Worst Used Cars - C&R

[GT Pony]

The article says "These vehicles have records of much worse than average reliability, based on subscriber responses to our annual auto survey".

I can see how it got that rating based on some of the problems seen posted on this chat board. If their sample size isn't very big then it wouldn't take many complaints to bring the score down.

Sponsored

 

[TomcatDriver]

based on subscriber responses

Not exactly a random sample. That being said, people are used to some pretty reliable vehicles these days. A Honda or Toyota going 150K+ without anything more than oil changes is not unusual (I've had a few).

 

[TheReaper]

Forget about CR. You know more about your car than they ever will. With that being said…

You may disagree with the opinion of Consumer Reports. However, you have to admit that there are a multitude of different issues with our cars that have yet to be resolved. Most of them could have and should have been worked out prior to the cars leaving the factory. If you spend a couple of hours going through the "Issues, Repairs, Warranty, TSB, Recalls" section of this forum you will find a multitude of different Mustang issues as most of you are aware of. MY major beef is the wheel hop and this was my major motivation for writing the post.

1. Driveshaft vibration from 50 to 70 miles an hour is completely unacceptable, and as we have learned can be dangerous. This is not limited to a FMY issue either. On this site- 79% of owners who responded to that poll had some driveline vibration issues.
2. Misaligned body panels
3. Air conditioning evaporator defect
4. We ranted and raved about having an independent IRS for the S550. Fu***** yay. Meanwhile the wheel hop on this car is completely ridiculous. It's akin to a grown adult having a grand mal seizure every time I try to launch. I just came out of a 2015 Camaro 2SS 1LE so perhaps I am a little bit jaded, but not being able to hook up off the line on a car that is meant for performance is utterly absurd. The "Stop the Hop" packages from both BMR and Steeda should have been stock from the factory- especially for the performance package. And to be told that the cradle lockout kit "might not solve the wheel hop" is discouraging to say the least. I cannot even imagine driving a 550 without the performance package ( with all due respect).
5. Factory paint defects. Again, I have never heard of this with any other car that has been manufactured on such a large scale basis as this car.
6. This is my 27th car in my life and I have had my fair share of problems throughout the years. I just did not expect to have this many problems with a nearly brand new car. You also have to admit that the resale really does suck. The sticker on my car was 42,000 and I paid 28,000 for it with 8000 miles on it. I can't complain about that and overall I think it is a great car. This is my sixth mustang- I had a 90, 91, 92, 96 and 2012. I will likely find myself in another Mustang in the future, however, I will be doing a little bit more research next time. On the brighter side I have a much grater understanding of the Lemon Law and the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

Let the bashing begin.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"- Evelyn Beatrice Haall

Damn, I hope they fix these issues on the 2018.

 

[AppoTheApple]

I haven't had any of the issues that people are complaining about except that the paint is so thin. I somehow have road rash on edge of my hood by my windshield lol.

 

[Maggneto]

I apologize for whatever I said that made you catch feelings. I didn't realize this was such a sensitive subject for some people. I only hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

To the topic at hand, those issues, from my understanding, were not limited to modified ecoboosts. I'm pretty sure I've seen a handful of people on this forum mention blown ecoboosts that were stock.

Anyways, I'm not doubting that CR is getting their data from somewhere. From what I can tell, they are a pretty reliable source of certain information. But unless someone can point me to exactly what that data is and what problems they're referring to (maybe they said in their write-up on the Mustang?), I can only speculate. You seem to be doing the same.

You are clearly uninformed, confused, and making shit up. You have no clue so just be a 5.0 cheerleader and leave it at that. This thread has plenty of information on problems owners have with the Mustang that caused the CR low rating and it has nothing to do with modified engines. By the way, are you aware that the GT350 is the only S550 to be taken off the shelf because of fire issues? I guess watching your unmodified/OEM car, hopefully with no one inside, burn to the ground is not a "serious reliability" issue is that correct?

It is your understanding that unmodified EB engines are blowing up? Really. Feel free to post links to the unmodified EB engines failure threads so we can all be as uninformed and up to date as you.

As far as contributing to this thread, let's recap.

Maggneto contribution:

"The CR rating has absolutely nothing to do with modified EB engines that went tits up. The rating is based on items shared between all the models like gear box, drive line vibration,, sync, etc. Didn't Ford stop selling the GT350 because of fire issues? The EB was never recalled or halted."

"There is no doubt that Ford can do a much better job regarding the quality, fit and finish of the Mustang. I have had body alignment issues, small paint imperfections, squealing brakes (PP) TSB, Under car heat shield, door latch recall (Open), and now there is an electrical issue where the gauge lights will delay in lighting and the back up beep changes to a different sounding beep. This greatly exceeds any new or certified car I have owned."



RocketGuy (I am going to guess you are not Rocket Scientist )

"The only reliability issues I've heard about are with the Ecoboost. It's possible I've missed something, but I thought the GT was pretty solid."

 

[Norm Peterson]

Consumer Reports best and worst used cars issue just showed up.

On the list of 'worst' used cars: 2015 / 2016 Mustang.

The article says "These vehicles have records of much worse than average reliability, based on subscriber responses to our annual auto survey".

At best, CR is just another data point. And for cars in particular, you shouldn't be reading nearly as much into the monthly articles as some of you are.

CR has to be driving them hard enough to get their test results, though that probably does not describe the driving for the rest of their evaluation - which is still going to be average-consumer oriented rather than enthusiast-centered.

You need to wait for the annual "Buying Guide" edition that goes into detail. Here's what the 2017 Guide reported ↓↓↓ . You'll note that in most categories for the 2015 the rating is two chevrons up. Only two categories are one chevron up, and only one is 'neutral' (neither up nor down). The neutral rating corresponds to a 3% rate of reported problems within any given category. Better than 2% gets one thumb up, less than 1% gets two thumbs up.

FWIW, I can't see how in hell they came up with two thumbs down as a bottom-line verdict when there's nothing below 'neutral' anywhere in the details. Look at other years for other inconsistencies between the verdict and the details, and inconsistencies relative to the 2015 column.

Norm

 

[15GTBEN]

I've owned several Mustang GT's over the years (since the early 90's)and overall reliability has never been an issue; however, each one has had quirky little issues (steering not straight, control arm noise, rattles, rear gear noise, engine tick..) but never anything major.

Consumer reports can be taken with a grain of salt imo.

 

[Sl13cobra]

You are clearly uninformed, confused, and making shit up. You have no clue so just be a 5.0 cheerleader and leave it at that. This thread has plenty of information on problems owners have with the Mustang that caused the CR low rating and it has nothing to do with modified engines. By the way, are you aware that the GT350 is the only S550 to be taken off the shelf because of fire issues? I guess watching your unmodified/OEM car, hopefully with no one inside, burn to the ground is not a "serious reliability" issue is that correct?

It is your understanding that unmodified EB engines are blowing up? Really. Feel free to post links to the unmodified EB engines failure threads so we can all be as uninformed and up to date as you.

As far as contributing to this thread, let's recap.

Maggneto contribution:

"The CR rating has absolutely nothing to do with modified EB engines that went tits up. The rating is based on items shared between all the models like gear box, drive line vibration,, sync, etc. Didn't Ford stop selling the GT350 because of fire issues? The EB was never recalled or halted."

"There is no doubt that Ford can do a much better job regarding the quality, fit and finish of the Mustang. I have had body alignment issues, small paint imperfections, squealing brakes (PP) TSB, Under car heat shield, door latch recall (Open), and now there is an electrical issue where the gauge lights will delay in lighting and the back up beep changes to a different sounding beep. This greatly exceeds any new or certified car I have owned."



RocketGuy (I am going to guess you are not Rocket Scientist )

"The only reliability issues I've heard about are with the Ecoboost. It's possible I've missed something, but I thought the GT was pretty solid."

What he said.

Lots of small and larger issues on the 6th gen cars.

Some people ARE talking a lot of B.S. around here, it would take too much time to address it all.

We're only 2 years into the new platform ('17s just under way in earnest). Some issues are to be expected. With that said, those who buy cars in the first couple years of a new vehicle should expect them.

But with that said, I'm disappointed in some of what I've seen. For example, body panel alignment shouldn't be all that hard to get right.

 

[EcoSwag1990]

Reliability has nothing whatsoever to do with body panel alignment or squeaky brakes

 

[Sl13cobra]

Reliability has nothing whatsoever to do with body panel alignment or squeaky brakes

Reliability is a function of quality control; design, parts, assembly, etc. So is misalignment of body panels.

 

[CompOface]

Reliability is a function of quality control; design, parts, assembly, etc. So is misalignment of body panels.

I've never heard anybody unable to make it to where they are going because of bad body panel alignment or squeaky breaks. These have nothing to do with reliability

 

[Maggneto]

Reliability has nothing whatsoever to do with body panel alignment or squeaky brakes

I've never heard anybody unable to make it to where they are going because of bad body panel alignment or squeaky breaks. These have nothing to do with reliability

Anything that needs to be addressed by the vendor is a reliability issue and is counted against the vendor in the CR report. Reliability is not just engine components, it encompasses the entire car. Body alignment and brakes are absolutely a part of the overall reliability of a car. Engine reliability is a sub category of the overall reliability.

reliable

'consistently good in quality or performance; able to be trusted"

 

[Sl13cobra]

How Does CR Get Its Reliability Information?

Where is the data from?

Consumer Reports obtains its reliability data from an Annual Questionnaire that is sent to subscribers to ConsumerReports.org and Consumer Reports magazine. In all, the survey was sent to subscribers in 2016, and we received responses on over half a million vehicles.


How is the survey conducted?

The Consumer Reports National Research Center conducts the survey each spring. In the questionnaire, we ask subscribers to note any problems with their cars that occurred in the past 12 months. They are asked to identify problems that they considered serious (because of cost, failure, safety, or downtime). We ask them to include problems covered by warranty, but not the ones resulting from accident damage or due solely to recall. Respondents check off problems from a list of trouble areas, ranging from the engine and transmission to climate system, brakes, electrical system, and power accessories. They also tell us specifically what their experiences were to help us understand precisely what problems they are having. See the full list of trouble spots.


How current is the data?

All our reliability information is completely updated annually. We begin sending out each year's survey in the spring. By late summer, we have collected and organized responses, and we complete our analysis and update the information in print and online by late October.

Scale of Car Reliability Data

How many cars do you have information on overall?

CR's Annual Questionnaire is one of the largest scientific surveys conducted in the United States. Our 2016 survey, which was sent to subscribers of Consumer Reports magazine and to ConsumerReports.org subscribers, gave us feedback on our subscribers' experiences with over half a million vehicles. This high number of responses allows CR to provide the most comprehensive reliability information available to consumers.
How many samples do you have of each model?

A typical model has about 200 to 400 samples for each model year. When we have smaller sample sizes than this on vehicles, we use brand history and the reliability of similar models that may share major components in calculating our predictions. Since 2015, we use an online questionnaire exclusively instead of our previous mix of electronic and paper ballots from subscribers. That change shrank our respondent pool, but the Internet-only survey allows us to ask more in-depth questions and solicit detailed comments about problems.
What effect does having a larger sample size for some vehicles compared with others have on the validity of the reliability data?

Given an appropriate sample, the more data you have, the more statistical confidence you have in your information. A larger sample will always give more accurate information than a smaller sample (assuming, of course, that the data are valid and collected from an appropriate source).

When we have small sample sizes on vehicles, we use brand history and the reliability of similar models that may share major components. This gives us the ability to predict reliability of brand new vehicles or ones that have been recently redesigned.


What Types of Problems Are Reflected?

Are all automotive problems included?

Respondents to our survey are asked to identify problems they have experienced in a 12-month period in any of 17 trouble spots. We do not publish scores for advanced safety systems and air bags since the problem rates in the area are almost universally very low.

What do the trouble areas cover?


Our Reliability History charts cover problems in any of 17 trouble areas. Here's a look at what's covered in each of those areas:

ENGINE MAJOR: Engine rebuild or replacement, cylinder head, head gasket, turbocharger or supercharger, timing chain or belt.

ENGINE MINOR: Accessory belts and pulleys, engine computer, engine mounts, engine knock or ping, oil leaks.

ENGINE COOLING: Radiator, cooling fan, water pump, thermostat, antifreeze leaks, overheating.

TRANSMISSION (and clutch)-MAJOR: Transmission rebuild or replacement, torque converter, clutch replacement.

TRANSMISSION (and clutch)-MINOR: Gear selector and linkage, transmission computer, transmission sensor or solenoid, clutch adjustment, rough shifting, slipping transmission, leaks.

DRIVE SYSTEM: Driveshaft or axle, CV joint, differential, transfer case, four-wheel-drive/all-wheel-drive components, driveline vibration, electrical failure, traction control, electronic stability control (ESC).

FUEL SYSTEM/EMISSIONS: Check-engine light, sensors (O2 or oxygen sensor), emission-control devices (includes EGR), fuel-injection system, fuel cap, fuel gauge/sender, fuel pump, fuel leaks, stalling or hesitation.

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM: Alternator, starter, hybrid battery and related systems, regular battery, battery cables, engine harness, coil, ignition switch, electronic ignition, distributor or rotor failure, spark plugs and wires failure.

CLIMATE SYSTEM: A/C compressor, blower (fan) motor, condenser, evaporator, heater system, automatic climate system, electrical failure, refrigerant leakage.

SUSPENSION/STEERING: Shocks or struts, ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings, alignment, steering linkage (includes rack and pinion), power steering (pumps and hoses, leaks), wheel balance, springs or torsion bars, bushings, electronic or air suspension.

BRAKES: Antilock system (ABS), parking brake, master cylinder, calipers, rotors, pulsation or vibration, squeaking, brake failure, premature wear.

EXHAUST: Muffler, pipes, catalytic converter, exhaust manifold, heat shields, leaks.
PAINT/TRIM/RUST: Paint (fading, chalking, peeling or cracking), loose trim or moldings, rust.

BODY INTEGRITY (noises & leaks): Squeaks, rattles, wind noises, loose or cracked seals, and/or weather stripping, air and water leaks.

BODY HARDWARE (power or manual): Windows, locks and latches, doors or sliding doors, tailgate, trunk or hatch, mirrors, seat controls (movement and temperature), seat belts, sunroof, convertible top.

POWER EQUIPMENT AND ACCESSORIES: Cruise control, clock, warning lights, body control module, keyless entry, wiper motor or washer, tire pressure monitor, interior or exterior lights, horn, gauges, 12V power plug, USB port, alarm or security system, remote engine start.

AUDIO SYSTEM (in-car electronics): CD or DVD players, radio, speakers, in-dash GPS, communication system (e.g., OnStar), display screen freezes or goes blank, phone pairing (e.g. Bluetooth), voice control commands, steering wheel controls, portable music device interface (e.g., iPod/MP3 player), backup or other camera/sensors.
Are all problems considered equally serious?

Problems with the engine-major, cooling system, transmission-major, and driveline are more likely to take a car out of service and to be more expensive to repair than the other problem areas. Consequently, we weigh these areas more heavily in our calculations of Used Car Verdicts and Predicted Reliability. Problems such as broken trim and in-car electronics have a much smaller weight. Problems in any area can be an expense and a bother, though, so we report them all in the Reliability History charts

 

[Sl13cobra]

I believe you'll notice squeaking brakes and body integrity .....

Right from the horses mouth.

 

[EcoSwag1990]

They really aren't talking about how reliable the car is then, it's really just an all encompassing review of any issues that could be experienced period. They do try to make it more reasonable by weighting it as noted in the last paragraph.

Problems with the engine-major, cooling system, transmission-major, and driveline are more likely to take a car out of service and to be more expensive to repair than the other problem areas. Consequently, we weigh these areas more heavily in our calculations of Used Car Verdicts and Predicted Reliability. Problems such as broken trim and in-car electronics have a much smaller weight. Problems in any area can be an expense and a bother, though, so we report them all in the Reliability History charts

For the purpose of their calculation, you're right without us knowing how much specific issues are being weighted. If we're really talking about whether the car can be trusted to get you from point A to point B without issue (reliable) it would be an entirely different statistic. I really don't get how they justify using broken trim and rattles to predict reliability

Sponsored