2018 Mustang refresh?

[Bullitt]

I was quite happy with the 2017 order menu, being able to get a V8, stick, cloth, performance package, no luxuries all at a doable price.

And that's exactly why the Mustang is continuing to sell well. Ford is smarter than Chevy thinks. Let the Camaro have the slightly faster lap time and higher price. Ford is laughing all the way to the bank while the Camaro is winning the race to an early grave with it's sales figures.

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[MRGTX]

And that's exactly why the Mustang is continuing to sell well. Ford is smarter than Chevy thinks. Let the Camaro have the slightly faster lap time and higher price. Ford is laughing all the way to the bank while the Camaro is winning the race to an early grave with it's sales figures.

:doh:

Come on...I really wish this forum wouldn't compel me to speak up on behalf of the damn Camaro again but this kind of stuff just demands a comment.

First, we should all want competition. As a long time Red Sox fan, I secretly know that Baseball is way more fun when the Yankees are a good team.

For example, the Mustang farted along for a whole generation with no competition and got by on 300hp from a very old motor. It wasn't until the 5th gen Camaro came along until Ford was forced to offer something more than the same tired old 4.6L. Likewise, the Camaro's IRS proved to be vastly better than the best efforts on the S197's solid axle. Yeah, Boss 302 was great. It was also a heroic effort to make the most of a cost-cutting measure from Ford. Meanwhile, the Camaro 1LE just walked all over any version of the S197...and sure enough, the next gen Mustang got a damn good IRS! (yeah, yeah...the 2015 1LE is still better driver's car than the all-new Mustang GT PP... still, the effort was there).

Second, Chevrolet seems to be moving Camaro up market. Supposedly, the higher transaction price has meant that even with the small sales volume, the car has been a financial success. You're all free to disagree but I'm glad to hear that the model is doing well.

Let's hope this continues and both are successful. But I'm also hoping that the Ford doesn't follow suit in pushing the Mustang up market to match. Mustang still offers a V8 model at the lower trim levels and I hope it stays that way. My 300A GT has been just the car I wanted and it was also the one I could afford.

 

[Bullitt]

Second, Chevrolet seems to be moving Camaro up market. Supposedly, the higher transaction price has meant that even with the small sales volume, the car has been a financial success. You're all free to disagree but I'm glad to hear that the model is doing well.

Let's hope this continues and both are successful. But I'm also hoping that the Ford doesn't follow suit in pushing the Mustang up market to match. Mustang still offers a V8 model at the lower trim levels and I hope it stays that way. My 300A GT has been just the car I wanted and it was also the one I could afford.

I'm not sure if the Camaro is a financial success given they way overproduced the 2016s and have a 120+ day supply of them still sitting around that they now have to discount substantially to move.

I agree, I want the Camaro to do well because competition is what drives innovation. My comment was directed at those that want all the Camaro's toys in the 2018 Mustang but don't realize it'll mean much more expensive cars that won't sell nearly as well to the average consumer. I'm hoping Ford offers the toys as options to those that want them and hopefully the dealers will know to stay away from the pricey options when they order stock and continue to stock the 300As that everyone buys and loves so Mustang sales don't start to follow the Camaro's.

 

[lemers]

:doh:

Come on...I really wish this forum wouldn't compel me to speak up on behalf of the damn Camaro again but this kind of stuff just demands a comment.

First, we should all want competition. As a long time Red Sox fan, I secretly know that Baseball is way more fun when the Yankees are a good team.

For example, the Mustang farted along for a whole generation with no competition and got by on 300hp from a very old motor. It wasn't until the 5th gen Camaro came along until Ford was forced to offer something more than the same tired old 4.6L. Likewise, the Camaro's IRS proved to be vastly better than the best efforts on the S197's solid axle. Yeah, Boss 302 was great. It was also a heroic effort to make the most of a cost-cutting measure from Ford. Meanwhile, the Camaro 1LE just walked all over any version of the S197...and sure enough, the next gen Mustang got a damn good IRS! (yeah, yeah...the 2015 1LE is still better driver's car than the all-new Mustang GT PP... still, the effort was there).

Second, Chevrolet seems to be moving Camaro up market. Supposedly, the higher transaction price has meant that even with the small sales volume, the car has been a financial success. You're all free to disagree but I'm glad to hear that the model is doing well.

Let's hope this continues and both are successful. But I'm also hoping that the Ford doesn't follow suit in pushing the Mustang up market to match. Mustang still offers a V8 model at the lower trim levels and I hope it stays that way. My 300A GT has been just the car I wanted and it was also the one I could afford.

Im gonna :threadjacked: because I too am a Red Sox fan (born and raised), and I agree competition is good, but doesn't feel better when the team you stand behind wins the game as apposed to fans having to say "we would win if we spent as much as you" now :focus:

 

[Todd15Fastback]

:doh:

Come on...I really wish this forum wouldn't compel me to speak up on behalf of the damn Camaro again but this kind of stuff just demands a comment.

First, we should all want competition. As a long time Red Sox fan, I secretly know that Baseball is way more fun when the Yankees are a good team.

For example, the Mustang farted along for a whole generation with no competition and got by on 300hp from a very old motor. It wasn't until the 5th gen Camaro came along until Ford was forced to offer something more than the same tired old 4.6L. Likewise, the Camaro's IRS proved to be vastly better than the best efforts on the S197's solid axle. Yeah, Boss 302 was great. It was also a heroic effort to make the most of a cost-cutting measure from Ford. Meanwhile, the Camaro 1LE just walked all over any version of the S197...and sure enough, the next gen Mustang got a damn good IRS! (yeah, yeah...the 2015 1LE is still better driver's car than the all-new Mustang GT PP... still, the effort was there).

Second, Chevrolet seems to be moving Camaro up market. Supposedly, the higher transaction price has meant that even with the small sales volume, the car has been a financial success. You're all free to disagree but I'm glad to hear that the model is doing well.

Let's hope this continues and both are successful. But I'm also hoping that the Ford doesn't follow suit in pushing the Mustang up market to match. Mustang still offers a V8 model at the lower trim levels and I hope it stays that way. My 300A GT has been just the car I wanted and it was also the one I could afford.

Who appointed you the defender of the Camaro over here? Go over yander and defend it.

Chevy is moving the Camaro up market? Really? And to what market is that? The same market that now has the Camaro discounted by 10k dollars for the 2SS model to attempt to move their 129 day supply? Just like the Z28 that had to have 20k+ discounts to attempt to move inventory?

 

[15wile]

Moving upmarket is not necessarily a good thing. GM already had an upmarket (or, rather, mid-to-up market) car: the Corvette. It also had offerings in the Cadillac stable. Note that in order to make the Camaro what it is today, they had to crib from their upmarket offerings, and so at least in part, charge an upmarket price for it.

I really dislike this notion that because one manufacturer has a faster car in whatever conditions, it must necessarily be a good thing. Price matters. The history of the Pony Car segment proves this. If you want a faster car than the Mustang, plenty of options exist to fulfill your need -- for a price. They have always existed. The Mustang is the everyman's sports car, something most folks making an average wage can afford, but still performs pretty well, and can be made to perform even better with some aftermarket love.

Or at least that's what it's supposed to be. The Mustang has been slowly creeping up in price also, just more slowly than the Camaro.

It's like the gentleman who pointed out that you can buy a 2SS for $38k ($35k if you have a lease conquest and a farm bureau membership -- what a weird incentive, lol), and that's a better car than the base GT at $27k. Yeah, okay, I can agree with that. But does that mean $11k of price difference (or $8k of price difference if you go 1SS) is trivial? No, no it isn't.

I can buy a whole brand new economy car (like a base Fiesta) for $11k. That's not chump change. I think some folks are accustomed to seeing it as chump change, because the payments obfuscate this difference to some degree (hey, I'm only paying $150 more a month!), but it isn't.

Look, the Camaro is a good set of wheels, and if you think it's better for you, and you have the money for it, I say you should go buy it and enjoy it. Me, I don't have the money for it (unless I wanted to finance -- and I don't), and all I really wanted was a V8 muscle car without a lot of frills. And I from the looks of this thread, I'm not the only one who says 'you know, a 300A with a stick is good enough for me.'

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

Who appointed you the defender of the Camaro over here? Go over yander and defend it.

Chevy is moving the Camaro up market? Really? And to what market is that? The same market that now has the Camaro discounted by 10k dollars for the 2SS model to attempt to move their 129 day supply? Just like the Z28 that had to have 20k+ discounts to attempt to move inventory?

I think it's about time we addressed the elephant in the room; the main reason why I didn'the buy the faster car.

It's a Chevy

It simply doesn't look or feel like a sophisticated vehicle. This is in stark contrast to the Corvette which I would be happy to drive. The car exudes a lack of quality, and a lack of elegance. From the massive bronze colored plastic emblem on the grill, to the overbearing belt line, to the cheap tail-lights, the car just screams trailer park. I was a big fan of the pinched proportions when I saw it in the mags, but in reality it looks cheap. It just doesn't tie together. That's why I chose the slower, better car. The mustang is in another class. Period.

 

[Khell86]

:doh:

Come on...I really wish this forum wouldn't compel me to speak up on behalf of the damn Camaro again but this kind of stuff just demands a comment.

First, we should all want competition. As a long time Red Sox fan, I secretly know that Baseball is way more fun when the Yankees are a good team.

For example, the Mustang farted along for a whole generation with no competition and got by on 300hp from a very old motor. It wasn't until the 5th gen Camaro came along until Ford was forced to offer something more than the same tired old 4.6L. Likewise, the Camaro's IRS proved to be vastly better than the best efforts on the S197's solid axle. Yeah, Boss 302 was great. It was also a heroic effort to make the most of a cost-cutting measure from Ford. Meanwhile, the Camaro 1LE just walked all over any version of the S197...and sure enough, the next gen Mustang got a damn good IRS! (yeah, yeah...the 2015 1LE is still better driver's car than the all-new Mustang GT PP... still, the effort was there).

Second, Chevrolet seems to be moving Camaro up market. Supposedly, the higher transaction price has meant that even with the small sales volume, the car has been a financial success. You're all free to disagree but I'm glad to hear that the model is doing well.

Let's hope this continues and both are successful. But I'm also hoping that the Ford doesn't follow suit in pushing the Mustang up market to match. Mustang still offers a V8 model at the lower trim levels and I hope it stays that way. My 300A GT has been just the car I wanted and it was also the one I could afford.

There is no proof that that the higher ATP's relate to the Camaro distinctly. GM has been talking about raising its ATP's across the board, and we've seen that with their price increases, but it has yet to break down individual ATP's for each model. This is just something Camaro6 is spouting off to justify its lackluster sales.

We'll find out in a year hopefully, whether the Camaro's performance warrants its prices. If the mustang gets the possible drivetrain upgrades we're hoping for (10 speed, DI resulting in HP/TQ bump, and possible Track Pack) and can keep the price down, the camaro will be up shit creek without a paddle.

 

[15wile]

There is no proof that that the higher ATP's relate to the Camaro distinctly. GM has been talking about raising its ATP's across the board, and we've seen that with their price increases, but it has yet to break down individual ATP's for each model. This is just something Camaro6 is spouting off to justify its lackluster sales.

It's interesting seeing this. The economy never really fully recovered from 2008, and things are still... dicey. And yet there is GM thinking "how can we charge more money?" If people are still in the woods financially, this is probably a losing sales strategy.

We'll find out in a year hopefully, whether the Camaro's performance warrants its prices. If the mustang gets the possible drivetrain upgrades we're hoping for (10 speed, DI resulting in HP/TQ bump, and possible Track Pack) and can keep the price down, the camaro will be up shit creek without a paddle.

Keeping the price down is key. If Ford can do that, it will go well for them. If they fail, and wind up bumped up a price bracket or two, I suspect they will lose a lot of their current business and suffer the same problem GM is having with the Camaro. I mean we joke about rental-spec V6s, and such, but the fact is that Ford sells a lot of basic models on price, and does well because there is a nice spectrum of options from a stripper fleet-model V6 on up to a GT350R track car. And in each price bracket except, perhaps, the GT350... they are price leaders.

 

[Khell86]

It's interesting seeing this. The economy never really fully recovered from 2008, and things are still... dicey. And yet there is GM thinking "how can we charge more money?" If people are still in the woods financially, this is probably a losing sales strategy.



Keeping the price down is key. If Ford can do that, it will go well for them. If they fail, and wind up bumped up a price bracket or two, I suspect they will lose a lot of their current business and suffer the same problem GM is having with the Camaro. I mean we joke about rental-spec V6s, and such, but the fact is that Ford sells a lot of basic models on price, and does well because there is a nice spectrum of options from a stripper fleet-model V6 on up to a GT350R track car. And in each price bracket except, perhaps, the GT350... they are price leaders.

The economy hasn't fully recovered yet and eventually its all going to take a dump again. Subprime loans are skyrocketing for everything. Lack of regulation of the market has led to wall street bundling shitty loans again and selling them. Inflation, coupled with lack of raises, and the desire for corporations to keep increasing profits is really fucking the people over. Prices keep getting higher and higher on cars and to be honest, a new mustang or camaro are out of my price range now. Sucks... I'm looking into bikes now in order to get my thrills.

 

[15wile]

...has led to wall street bundling shitty loans again and selling them.

I have to wonder what kind of idiots are buying these loan bundles again, after the last time this blew up in everyone's faces. Do people EVER learn?

 

[i3arracuda]

I have to wonder what kind of idiots are buying these loan bundles again, after the last time this blew up in everyone's faces. Do people EVER learn?

Why should they care? Too big to fail.

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

I have to wonder what kind of idiots are buying these loan bundles again, after the last time this blew up in everyone's faces. Do people EVER learn?

Logically speaking, no. Most people don't even know what happened with the subprime mortgage crash. They only know the labels associated and who was blamed. This trend of ignorance is more common than not, and never seems to change. It is and always has been this way.

 

[15wile]

Why should they care? Too big to fail.

Nothing is too big to fail. Just ask the Romans... except you can't.

Gods, people are stupid.

 

[RadRubyRed]

Im gonna :threadjacked: because I too am a Red Sox fan (born and raised), and I agree competition is good, but doesn't feel better when the team you stand behind wins the game as apposed to fans having to say "we would win if we spent as much as you" now :focus:

I agree with competition between Ford and Chevy, but as a DIE-HARD LIFE LONG YANKEES FAN, I can always do without the RedSux and the minor-league Rays! .....












Just kidding fellas... all in good fun!

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