GT350R vs 6th Gen Z/28

[RedRiot]

The whole hysteria over the Z/28 has been absolutely silly. It's become a myth, whipped up by whispered stories by fans into something it wasn't.

"It really made about 500 horsepower" "It was the fastest Camaro ever in the 1st Generation" "It was above the SS in terms of trim and status" "No Mustang could ever compete"

Stuff like that, and it's not true, none of it. As a result, Chevy believed their own horseshit and felt they had to make the Z/28 utterly dominant and obliterating everything that came in its path. As a result you got an overpriced, over-equipped, uncomfortable, upkeep intensive (those trofeo R's) and one season only (summer) car that was entirely overgunned for your average "track day, bruh" events and HPDE sessions.

Look at what Ford did with the Boss 302. It was reasonably priced ($42,000 when a GT premium was about $36,000), offered a huge trackability upgrade over the GT, and wouldn't blow your wallet apart on upfront costs and upkeep. Compare that with the Z/28 which was $33,000 more and people wonder why it didn't sell well.
Virtually every Boss 302 made sold within 6 months or so of being on lots. Today there are STILL new Z/28's sitting on Chevy lots, even after 25% discounts and GM corporate practically begging people to buy it.

GM and their diehard fans are becoming increasingly inbred and self congratulatory, convinced that Americans will buy a Camaro at whatever price they see fit because they believe their own bullshit and the crap the magazines heap on it.

dont forget the golden ratio.

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[Voodooo]

The whole hysteria over the Z/28 has been absolutely silly. It's become a myth, whipped up by whispered stories by fans into something it wasn't.

"It really made about 500 horsepower" "It was the fastest Camaro ever in the 1st Generation" "It was above the SS in terms of trim and status" "No Mustang could ever compete"

Stuff like that, and it's not true, none of it. As a result, Chevy believed their own horseshit and felt they had to make the Z/28 utterly dominant and obliterating everything that came in its path. As a result you got an overpriced, over-equipped, uncomfortable, upkeep intensive (those trofeo R's) and one season only (summer) car that was entirely overgunned for your average "track day, bruh" events and HPDE sessions.

Look at what Ford did with the Boss 302. It was reasonably priced ($42,000 when a GT premium was about $36,000), offered a huge trackability upgrade over the GT, and wouldn't blow your wallet apart on upfront costs and upkeep. Compare that with the Z/28 which was $33,000 more and people wonder why it didn't sell well.
Virtually every Boss 302 made sold within 6 months or so of being on lots. Today there are STILL new Z/28's sitting on Chevy lots, even after 25% discounts and GM corporate practically begging people to buy it.

GM and their diehard fans are becoming increasingly inbred and self congratulatory, convinced that Americans will buy a Camaro at whatever price they see fit because they believe their own bullshit and the crap the magazines heap on it.

Well said!!! 1320 for president!!!

 

[legendary mustang]

The whole hysteria over the Z/28 has been absolutely silly. It's become a myth, whipped up by whispered stories by fans into something it wasn't.

"It really made about 500 horsepower" "It was the fastest Camaro ever in the 1st Generation" "It was above the SS in terms of trim and status" "No Mustang could ever compete"

Stuff like that, and it's not true, none of it. As a result, Chevy believed their own horseshit and felt they had to make the Z/28 utterly dominant and obliterating everything that came in its path. As a result you got an overpriced, over-equipped, uncomfortable, upkeep intensive (those trofeo R's) and one season only (summer) car that was entirely overgunned for your average "track day, bruh" events and HPDE sessions.

Look at what Ford did with the Boss 302. It was reasonably priced ($42,000 when a GT premium was about $36,000), offered a huge trackability upgrade over the GT, and wouldn't blow your wallet apart on upfront costs and upkeep. Compare that with the Z/28 which was $33,000 more and people wonder why it didn't sell well.
Virtually every Boss 302 made sold within 6 months or so of being on lots. Today there are STILL new Z/28's sitting on Chevy lots, even after 25% discounts and GM corporate practically begging people to buy it.

GM and their diehard fans are becoming increasingly inbred and self congratulatory, convinced that Americans will buy a Camaro at whatever price they see fit because they believe their own bullshit and the crap the magazines heap on it.

the CRAPMARO crew also said FORD never had a mustang that could out perform a camaro on the track.they ALWAYS forget the 2000 cobra R destroyed and SCRAPMARO on the track,and it took Garbage Motors over 12 years to respond to that car.:lol::cheers:fuck chevy!

 

[Hack]

Don't remember saying that they had not. Ford easily did a better roll out. But the fact that Chevy already has the SS, 1LE, ZL1, and Z/28 on the way is awesome!

Sorry if I was confusing to you. The subject came up earlier in the thread. I agree it will be fun to see all the reviews come up when the different versions of the Camaro are released.

 

[Trackaholic]

I'm still skeptical of a z/28 given that we don't have an engine for it. I would totally be expecting one if the C7 GS was revealed with a hi-po N/A v8, but since it has the same LT1 as all other vettes, I'm not sure what this z/28 will be using. Maybe it is an even more track focused version of the 1LE, but hat seems like overkill. Maybe GM will surprise me and release an upgraded LT1, in which case that would be a pretty awesome car. Interested to see what unfolds.

-T

 

[Childs Play]

I'm still skeptical of a z/28 given that we don't have an engine for it. I would totally be expecting one if the C7 GS was revealed with a hi-po N/A v8, but since it has the same LT1 as all other vettes, I'm not sure what this z/28 will be using. Maybe it is an even more track focused version of the 1LE, but hat seems like overkill. Maybe GM will surprise me and release an upgraded LT1, in which case that would be a pretty awesome car. Interested to see what unfolds.

-T

I'm wondering if they'll go with a Z28 type car this time instead of the all out wtf Z/28 track car like last time.

If that's the case we could see just a stripped down 1LE basically.

 

[ZaneWayne]

I'm wondering if they'll go with a Z28 type car this time instead of the all out wtf Z/28 track car like last time.

If that's the case we could see just a stripped down 1LE basically.

Yup. that would be awesome too. I am guessing they go the "Holy fuck its got carbon ceramic brakes and its $69k" route.

 

[Stage_3]

The whole hysteria over the Z/28 has been absolutely silly. It's become a myth, whipped up by whispered stories by fans into something it wasn't.
"It really made about 500 horsepower" "It was the fastest Camaro ever in the 1st Generation" "It was above the SS in terms of trim and status" "No Mustang could ever compete"
Stuff like that, and it's not true, none of it. As a result, Chevy believed their own horseshit and felt they had to make the Z/28 utterly dominant and obliterating everything that came in its path.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I always thought the Z28 was a better car than the Z28 in status and trim, level. As a former Camaro SS owner, I agree with you. Great post sir! :cheers:

 

[Childs Play]

Yup. that would be awesome too. I am guessing they go the "Holy fuck its got carbon ceramic brakes and its $69k" route.

People will buy it either way. Now a lot less will buy it at the higher price because they might as well splurge and get a Vette but meh. We'll see.

I have to agree with 1320' though on his long ran out post on most things though regarding the Z/28 and how people wanted this ridiculous road racing machine. Well. You get what you ask for sometimes and that's what they tried to build. Then people realized. Oh well shit. That's more expensive than I wanted. The Z/28 purists were happy but everyone else was thinking "lol no thanks I'll buy a Vette." And who could blame them at the $75k price tag. I still think the car was worth it for its time to the right people. However there were a lot less right people than originally intended. Even though the 2014 sold out before it even went on sale. They probably should have just made it a 1 year low production model and saved some money for the next gen. But what do I know...

The Z/28 was a bit overbuilt (although it was damn impressive for its price range at the time even if it was what most feel was overpriced) and there was a lot of nostalgia about it returning.

Back to the precious train of thought. (My ADD makes me digress.) The only thing that 1320' didn't mention was the difference between the Z/28 and the Z28. There is a difference. This one was the Z/28 which is supposed to be a "purists" road racing car if you will. Also the Z/28 was originally made for SCCA Trans-Am racing.
Whereas the Z28 was more the big engined Uncle Henry's mullet machine. And it handled well for the time.

The Z28 has usually been a bit above the SS, whether people want to argue about it or not. I've heard enough of Camaro guys whining about what's better so if you want to argue it here that's nothing new. But 1320' is right. It wasn't God's middle finger to every other vehicle on the road like some Chevy guys like to think.

tl;dr

I agree with 1320', just less harshly. Lol

 

[thePill]

The whole hysteria over the Z/28 has been absolutely silly. It's become a myth, whipped up by whispered stories by fans into something it wasn't.

"It really made about 500 horsepower" "It was the fastest Camaro ever in the 1st Generation" "It was above the SS in terms of trim and status" "No Mustang could ever compete"

Stuff like that, and it's not true, none of it. As a result, Chevy believed their own horseshit and felt they had to make the Z/28 utterly dominant and obliterating everything that came in its path. As a result you got an overpriced, over-equipped, uncomfortable, upkeep intensive (those trofeo R's) and one season only (summer) car that was entirely overgunned for your average "track day, bruh" events and HPDE sessions.

Look at what Ford did with the Boss 302. It was reasonably priced ($42,000 when a GT premium was about $36,000), offered a huge trackability upgrade over the GT, and wouldn't blow your wallet apart on upfront costs and upkeep. Compare that with the Z/28 which was $33,000 more and people wonder why it didn't sell well.
Virtually every Boss 302 made sold within 6 months or so of being on lots. Today there are STILL new Z/28's sitting on Chevy lots, even after 25% discounts and GM corporate practically begging people to buy it.

GM and their diehard fans are becoming increasingly inbred and self congratulatory, convinced that Americans will buy a Camaro at whatever price they see fit because they believe their own bullshit and the crap the magazines heap on it.

thePill tried to warn them months before the first test were out. Most of the improved performance was from the tires and larger footprint. No z28's were taken to the SCCA and the z28 could barely manage to inherit a Championship.

If Chevy doesn't have an engine to deal with the GT350, they just need to stay at home.


Looks like they may expand the upper grill somewhat to improve the cooling...


...that seems to be functioning just fine, except the stack of coolers on the zl1.

 

[Trackaholic]

People will buy it either way. Now a lot less will buy it at the higher price because they might as well splurge and get a Vette but meh. We'll see.

I have to agree with 1320' though on his long ran out post on most things though regarding the Z/28 and how people wanted this ridiculous road racing machine. Well. You get what you ask for sometimes and that's what they tried to build. Then people realized. Oh well shit. That's more expensive than I wanted. The Z/28 purists were happy but everyone else was thinking "lol no thanks I'll buy a Vette." And who could blame them at the $75k price tag. I still think the car was with it for its time to the right people. However there were a lot less right people than originally intended. Even though the 2014 sold out before it even went on sale. They probably should have just made it a 1 year low production model and saved some money for the next gen. But what do I know...

The Z/28 was a bit overbuilt (although it was damn impressive for its price range at the time even if it was what most feel was overpriced) and there was a lot of nostalgia about it returning.

Back to the precious train of thought. (My ADD makes me digress.) The only thing that 1320' didn't mention was the difference between the Z/28 and the Z28. There is a difference. This one was the Z/28 which is supposed to be a "purists" road racing car if you will. Also the Z/28 was originally made for SCCA Trans-Am racing.
Whereas the Z28 was more the big engined Uncle Henry's mullet machine. And it handled well for the time.

The Z28 has usually been a bit above the SS, whether people want to argue about it or not. I've heard enough of Camaro guys whining about what's better so if you want to argue it here that's nothing new. But 1320' is right. It wasn't God's middle finger to every other vehicle on the road like some Chevy guys like to think.

tl;dr

I agree with 1320', just less harshly. Lol

The 5th gen Z/28 was a great car, but overpriced by $10,000-$15,000 for what you were getting IMO. If you start with a 5th gen 1LE for $40,000, and then add the price difference between an LS3 and LS7 ($8750), add another $7000 for CCB's, and give $5000 for the shocks, then you are at $60,750. IMO the Z/28 should have been somewhere between $60,000 and $65,000. The $75,000 price just seemed far too high for what you were getting over their other offerings. And that $75,000 price made it more expensive than a C7 Z51. IMO the Z/28 was a better track car than the C7 Z51, but it was a tough argument to call it a better overall car.

-T

 

[02gtnh]

The 5th gen Z/28 was a great car, but overpriced by $10,000-$15,000 for what you were getting IMO. If you start with a 5th gen 1LE for $40,000, and then add the price difference between an LS3 and LS7 ($8750), add another $7000 for CCB's, and give $5000 for the shocks, then you are at $60,750. IMO the Z/28 should have been somewhere between $60,000 and $65,000. The $75,000 price just seemed far too high for what you were getting over their other offerings. And that $75,000 price made it more expensive than a C7 Z51. IMO the Z/28 was a better track car than the C7 Z51, but it was a tough argument to call it a better overall car.

-T

Totally agree. Another issue for the Z28 was, they made way to many. 500 for 2014 was good and should of stayed the same in 2015. But to build 2500 just flooded the market with a very limited market for that type of car and price.:cheers:

 

[Childs Play]

The 5th gen Z/28 was a great car, but overpriced by $10,000-$15,000 for what you were getting IMO. If you start with a 5th gen 1LE for $40,000, and then add the price difference between an LS3 and LS7 ($8750), add another $7000 for CCB's, and give $5000 for the shocks, then you are at $60,750. IMO the Z/28 should have been somewhere between $60,000 and $65,000. The $75,000 price just seemed far too high for what you were getting over their other offerings. And that $75,000 price made it more expensive than a C7 Z51. IMO the Z/28 was a better track car than the C7 Z51, but it was a tough argument to call it a better overall car.



-T

Yes but you can't just leave out design and labor for a small production vehicle which is quite higher than normal. It's not just a 1LE with a couple of slapped on changes. Plus you left out the different front and back seats (Recaros which were optional on everything else along the specialty back seats.) the suspension system design, which at the time, the Z/28 was only the second production car to ever use it. (The first was the stupidly expensive Aston Martin One 77. Don't believe me? Look it up.) The cost you said may be close but there was some tuning time going into that. And the slight change to the width of the vehicle plus the different back window and the aerodynamic changes plus a few other changes/go fast goodies. I'm not saying they didn't bump it up a few grand but I'm doubting after the design/parts/tuning time plus considering what profit they were attempting to make (can't just sell a vehicle at 0% markup from cost to build over X units.) you're not too far off the $75k asking price. Was it expensive? Sure. But I don't think Chevy was outright overcharging for them like most people will try to claim without understand what actually goes into making a vehicle. It was just that they went a bit overboard on the design which cost a lot more than if they had maybe taken a couple of steps back and maybe made some of the things optional. Your options were, what? A/C and a stereo? And you had to get one if you got the other. Lol

You basically had a land boat that was turned into a road racing maniac. That takes at least a decent amount of effort and cost.

tl;dr. Because Racecar.

 

[Childs Play]

Totally agree. Another issue for the Z28 was, they made way to many. 500 for 2014 was good and should of stayed the same in 2015. But to build 2500 just flooded the market with a very limited market for that type of car and price.:cheers:

Agreed. Should have kept it low like 2014. But they sold out of them super fast so maybe they thought they had something going? Who knows.

 

[Process]

Yeah, that's my thinking.

The Vette has usually been the entry point for high performance development, receives the higher output variant, and we just got a new model C7 (the GS), without a new NA motor.

GM seems like they've been pretty definite about not giving the Camaro more HP in a comparable product line. Heck, even the ZL1 has less HP than the C7Z06 - albeit a trivial difference.

To be honest, I was pretty surprised the GS didn't get a new motor, or at the very least a tweaked LT1 for another 25-ish or so HP bump (especially since they don't need to worry about bumping up near an NA Z06 any longer).

The GS in the C6 generation still had the base LS3, just the Z06 body, suspension, and brakes, just like this C7 generation does.

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