XPlan Price Issue - URGENT

[Bikeman315]

The GM started to say they would just honor the original price we agree to, but then the sales manager came back saying “that’s not how it works, how we’ve been doing it recently is they have to pay the new price but I pull a DORA (all of a sudden everyone seems to know this terms now) and we submit it to ford.

Honestly at this I’m not sure if you’re real or not. How can you not see that you are getting screwed? Why did you even bother posting on here?

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[TheCarGuyNJ]

Honestly at this I’m not sure if you’re real or not. How can you not see that you are getting screwed? Why did you even bother posting on here?

I mean, I guess I appreciate the honesty. I’m in Florida, so the dealers around me all suck, and all like to play games. This dealer did me well on my trade, and I should get a check from them once the lien is released. So I wanted to try and give them the business on the car. They did after some pushback honor the $100 cap on dealer fees (they actually made it $75 after I mentioned a nearby dealer was doing $75. That other dealer was forcing a $1400 appearance package on every car, order or not, so I wasn’t going to go there).

In the grand scheme of things though, doesn’t the dealer have to honor the correct x-plan pricing for the vehicle at the time of order creation? When he did the calculation finally, he actually came out less than the ford build site was for xplan. It sounds like from the program terms they can’t change more, or less for that matter, so I may not even see the difference I have on my offer sheet. I think as long as the dealer can’t play games with the price, I will be fine here. Maybe I’m crazy I guess. But I also only had until Aug 1st to put the order in in order to lock in the $1000 retail order rebate.

 

[Lgb0250]

The only thing that matters at this point is that you are happy. Did you at least get a good deal on the Stinger?

 

[TheCarGuyNJ]

The only thing that matters at this point is that you are happy. Did you at least get a good deal on the Stinger?

I appreciate the kindness, thank you. I’m beyond happy with the sale of my old car. I would up getting $53k for the stinger 2022 GT2 Scorpion (paid less than that new), which is a really good offer considering how the market has been changed in the last few weeks. I do have some concerns about the dealer honoring their word/signed offer sheet when I comes time for delivery, but I guess time will tell. I at least have an order placed, with XPlan (which from my understand the dealer can’t really play around with - we will see), and I got my dealer fees of $1300 reduced down to $75. No dealer add ons either.

Had it not been for the GM, I would have left. The sales manager or new car manager, whoever it was, was just terrible. My one and only concern is how pricing will play out. Regarding the DORA, or I know someone else mentioned they don’t use DORA anymore, how can I get a concrete number for my order. Should I contact Ford? Or, despite what the dealer says, will they be receiving an “order submission/receipt” sheet that shows all the confirmed packages, along with actual a/z/d/x plan pricing?

 

[Cobra Jet]

I'm just gonna add some Pennie's here...

X-Plan isn't "the best" pricing, in fact and don't take offense to this comment, but you could have done a better deal without X-plan... Everyone thinks x-plan is the shiznit, but it's not, really it isn't.

The other thing too: you revealed your cards way ahead of the game and didn't have any poker face....

What I mean by that is, you should not have revealed to them that you had ANY trade in at all. You should have bargained for the absolute best pricing they were willing to do, then said "ok, let me think about it" and walked. Then researched more to see IF you were REALLY getting a deal or not (and x-plan or not) by shopping other Dealers. Yes it's a hassle to do it like that, but don't EVER let your buying emotions get the best of you, because you're fogged and the Dealer is taking advantage of you at that time.

After you get their absolute best price and YOU are siatusifed with that figure and they work up the papers, THEN spring it on them "you know what, I have decided that I'm going to trade my car in, you folks have been good to me"... At THAT stage of the game - YOU have them, you're on top - because NOW they already gave you their best pricing, the numbers in plain view that you both agreed to already. NOW they have to plug your trade in value which will now decrease the sale even further, and will impact the taxes on the sale too.... They also have to give you fair offer for your trade and now YOU can haggle them as to a fair trade in value YOU want.

Florida or not - car buying is the same everywhere - the tricks, the scams, the loaded figures, the hidden fees, the hidden loan ratios, their hidden cut %, their BS lines about giving invoice price to not giving invoice, etc etc etc etc....

I think you should shop other dealers and see if you can get a better deal....

 

[AvalancheSVT]

I'm just gonna add some Pennie's here...

X-Plan isn't "the best" pricing, in fact and don't take offense to this comment, but you could have done a better deal without X-plan... Everyone thinks x-plan is the shiznit, but it's not, really it isn't.

The other thing too: you revealed your cards way ahead of the game and didn't have any poker face....

the best way to reset this is just to walk away. all you have to do is A. figure out what is fair B. stick to it C. wait for them to crack. they will, it might take a while or you might have to shop your deal to another dealer but somebody will take the offer if its reasonable.

i love beating lying scumbag car salesmen with the truth. not all of em are that way but the stereotypes exist for a reason.

 

[TheCarGuyNJ]

I'm just gonna add some Pennie's here...

X-Plan isn't "the best" pricing, in fact and don't take offense to this comment, but you could have done a better deal without X-plan... Everyone thinks x-plan is the shiznit, but it's not, really it isn't.

The other thing too: you revealed your cards way ahead of the game and didn't have any poker face....

What I mean by that is, you should not have revealed to them that you had ANY trade in at all. You should have bargained for the absolute best pricing they were willing to do, then said "ok, let me think about it" and walked. Then researched more to see IF you were REALLY getting a deal or not (and x-plan or not) by shopping other Dealers. Yes it's a hassle to do it like that, but don't EVER let your buying emotions get the best of you, because you're fogged and the Dealer is taking advantage of you at that time.

After you get their absolute best price and YOU are siatusifed with that figure and they work up the papers, THEN spring it on them "you know what, I have decided that I'm going to trade my car in, you folks have been good to me"... At THAT stage of the game - YOU have them, you're on top - because NOW they already gave you their best pricing, the numbers in plain view that you both agreed to already. NOW they have to plug your trade in value which will now decrease the sale even further, and will impact the taxes on the sale too.... They also have to give you fair offer for your trade and now YOU can haggle them as to a fair trade in value YOU want.

Florida or not - car buying is the same everywhere - the tricks, the scams, the loaded figures, the hidden fees, the hidden loan ratios, their hidden cut %, their BS lines about giving invoice price to not giving invoice, etc etc etc etc....

I think you should shop other dealers and see if you can get a better deal....

I appreciate the advice here. In this case, it was definitely different than my past dealings. I actually was shopping cash offers for my car first. Once I noticed Carvana and Vroom offers tanking, I starting looking around and came across the Carfax history based value/offer. The offer/value was higher than KBB and Carvana. One deal said they would do “up to $5k more than the Carfax value” (I’m not an idiot, I knew that was a scam), then of course they offered $3k less than the original value/offer shown. This dealer, offered “more” than the offer, but wanted to see it first. They tried screwing me also, but then the woman I was working with and the GM stepped up big time, and wound up offering almost $2k more than the original offer/value. The trade deal was a very fair deal to say the least. In Florida, they claimed that a trade can’t be done at order creation (for thetax credit), so my options were to sell the car to them for cash now, or wait and trade it when I take delivery (and the value is most definitely going to be significantly worse- but I’d get the tax credit. So I lost the tax credit, but I firmly believe I got thousands more than I would have gotten elsewhere, and way more than I would have gotten 3-4 months from now at delivery.

Regarding xplan, I totally agree with you there. I usually only buy used (1-2years old), and have never even considered using xplan before, and I’ve worked for the same company for almost 10 years. Unfortunately in todays market, and in Florida, it really is difficult to score a deal. They try to shove dealer fees and add-on packages (let’s not forget the “lifetime power train warranty”). I scored a great deal on the Kia when I bought it, retail/lot car (well they had to trade a dealer for it -but still), no employee discount program or anything, low dealer fee. On the fords though, every dealer around here seems to be the same. Lot cars are selling for msrp (or have market adjustments if the dealer is really that bad) plus dealer fee, plus package (some are good about not forcing the packages though), if you want xplan, they’ll only do it on ordered cars. I contemplated going with one of the out of state preferred dealers from the from the forum, but I got a great deal on the sale of my old car, around $3k off the car with Xplan, a $1000 rebate for ordering, and a $75 dealer fee without too much arguing/negotiating needed.

in the end, as long as the deal/numbers I got today are honored, I saved about $5k on the car (yes I know, I only saved about $4k, and the $1k I “should have been able to negotiate off myself”)

 

[Bikeman315]

I mean, I guess I appreciate the honesty. I’m in Florida, so the dealers around me all suck, and all like to play games. This dealer did me well on my trade, and I should get a check from them once the lien is released. So I wanted to try and give them the business on the car. They did after some pushback honor the $100 cap on dealer fees (they actually made it $75 after I mentioned a nearby dealer was doing $75. That other dealer was forcing a $1400 appearance package on every car, order or not, so I wasn’t going to go there).

In the grand scheme of things though, doesn’t the dealer have to honor the correct x-plan pricing for the vehicle at the time of order creation? When he did the calculation finally, he actually came out less than the ford build site was for xplan. It sounds like from the program terms they can’t change more, or less for that matter, so I may not even see the difference I have on my offer sheet. I think as long as the dealer can’t play games with the price, I will be fine here. Maybe I’m crazy I guess. But I also only had until Aug 1st to put the order in in order to lock in the $1000 retail order rebate.

I'm sorry if I came off a little harsh but I just hate seeing people being taken advantage of. There is just too much back and forth between the GM & managers to believe the financial outcome of this transaction is going to go smoothly. You have nothing legally in writing that gives you any protection whatsoever. And until this happens, yes, they can play every game in their arsenal.

And by the way, you're not crazy, just a guy looking to get a good deal on a car. Unfortunately that is a very difficult thing to do these days.

And CJ, the getting a better deal than X-Plan disappeared a year ago. With many dealers charging MSRP, and worse ADM's, X-Plan right now is a good deal.

 

[Bikeman315]

in the end, as long as the deal/numbers I got today are honored

Only if you get them in writing in a legal document. Otherwise the odds of this happening are slim and none.

 

[gimmie11s]

Lol @ this thread

 

[AvalancheSVT]

in the end, as long as the deal/numbers I got today are honored, I saved about $5k on the car (yes I know, I only saved about $4k, and the $1k I “should have been able to negotiate off myself”)

it probably won't be. dealers lie to you to get you there so they can sink their fangs in or maybe they agree to price + TTL then they jam all kinds of NOT TTL crap into TTL.

that happened when i went up to sign the first time.

i emailed the owner and the GM called me up with some very reasonable terms the next day.

 

[TheCarGuyNJ]

I'm sorry if I came off a little harsh but I just hate seeing people being taken advantage of. There is just too much back and forth between the GM & managers to believe the financial outcome of this transaction is going to go smoothly. You have nothing legally in writing that gives you any protection whatsoever. And until this happens, yes, they can play every game in their arsenal.

And by the way, you're not crazy, just a guy looking to get a good deal on a car. Unfortunately that is a very difficult thing to do these days.

And CJ, the getting a better deal than X-Plan disappeared a year ago. With many dealers charging MSRP, and worse ADM's, X-Plan right now is a good deal.

lol you’re good. I guess my overall question here… is that with me using XPlan here, the dealer can’t just charge whatever they want, right? So at least I’m somewhat protected there. Price protection is a thing, so I believe I will be protect there as well. Yes, the price they provided is actually less than the xplan price showing on Ford’s builder(not by much though), so they may not honor that difference, but as long as they honor xplan and I get price protection. of course, they very well could try to play games with the dealer fee/addons, but they didn’t seem to put up a fight with that, it was really just the xplan price that they were being shady about.

I think I’ll be alright. But of course to all of your points, only time will tell (unless i try ordering from a different dealer of course).

 

[Germansheperd]

WALK AWAY! They either don't know what they are doing or are trying to screw you over.

They don't use DORA anymore, they use Web Based Dealer Ordering system and they should be able to give you a screen shot print out of it while you are there.

In "normal" times you can often beat X-Plan prices, probably not at most dealers now. The thing the dealer don't like is that it limits the fees they can charge you, that is why lots of dealers won't take it.

This is exactly half of it right here. X-plan they can only charge $100 Doc Fee. A&Z plan they can only charge $75.
Some dealers charge up to $900 for doc fees.
Then there is the loss of profit on X-plan.

 

[jjsotolongo]

lol you’re good. I guess my overall question here… is that with me using XPlan here, the dealer can’t just charge whatever they want, right? So at least I’m somewhat protected there. Price protection is a thing, so I believe I will be protect there as well. Yes, the price they provided is actually less than the xplan price showing on Ford’s builder(not by much though), so they may not honor that difference, but as long as they honor xplan and I get price protection. of course, they very well could try to play games with the dealer fee/addons, but they didn’t seem to put up a fight with that, it was really just the xplan price that they were being shady about.

I think I’ll be alright. But of course to all of your points, only time will tell (unless i try ordering from a different dealer of course).

I am in Florida too. South Florida specifically. I can sympathize with the crap service most dealers down here are providing these days. Like I mentioned I had to shop around here just for X-plan pricing. Not even my local dealer which I purchased two other Mustangs From and had them serviced there could be bothered to even try. Maybe in other parts of the country you can get better deals, but not enough to warrant the plane ticket or time it would take for a deal like that to make sense if you can get X-plan.

To answer your questions: X-plan is a set price, and has a limit on fees that can be charged.

Price protection is a different story. The dealer is charged (and therefore what you are supposed to pay) when the car is invoiced. There could be a price increase between when you sign the papers and when the invoicing happens.

Price protection is really up to Ford. So far this year Ford has been honoring original pricing by giving dealers the difference in sale price to invoice price at the time the order was confirmed. This is dependent on the sale being a retail order and also that the original person who placed the order is the one who takes delivery of the vehicle. This was the case for the price increases earlier this year around April. I’ve heard of some dealers down here allowing customers to buy the vehicle for the original price, and other doing what yours is.

If we don’t get anymore price increases then this doesn’t matter. I suspect we won’t since most of the price increases have been released in the media well in advance, and all had clear “cut-off” dates for price protection. That or if we do get another increase your order should easily qualify for the price protection assuming Ford continues it.

Either way good luck with your purchase. You have way more faith in your dealer than I did with what I saw going on down here.

 

[TheCarGuyNJ]

I am in Florida too. South Florida specifically. I can sympathize with the crap service most dealers down here are providing these days. Like I mentioned I had to shop around here just for X-plan pricing. Not even my local dealer which I purchased two other Mustangs From and had them serviced there could be bothered to even try. Maybe in other parts of the country you can get better deals, but not enough to warrant the plane ticket or time it would take for a deal like that to make sense if you can get X-plan.

To answer your questions: X-plan is a set price, and has a limit on fees that can be charged.

Price protection is a different story. The dealer is charged (and therefore what you are supposed to pay) when the car is invoiced. There could be a price increase between when you sign the papers and when the invoicing happens.

Price protection is really up to Ford. So far this year Ford has been honoring original pricing by giving dealers the difference in sale price to invoice price at the time the order was confirmed. This is dependent on the sale being a retail order and also that the original person who placed the order is the one who takes delivery of the vehicle. This was the case for the price increases earlier this year around April. I’ve heard of some dealers down here allowing customers to buy the vehicle for the original price, and other doing what yours is.

If we don’t get anymore price increases then this doesn’t matter. I suspect we won’t since most of the price increases have been released in the media well in advance, and all had clear “cut-off” dates for price protection. That or if we do get another increase your order should easily qualify for the price protection assuming Ford continues it.

Either way good luck with your purchase. You have way more faith in your dealer than I did with what I saw going on down here.

I mean I do have the option of canceling the order and going elsewhere of course, but I would need to literally find a different dealer and get a deal in place tomorrow (in order to still get the order rebate).

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