BMR TR005 Toe Link Help

[jabrax]

Problem - Driver side Toe link knocks/clunks very bad on bumps and rough surfaces and sometimes stopping and starting (movement)

Course of events - The car had that horrible feeling after being lowered along with other mods done at the same time - lowering springs, vertical links, adj toe rods, swaybars, cradle lockout kit - then alignment

Took the advice to have the bushing "clocked" before an upcoming track day ( as that swaying and bumpy feeling felt too unstable.

Good news - It worked, car feels much more stable and grounded. Kelly, you da man.

Bad news - On the way home from getting it serviced, I noticed a banging from the rear, that seemed to get worse the closer I got to home, shop was closed. I pulled the wheels and both vertical link bolts appear loose as I could easily move the links with my hand (spherical). I tightened both down to spec and assumed my problem was solved.

Fast forward - car sat a week, I took it out and the issue is still there, I took it back to the shop first thing this morning and they were able to identify the source (they found when pull down on the sway bar, and I got to see and hear it also.

Through conversation with the guy who did the "clocking" for me, he loosened and tightened down the bolts on the toe rods the week before. Everything is torqued to spec. What could have caused toe rod joints to now act this way from loosening and retightening the bolt. They sprayed some kind of lubricant on it today to see if that has an impact for few days.

I was wondering if maybe some sort of adjustment was needed. I asked the guys should they do an alignment and they said that shouldn't be the issue since I had one a couple of weeks ago. Again, it drives great now, but the knocking noise is a just too bad - enough to take them off.

Any recommendations?

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[BMR Tech]

Do me a favor. Post pics of them as is....from different angles.

As in, go out and crawl down under the rear of the car and snap some pics of how they look - so I can see how they are oriented.

Sounds like something just isn't done right. Or the jam nuts are coming loose, etc.

Whatever it is, I will help you resolve it. But I need to know what the issue is exactly, first.

 

[Nine]

So they're making the noise still and the bolt going through the spherical link is tight? This is the exact same issue I spoke with Kelly about on the phone a week or so ago. In my case I found that if I loosened the bolt considerably (but still tight enough that it's squeezing the ears on the cradle where it mounts enough that the spacers aren't free to move) the noise went away. Tightening it back to the recommended torque brings the clunking back.

Kelly mentioned to clean the spherical bearing to see if it helps, and I said that I'll actually pull the toe links and look everything over off the car as well as clean it since I'm gonna press in the toe bearings on the knuckle side at the same time. I'll be doing it over the weekend and I'll report back with results. I'm happy to help troubleshoot this issue since it's super annoying.

 

[jabrax]

Thanks Kelly and Nine

I will snap photos first thing when I get home. The fact that they loosened the bolts and tightened them back down sounds like what Nine is describing.

 

[zuki_dan]

I had the same issue with mine a month after installation. I noticed it most at low speed in bumpy parking lots I was getting a knocking noise coming from the rear. One weekend I put the back of the car up on ramps and started with removing the rear shocks. The shocks were not the problem but it helped me to bounce the rear suspension up and down to locate the noise. I started taking parts off one at a time until the noise stopped. It ended up being the inner heim joints on both BMR toe rods. The passenger side was the worst of the 2.

The heim joints seemed really stiff compared with the vertical links and I think they were binding then releasing as the suspension cycled producing the knocking noise. Even after removing and re-installing they were making noise. I decided as a last resort to hose them down with WD40 and that cured the knocking noise. That was over 6 months ago and the noise hasn't come back on my car. I did PM Kelli about the issue with them and he offered me to send them back so he could inspect the joints but after I was able to get the noise gone i didn't think it was worth it.

I have since taken them loose and re-installed a couple of times since then and the noise still has not returned.

 

[Nine]

I started on the driver's side since that was by far the loudest one. I pulled the toe link and cleaned all the dirt off it, as well as spraying some lube with Teflon onto it as Kelly and I talked about. The lubricant helped get some more dirt out of the areas I can't reach, so I articulated the ball and kept adding lube and wiping until it no longer was pulling dirt out. I noticed that it took a significant amount of effort to move the ball, while you obviously don't want it loose it was actually pretty resistant to moving. Also, you can hear it squeaking as you articulate it even by hand. I also noticed a tiny amount of scoring in the ball, something gritty must have gotten in there, but it really didn't look too bad. I noticed while putting it back together that it was still making a considerable amount of noise if I had just the inboard side attached and would move it sharply. I put it all back together with plenty of Teflon lube on the inboard side. After getting the car back on the ground I noticed that it would no longer make the clunking noise if I pushed sharply on the roof (rocking the car side to side) as it would always do before. This raised my hopes a bit since I wasn't expecting any positive result after hearing it squeak and creak so badly during reassembly.

I moved to the passenger side and after pulling the outboard bolt I noticed that the spherical bearing moved much more freely than the driver side. It wasn't sloppy or anything that would indicate too much wear, but it was definitely a lot less stiff. This is probably why it was the quieter side of the two. As with the driver's side I applied lube and articulated the ball to get as much of the dirt out as possible. During reassembly it didn't make any of the creaking noise that the driver's side made.

I drove the car for probably 20 minutes after doing both sides and I'd say the noise is 98% gone. I heard a couple of very quiet clunks during that time but so far I'm quite pleased. I don't know what the deal is with that really tight bearing on the driver's side or how long this quiet situation will last.

Here's the slight scoring on the driver's side, the line from the 12:00 to 1:00 position:

Driver's side again. You can see the bearing is rather tight and squeaks even when moving it by hand. This is after cleaning and applying lubricant.

[ame]

Driver's side still. Here's the creaking as it articulates while on the car. This is after cleaning and lubing. I was very surprised that even with this sound the car doesn't seem to be clunking while driving now.

[ame]

 

[jabrax]

[MENTION=18072]Nine[/MENTION] - Glad to hear! When I left work on Friday after starting this thread, to my delight the knocking was 99% gone (the occasional knock came from the passenger side that was not sprayed. I don't know what kind of lube they sprayed, but it worked.

I still owe Kelly some pics and need to get the car up on ramps

 

[Nine]

I drove the car another hour or so today, and I did hear the occasional knock, but it really is 98% better. Now I just hope it lasts.

 

[09jsw]

Damn I just got mine in the mail . I hope I don't have this issue

 

[BMR Tech]

We have many hundreds of these out being used.

No reason to worry.

If there is a legitimate issue that cannot be resolved, that is the reason for our warranty.

We didn't build our name on selling parts that do not work and leaving our customers out to hang with defective parts. ;)

 

[dsp4848]

Thanks for posting guys, this got me thinking about an issue I've had recently. I've had a weird clunking/popping noise coming from my rear passenger side for the past few weeks and couldn't figure out where it was coming from. I would notice it at speeds below about 20mph, especially in parking lots and when I would turn. I could also replicate the noise when the car was parked by firmly pushing down on the hip of the car above the wheel well. I put the rear of the car up on ramps to get underneath and see if any bolts I had messed with were loose after installing the CB005, TR005, TCA045, and Steeda Diff. Bushing Inserts. All the bolts seemed tight, nothing loose.

After seeing this thread, I decided to lube up the toe rods' spherical joint to see if that made any difference, so I sprayed some WD40 on this area. After doing this, I haven't heard this sound at all and am thinking that maybe the toe rods had gotten dirt/debris in the spherical joint. I'll have to take the toe rods off and see if the joint is difficult to move or not when I get some time in the next couple of weeks.

Not saying that this is definitely the cause of the noise I was hearing, but this thread had me thinking, so I wanted to post my findings.

Also, this has me wondering if buying some sort of dust boot to go over this spherical joint would be beneficial at all? Maybe Kelly could chime in.

 

[Nine]

My noise came back after the Teflon lube, so I sprayed them down in WD40 and the noise has been gone for more than a week now.

 

[BMR Tech]

Hey guys, for those of you that have contamination issues, you should be able to Acquire the Seals It Boots, and they should help. I have been recommending them for years, with great feedback.

RERS3
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sit-rers3/overview/

They are NOT fun to put on. But they DO help keep your bearings clean.

I try to keep up on here as much as possible, but I find myself spending a tremendous amount of time here helping develop parts and of course assisting customers via phone calls. If you need anything, give me a ring.

 

[dsp4848]

Ok, so an update regarding the clunking/popping noise coming from my rear passenger side. Yesterday, I put the car on jack stands and took off the TR005 toe rods to clean them and install the RERS3 dust boots that Kelly had called out. Upon seeing my passenger side toe rod, but before removing it, I noticed that the side of the rod closest to the spherical joint was touching the front part of the subframe (the rounded edge that sticks out past where you install the bolt, where the eccentric bolts used to be). I believe I installed the billet rod end spacers backwards (since there's one small and one large), which was causing the toe rod to hit this piece of the subframe and cause this noise. I reinstalled the toe rods but swapped the location of the billet rod ends (put the large one in front this time) and now there seems to be enough clearance. I haven't driven much since reinstalling these, but I haven't heard any clunking so far. So, if anyone else is experiencing this, make sure that your toe rods aren't interfering with this part of the subframe, it could be your issue. Attached is a picture showing the area that I'm talking about where the toe rod was touching the subframe.

 

[BMR Tech]

That can/will definitely do it!

If ever any issues, dont hesitate to call me.

Enjoy!!!

PS: Post pics of the RERS3 pieces installed. ;)

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