WOT Spark Advance/Tuning ?'s

[daniel_94kg]

So I have very very little computer/tuning knowledge, but I plugged my SCT X4 in and took the car on a joy ride since it was nice out. My car has a custom tune. I noticed with the tune I have I can adjust the WOT Spark advance, but then only have the option to retard the engines timing on my X4.

Anyway, I did a 3rd gear pull from 2800-6800rpm and the spark advance was 21.5-22.0 at WOT all the way up. I've been reading that 25-26 is what tuners "target". Would the car perform differently by adding a few degrees? I've said from day 1 that I got this tune that the car isn't performing to its potential with the mods I have. My car has always been filled with 93 octane since I bought the car. I doubt I'll mess with the settings, but just looking to see what someone with some knowledge thinks. I'm going to probably go back out tomorrow and record a few datalogs since I just figured out how to do that.

Sponsored

 

[Poppacapp]

So I have very very little computer/tuning knowledge, but I plugged my SCT X4 in and took the car on a joy ride since it was nice out. My car has a custom tune. I noticed with the tune I have I can adjust the WOT Spark advance, but then only have the option to retard the engines timing on my X4.

Anyway, I did a 3rd gear pull from 2800-6800rpm and the spark advance was 21.5-22.0 at WOT all the way up. I've been reading that 25-26 is what tuners "target". Would the car perform differently by adding a few degrees? I've said from day 1 that I got this tune that the car isn't performing to its potential with the mods I have. My car has always been filled with 93 octane since I bought the car. I doubt I'll mess with the settings, but just looking to see what someone with some knowledge thinks. I'm going to probably go back out tomorrow and record a few datalogs since I just figured out how to do that.

If you have no tuning knowledge, do not mess with the tune. Spark advance a tuner dials in can vary depending on what your datalogs show etc. Yours might have had knock at 25 degrees. I would not mess with it.

 

[daniel_94kg]

If you have no tuning knowledge, do not mess with the tune. Spark advance a tuner dials in can vary depending on what your datalogs show etc. Yours might have had knock at 25 degrees. I would not mess with it.

No, I'm not going to be making any changes to it at all, just trying to understand it more is all. I have mechanical knowledge, but I just haven't advanced the timing on a car since it used to be remove one bolt and turn the distributor while using a timing light is all so all this other terminology Im new to. Main reason is I'm thinking about going with a tune from Lund or something. I'm tired of seeing cars with less mods make more power..

 

[Grimace427]

Spark advance is dependent on the fuel octane and several other variables. Spark advance is not a set number in the tune but rather the PCM can and will advance timing as much as possible on it's own before it detects knock. If you advance it further you will likely damage the engine.

Main reason is I'm thinking about going with a tune from Lund or something. I'm tired of seeing cars with less mods make more power..

What other guys put down on their local dynos is completely irrelevant to you. Dyno numbers are only numbers and cannot be compared unless the cars were run on the same dyno on the same day.

 

[Stanginva]

What other guys put down on their local dynos is completely irrelevant to you. Dyno numbers are only numbers and cannot be compared unless the cars were run on the same dyno on the same day.

This x1000. Track times are much more telling than dyno numbers.

 

[Plimmer]

So I have very very little computer/tuning knowledge, but I plugged my SCT X4 in and took the car on a joy ride since it was nice out. My car has a custom tune. I noticed with the tune I have I can adjust the WOT Spark advance, but then only have the option to retard the engines timing on my X4.

Anyway, I did a 3rd gear pull from 2800-6800rpm and the spark advance was 21.5-22.0 at WOT all the way up. I've been reading that 25-26 is what tuners "target". Would the car perform differently by adding a few degrees? I've said from day 1 that I got this tune that the car isn't performing to its potential with the mods I have. My car has always been filled with 93 octane since I bought the car. I doubt I'll mess with the settings, but just looking to see what someone with some knowledge thinks. I'm going to probably go back out tomorrow and record a few datalogs since I just figured out how to do that.

22.0 does seem a little conservative for an NA car. I'm not sure what stock is, but as these guys said the ECU will calculated spark advance based on a number of factors including Intake Air Temp, Engine Temp and Knock Retard, so you should check it a few more times, like first thing in the morning when the air is nice and cool and the engine hasn't heat soaked.

 

[Obsol3te]

So I have very very little computer/tuning knowledge, but I plugged my SCT X4 in and took the car on a joy ride since it was nice out. My car has a custom tune. I noticed with the tune I have I can adjust the WOT Spark advance, but then only have the option to retard the engines timing on my X4.

Anyway, I did a 3rd gear pull from 2800-6800rpm and the spark advance was 21.5-22.0 at WOT all the way up. I've been reading that 25-26 is what tuners "target". Would the car perform differently by adding a few degrees? I've said from day 1 that I got this tune that the car isn't performing to its potential with the mods I have. My car has always been filled with 93 octane since I bought the car. I doubt I'll mess with the settings, but just looking to see what someone with some knowledge thinks. I'm going to probably go back out tomorrow and record a few datalogs since I just figured out how to do that.

What are you making with the mods you have? Without the CAI my car is only making 415whp... :/ I don't know why my car is detecting knock... I had the car in the air the other day and the only part of the exhaust that is touching anything is the drivers side tip against the fucking valence that I can't fix. I've changed fuel stations because I hear Shell uses a lot of detergents and can lower the octane rating... I bought an Oil Separator to stop blow by.
Thinking about removing the mufflers and seeing if it still shows knock activity on the data-log

 

[Plimmer]

Part throttle knock is usually not an issue and light knock is probably normal as the ECU tries to advance timing for best fuel economy.

WOT knock is something to pay attention to. If you have constant knock at WOT then your tune is off or you have bad gas. If you have a little WOT knock and it decays to zero as rpm climbs, then probably also normal.

 

[daniel_94kg]

What are you making with the mods you have? Without the CAI my car is only making 415whp... :/ I don't know why my car is detecting knock... I had the car in the air the other day and the only part of the exhaust that is touching anything is the drivers side tip against the fucking valence that I can't fix. I've changed fuel stations because I hear Shell uses a lot of detergents and can lower the octane rating... I bought an Oil Separator to stop blow by.
Thinking about removing the mufflers and seeing if it still shows knock activity on the data-log

Just so others know we used the same dyno a few days apart with damn near the same weather, , I have a JLT + Long tubes, no cats, full 3" exhaust, I made 402whp, he doesnt have an intake he says and made 415. Not to mention my mph in the 1/4 mile went down by two mph when switching from CAN to custom tune. I'm mainly trying to educate myself with what some of the settings do/mean that can be adjusted, because I believe the tune is just way on the conservative side.
ive always used BP or Exxon stations down here, or the gas on post and every now and again I'll throw pure gas 93 octane in it. There's a few places that have it, One I use is in Vander(east Fayetteville)

 

[daniel_94kg]

22.0 does seem a little conservative for an NA car. I'm not sure what stock is, but as these guys said the ECU will calculated spark advance based on a number of factors including Intake Air Temp, Engine Temp and Knock Retard, so you should check it a few more times, like first thing in the morning when the air is nice and cool and the engine hasn't heat soaked.

now that I know how to datalog I'm going to do it a bunch in different conditions. I enjoy learning about this stuff, seeing how the car differs depending on conditions. I was doing WOT pulls as the sun was on the way down so the temp dropped into the mid/lower 70s from mid 90s. Between both temps it was 21-22 the whole time. but like I've said a few times already I, myself, am not going to be making any adjustments to it

 

[craigsix]

Just so others know we used the same dyno a few days apart with damn near the same weather, , I have a JLT + Long tubes, no cats, full 3" exhaust, I made 402whp, he doesnt have an intake he says and made 415. Not to mention my mph in the 1/4 mile went down by two mph when switching from CAN to custom tune. I'm mainly trying to educate myself with what some of the settings do/mean that can be adjusted, because I believe the tune is just way on the conservative side.
ive always used BP or Exxon stations down here, or the gas on post and every now and again I'll throw pure gas 93 octane in it. There's a few places that have it, One I use is in Vander(east Fayetteville)

do you keep track of air temp and d/a at the track? that could be your 2mph if its hotter and the d/a is higher.

 

[Grimace427]

do you keep track of air temp and d/a at the track? that could be your 2mph if its hotter and the d/a is higher.

This is a good possibility and something a lot of people don't pay much attention to.

 

[daniel_94kg]

do you keep track of air temp and d/a at the track? that could be your 2mph if its hotter and the d/a is higher.

This is a good possibility and something a lot of people don't pay much attention to.

There's no way I lost 2mph from one Friday to the next with almost identical weather. I've ran many passes but never 2+mph slower in a weeks difference with similar weather with many different cars. I said it as soon as I got the tune I'm running that the car just hadn't gained much/any power. I had a friend of mine who knows much more than I read some of the data logs and he told me to put 2 degrees in it, take it for a quick spin. The car freaking ripped down the road way better than before, especially after 5k rpm, with 23-23.5* spark at WOT. I set it back to its original setting but this basically confirmed for me that there's more power in the car and I just need to get a better tune until my Paxton install comes.

 

[Poppacapp]

do you keep track of air temp and d/a at the track? that could be your 2mph if its hotter and the d/a is higher.

This is a good possibility and something a lot of people don't pay much attention to.

This... if you go to the track, be sure to record the weather conditions on each timeslip so you can keep track. I use an app on my Android called Density Altitude calculator. It pulls weather data from the nearest airport to you to show you your DA.

Sponsored