Question about NOT replacing oil pump gears

[Travis@boostworks]

Very hard to compare the load conditions of a 1/2 mile race car to street cars. Traction, duration of pulls in higher gears.... All of that jazz. So I think street cars don't really need it.

If you're not willing to put an oil gear in your car, you should at least consider getting an ATi Dampener or the such.

We commonly have customers who ring out their vehicles to 160+mph on the highway. I don't think the distance or duration of time at WOT caused it.

Again I think it's just a freak thing that happens with a cast material.

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[Barrel]

We commonly have customers who ring out their vehicles to 160+mph on the highway. I don't think the distance or duration of time at WOT caused it.

Again I think it's just a freak thing that happens with a cast material.

I hope not, otherwise I should start shopping for a short block now and make some appointments lol.

 

[z06psi]

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?p=953063#post953063

 

[Roh92cp]

I'm looking into the same thing, and also considering the MMR piece made by Romac. Seems the removal and instal is fairly easy. Just not positive about how to or if the timing has to be set once installed.

1. A 3 prong puller to pull the OE damper off. May need to remove fan shroud?
2. Cold crank hot damper with anti seize instal with 12mm x 1.5 pitch 6" threaded rod with nut and large washer to drive the damper on and fulley seat.
3. ARP crank damper bolt torqued to 90 ft lb's I think.
4. Not sure about setting timing? verified from Whipple, ATI and Lethal no need to retime, just bolt on and go.
5. Their is a trick to get the short A/C belt on with a zip tie, but not clear on how it's done yet.

Whipple, ATI and Lethal all said no need to retime when changing the damper only as the crank sensor is inside. Just bolt on and go.

 

[z06psi]

Think there was some confusion about this since the thread is about OPG and timing gears. No problem.

 

[Gibbo205]

Whipple, ATI and Lethal all said no need to retime when changing the damper only as the crank sensor is inside. Just bolt on and go.

So is it as simple as remove the belt.
Remove crank pulley.
Re-fit new ATI/MMR crank pulley.
Put belt back on.
Have a beer.
Start engine.


That all there is to it?

 

[Roh92cp]

So is it as simple as remove the belt.
Remove crank pulley.
Re-fit new ATI/MMR crank pulley.
Put belt back on.
Have a beer.
Start engine.


That all there is to it?

Yup!!! that easy. Also use a dap of silicone on the keyway and bolt face to prevent oil weep.

 

[TheHydro]

I have one of the blemished ATI balancers brand new in the package. I'll sell if for whatever I paid if anyone is interested.

 

[Gibbo205]

Yup!!! that easy. Also use a dap of silicone on the keyway and bolt face to prevent oil weep.

Think I shall have to invest in either this one or the ATI then.

Are there any downsides to the MMR being lighter than the ATI, or is lighter better for crank pulley for reliability?

 

[Ingot2015]

i have the mmr on my car. no complaints. timing is done from the rear of the crank so there is no timing issues...

 

[GT2]

We commonly have customers who ring out their vehicles to 160+mph on the highway. I don't think the distance or duration of time at WOT caused it.

Again I think it's just a freak thing that happens with a cast material.

They ring their cars out to those load conditions, how often? Are you trying to say that your customers do multiple 0-160mph runs on the high way in the same day, just like the 1/2 mile car did?

The 1/2 mile car is going to see the stress more frequently and for a longer total amount of time than those street cars. Doesn't it seem odd that the same setup broke while racing, but not on the street? What's the difference between the two, other than time spent at wot/max load?

Most of the time in engines when gears get broken it's from exposure to ignition cut, resulting in a swift change in momentum, clattering a usually too lose fitting oil gear against the crank. Or in some keyed gears cases, point loading the corner of gear keyway against the crank. Which usually the first time you do that doesn't break the gear. But the material can only fatigue so much before it breaks. This is the case in the older rb26 engines at high rpm, vq35 engines at high rpm and several others.

If you could pull up some data logs we could see if redline was hit on a manual car, or for an automatic, if the ignition retard while shifting may have contributed to the oil gear failure.

Cast parts do have flaws in them, but judging by what I've seen with other DOHC engines, I believe it isn't that simple and "in the dark"

My current engine goes to 8k, but to help preserve the oil pump gear we set the rev limiter to 8.5k. Counter intuitive but alongside an ATi dampener, seemingly quite effective.

 

[sigintel]

It would be great to see more data to support the claim there is a greater occurrence of opg & tg failure with centri and TT setups. Maybe i'm off base here but seems like if centri and TT setups had an equal but higher rate of failure it would have more to do with how the power ramps up than belt configuration. Seems logical there would be sudden change in the harmonics as the boost come on. :shrug:

Any thoughts if centris with 6 rib belt upgrades would fair better? Would procharger vs paxton/vortech be any different?

If I can get lined out on how to instrument the crank pulley, Ive got a 1GHz MSO that I can run an FFT/spectrum analyzer on. Just need the time, sensors and various setups to test.
What would we need? X, Y, Z deflection at snout, Z angular accel, rpm, load, knock sensor... What else?
Maybe get some images in a thread of the various belt set ups.

Look at how Whipple runs their belt. It pulls on crank exact opposite of AC belt.
Even with that setup the snout deflection is hitting 4 ish degrees. Some of the centri setups use an additional pulley mounted further out on snout that drive only the centri with no opposing force generated.

How much miss alignment can a rod bearing take? If crank is pulled up 5 degrees that means compression is slightly higher on snout end of block and rod bearings must operate with that misalignment. Need data on which cylinder and which end of block these rod bearings are going.

 

[GT2]

If I can get lined out on how to instrument the crank pulley, Ive got a 1GHz MSO that I can run an FFT/spectrum analyzer on. Just need the time, sensors and various setups to test.
What would we need? X, Y, Z deflection at snout, Z angular accel, rpm, load, knock sensor... What else?
Maybe get some images in a thread of the various belt set ups.

Look at how Whipple runs their belt. It pulls on crank exact opposite of AC belt.
Even with that setup the snout deflection is hitting 4 ish degrees. Some of the centri setups use an additional pulley mounted further out on snout that drive only the centri with no opposing force generated.

How much miss alignment can a rod bearing take? If crank is pulled up 5 degrees that means compression is slightly higher on snout end of block and rod bearings must operate with that misalignment. Need data on which cylinder and which end of block these rod bearings are going.

I'm quite sure next to the increase in rpm, increasing the power output likely increases the amplitude of the crank vibrations.

I'd be interested to see how you plan on mounting those sensors to the crank. Or to the engine in a way that won't pick up a crap ton of noise

 

[rio16]

Sorry quick question. Does the Oil pan need to come off to install the OPG and Sprocket? Thanks so much

 

[z06psi]

Sorry quick question. Does the Oil pan need to come off to install the OPG and Sprocket? Thanks so much

Does it need to? No.

I will tell you what though. That one dammed 10mm bolt almost accounted for another Veteran's suicide. After 4 hours it wasn't funny anymore.

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