Squeaking/rubbing noise from rear, any ideas? (UPDATED WITH FIX!!!)

[Gibbo205]

Hi there

I've installed a part one at a time just in case this happened, but everything has gone so well, and tonight I hear an odd noise, so I wind both windows down and low and behold even over the smallest ripples in the road, not even bumps I am getting what sounds like squeaking/rubbing/creaking, of course if I hit a hole or bump the noise is louder. It is not a clunk, knock, rattle it is clearly the noise in my view of a bush making a rubbing noise.

At first I almost thought it sounds like wheels rubbing on the arches, but checked the tires and arches, there are zero signs of rubbing.

Luckily bouncing up and down on the rear creates the squeak/rub noise so fingers crossed pinning it down might not be too hard.


My car has:
BMR Delrin/Spherical vertical links (This was the culprit, the delrin bush to be specific)
BMR Cradle lockout kit CB005
Steeda differential bushing inserts (red ones installed)
FRPP Dampers with Steeda ultralite linear springs
15mm rear spacers
Stock GT PP wheels/tyres.
Stock sway bars


So anyone who has done any of the above did you notice after a few days any noise/squeaks coming from the rear, really only audible from the outside, so windows fully down etc?

Any ideas? My betting is on the vertical links and the delrin bushing or maybe a bolt that has not being clocked and re-tightened with suspension settled?

Luckily I was booked in for tomorrow morning at garage to check all the bolts etc. are still tight from installed the FRPP dampers and springs over a week ago.

Hope we find it, but be good to hear from anyone who has had any kind of rear-end squeak after installing the above no matter how minor. I cannot hear it inside the car but if I wind my windows both fully down I can hear it easily just driving along, only the smoothest roads do not cause it but even then roads with just little ripples cause it so I believe it is 100% not rubbing and more to do with rear suspension movement hence I am thinking vertical links especially as the lower bushing is delrin.

I also checked its not exhaust by shaking it from the rear but zero noise from it, so definetely rear moving suspension part in my opinion or the differential bushing inserts maybe.

Will keep you informed but should I start with vertical links?

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[Gibbo205]

P.S. Every part I have installed I have used generous amounts of energy suspension lub, so it is not because of lack of lube.

In hindsight this was maybe a bad idea now and is why whatever is causing this noise did not show up straight away. :(

 

[Gibbo205]

Hi there


So this morning I drove to the garage with both windows fully down to listen for this noise, really upsetting to hear my brand new car creaking/squeaking like an old banger over any kind of rough road surface, ripple, bump or hole (Windows closed the noise was not audible). :(

Anyway I was able to 100% pinpoint it as coming from the rear and more from UK passenger (left) side rather than right side though there did also seem to be some squeak/creaks from right side as well. Applying brakes or hand brake had no impact on the noise, so it was definetely a moving suspension component and most likely a bush.

So I arrived at the garage and ask them to listen as I drove on and off their ramp, thankfully it made the noise every time, they said this is 100% a bush and not from the damper and spring install they did last week.

At this point I was pretty much 100% certain it was the BMR Delrin/Spherical vertical links, I thought it might be these and as such I put my stock items in the trunk (boot in UK).

So the first thing we did, jack car up, let it down fast and low and behold the creak noise happened. I told the garage to undo the bolt on the lower vertical link, the delrin bush. We did this on left side, noise gone but a slight nose from right side, did it on the other side and noise completely gone.

So we removed the BMR vertical links and were rather shocked at what we saw:

This vertical link has being on the car for no more than 500 miles and about 2-3 weeks, yet it is already dry in areas and is coming apart. It is 100% the reason for the creaking/squeaking noise.

The spherical bearings at the top of the BMR link are absolutely fine, no noise and no signs of wear.

I hope Kelly from BMR can sort me out with some spherical bearings for my BMR vertical links as I was sold these as being NVH free and well they clearly are not.

This won't just effect BMR either, it is simply a case of Delrin bushes on the vertical links are a very bad idea on a car daily driven in all conditions, they will make noise and they will fail judging by how they are coming apart so young into their life.

BMR make great kit and Kelly has being superb so hoping he can sort me out a spherical bush for my link and my advice to anyone else buying vertical links DO MAKE SURE THEY ARE SPHERICAL AT BOTH ENDS.

Those who have delrin vertical links, drive around on rough roads with both your windows fully down, see if your car sounds like an old creaking boat. ;)


P.S. With the stock links installed the car is now completely silent both inside and outside.

 

[Doctor Fishtail]

WOW! This was on my list. Is there anybody else with this issue. I was set to purchase these when I do my next suspension day. Is this with all vertical links?

 

[Gibbo205]

WOW! This was on my list. Is there anybody else with this issue. I was set to purchase these when I do my next suspension day. Is this with all vertical links?

I would suggest it effects all vertical links that use delrin bushes, BMR offer a spherical/spherical, get that one.

Also bear in mind UK roads are harsher, rougher, salt on the roads, lots of rain etc. So us UK customers in a way are a far harsher test.

My car is completely silent now with the stock vertical links re-fitted.

 

[Doctor Fishtail]

I would suggest it effects all vertical links that use delrin bushes, BMR offer a spherical/spherical, get that one.

Also bear in mind UK roads are harsher, rougher, salt on the roads, lots of rain etc. So us UK customers in a way are a far harsher test.

My car is completely silent now with the stock vertical links re-fitted.

These?
http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=1502&superpro=0

 

[BMR Tech]

Before I respond to your PM, I will make this post.

First off, I would not necessarily set off an alarm for people with Delrin Bushed Vertical Links. While I am not a fan of them, and have posted many times that same statement - there are likely thousands of people on the road with Delrin bushed Vertical Links that are not having what I refer to as "excessive" NVH issues. Seeing that every company that offers them, uses Delrin (Steeda, UPR, SR Perf, Shiftteck, and our offerings TCA046/047) - you can bet there are plenty out there in use on the roads and race tracks.

Believe it or not, I am not really surprised that your Delrin bushings are showing the wear that you have pictured. Delrin, although rigid and brittle...is also pliable to an extent. Like any plastic, polymer, etc - it does not take much to scar the material. I would actually guess that 50% of people that install Delrin bushed vertical links scar the bushings during the installation.

In your specific case, you happen to have what I call "Excessive NVH"

One of the reasons we did not release these Delrin bushed vertical links before our bearing/bearing TCA045 versions was because of this exact issue, that can been seen in our product description for them:

***NOTE: When installing the TCA046 or TCA047 Vertical Links, BMR highly recommends specific supporting modifications to reduce toe and geometry change. Installing Delrin equipped Vertical Links without addressing the rear lower control arm front bushing and the toe knuckle bushing can increase the chance of excessive NVH and stress on parts. Calls our tech department for more information.***

I think most of us gearheads have been in this situation, where a more rigid aftermarket part has amplified or been the culprit of excessive NVH for one reason or another. Is your issue because of the NOTE above that we place in our description? Maybe, maybe not.

In closing, I will be happy to help you get into a set of bearings for the lower mounts. I will respond to your PM now ;)

 

[Gibbo205]

Before I respond to your PM, I will make this post.

First off, I would not necessarily set off an alarm for people with Delrin Bushed Vertical Links. While I am not a fan of them, and have posted many times that same statement - there are likely thousands of people on the road with Delrin bushed Vertical Links that are not having what I refer to as "excessive" NVH issues. Seeing that every company that offers them, uses Delrin (Steeda, UPR, SR Perf, Shiftteck, and our offerings TCA046/047) - you can bet there are plenty out there in use on the roads and race tracks.

Believe it or not, I am not really surprised that your Delrin bushings are showing the wear that you have pictured. Delrin, although rigid and brittle...is also pliable to an extent. Like any plastic, polymer, etc - it does not take much to scar the material. I would actually guess that 50% of people that install Delrin bushed vertical links scar the bushings during the installation.

In your specific case, you happen to have what I call "Excessive NVH"

One of the reasons we did not release these Delrin bushed vertical links before our bearing/bearing TCA045 versions was because of this exact issue, that can been seen in our product description for them:

I think most of us gearheads have been in this situation, where a more rigid aftermarket part has amplified or been the culprit of excessive NVH for one reason or another. Is your issue because of the NOTE above that we place in our description? Maybe, maybe not.

In closing, I will be happy to help you get into a set of bearings for the lower mounts. I will respond to your PM now ;)

Kelly as always thank you for great support, I think Delrin in warmer/dryer climates is fine.

But in the UK with all the rain and freezing weather, our authorities spread grit/salt on our roads to help prevent accidents, the downsides are this is no good for bushes on cars.

Look forward to getting the lower spherical bushes.

 

[Anthony@HTM]

Although I've had experience with Delrin, polyurethane and spherical bushings in the past it wasn't until I spoke to Kelly that I truly understood the pros and cons of each material.

On the rear of my car everything is spherical except for the OEM camber arms and I honestly don't notice any increase in nvh.

Also on another note I think that it's always best to contact the vendor or manufacturer before making claims about a product.

Unfortunately you will now have people who read the issue in this thread but will typically skip the solution/reasoning part.

In every platform I've ever owned I have always done this and have always had success.

I know you will enjoy the vertical links with spherical bearings much more!

 

[Jeff_oddo]

Check the vertical links. I had an annoying squeak and removed them and it went away. They've been off for over 1000 miles and no squeak

 

[dausmus]

I've had the same creak coming from my adjustable toe rods. annoying as hell but I haven't had time to get under the car try to grease them up and see if that helps any. it goes away in cooler (50 or less) weather and when raining but when it's warmer out and dry it creaks like non other. kind of embarrassing really.

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