles by demanding changes of the car companies isn't political suicide.

Suggesting to raise the tax on fuel to an astronomical level however, is.
 

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foghat

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Wow, I didn't know that!

So we already have aluminum hoods & front fenders?

I thought the trunks were aluminum ?
Trunks are not. Try taking a magnet to yours and let me know what happens. :)
 

Petroleum Jesus

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Ford isn't going to spend another few billion on tooling for the Mustang without a business case. The F-series makes ~80-85% of the profits for FoMoCo as a whole, and thus the investment (above and beyond what a typical new cab/box would be) can be justified.

I generally agree on CAFE, and would favor higher gas taxes as a method for moving the market to higher fuel efficiency over what we have now. The current regulations don't mean anything to the customers of these vehicles, so they have no incentive to buy a more fuel efficient one on that basis. Make fuel more expensive, however, and you push the demand rather than the supply. The government just has a hard time doing the logical thing for political reasons. Curbing fuel usage is a good idea, as are emissions limits on smog-causing gases and respiratory irritants/carcinogens. The current methods to limit CO2/fuel usage are seriously flawed and only provide politicians with a satisfying number to flaunt around.
The F-series accounts for about half of Ford's profits in the US. It's far less than that worldwide. The government shouldn't be regulating CO2 emissions at all. If they are looking to incentivise people to buy fuel efficient vehicles, they should just regulate the import of foreign oil to maintain a minimum petroleum commodity price (let's say $60/bbl for wti) in the US market. That makes gas more expensive and the money goes towards creating (or restoring) jobs in the energy sector rather than paying for more government waste. As a bonus, it isolates us from opec's destructive market control practices. Obviously, if there was a supply shortage in the US and oil prices went to high, import regulations could be eased to keep the prices in check (maybe $80/bbl for wti).
 

BmacIL

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Pushing people to more fuel efficient vehicles by demanding changes of the car companies isn't political suicide.

Suggesting to raise the tax on fuel to an astronomical level however, is.
Exactly. Even though higher fuel taxes is exactly what we should do (and use them to pay for roads and other infrastructure) . It is political suicide, but necessary.
 

VTECSAUCE

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Exactly. Even though higher fuel taxes is exactly what we should do (and use them to pay for roads and other infrastructure) . It is political suicide, but necessary.
That would be responsible usage of that money. Our government clearly doesn't understand financial responsibility and this is coming from someone who works for it LOL.
 

Petroleum Jesus

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That would be responsible usage of that money. Our government clearly doesn't understand financial responsibility and this is coming from someone who works for it LOL.
Exactly. I seem to remember a 1 trillion dollar stimulus that was supposed to be used for new roads and infrastructure. Where did that money go?
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