With all the recent talk of unplugging the "nanny plug", I wouldn't recomend it.

[Norm Peterson]

Your fears are not the problem, its the innocent driver that you could potential kill by crashing into them from loosing control that has to be fearful.

You missed my point.

You want me to have your fears, which apparently assume that I'm going to crash at some point specifically because I might not drive with all available nannies left on.

In particular, you fear that I have neither the inclination nor the discipline to keep my driving under control at all times. You're afraid that I might not be able to resist the Cars & Coffee brand of showing off.

Those are your fears, not mine. Cause and effect not linked as directly as you've chosen to believe, which comes out of today's fear culture.

So I will tell you that in the 55 years that I've been driving there have only been three incidents where I let my driving slip past what car and road conditions could support. And that the most recent of those was almost 45 years ago. There was one more incident back in 1966 where with only a couple of years driving experience under my belt a big patch of black ice around midnight "caught me out".


Norm

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[Bluelightning]

Are you sure about the speed limiter thing? I thought GT's had a limiter at 155 that could be removed with a Tune. Never heard of the plug removing any limiter..

There is a limiter in the tune, and then a hard coded one at 180ish that can't be tuned out and that you can only get around by disabling the wheel speed sensors.

 

[Sivi70980]

This thread has me wanting to go get some cheap wheels/tires for the rear and do some empty parking lot 'testing" in Mexico....

 

[lacanteen]

I'm playing devil's advocate here: What liability does the owner take on by operating on public streets with safety features knowingly disabled? If I were an insurance agent, I would have an asterisk by every Mustang accident claim to check the safety system. Can this be a basis to 1) deny a claim and 2) have an owner take responsibility for an incident that might have been avoidable?

Any lawyers or agents want to chime in?

This being a public forum may give ideas to LEOs, lawyers, and agents. We all know that there are plenty of videos of Mustangs (mostly driven by idiots) wiping out on wet roads.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Only the last 3 cars I have owned have had any abs or traction control.

Scared is not the word.

Perhaps you don't intend it that way, but unfortunately that is the way it reads. There's a clear implication that we should all be flat-out afraid to turn off any of these systems.

I understand the limits of humans. We don’t pay attention sometimes. We are careless sometimes.

Point taken. Now let's get into what "sometimes" might mean with respect to our driving, where "careless sometimes" means "sometimes careless beyond the level of our individual human skill set to safely correct for but still within what the nannies can pull us out of". See the last paragraph in post #84.

Did I drive it like it wanted to kill me? Yes.

That right there tells me that you weren't exercising as much restraint in your driving of that car as you perhaps should have. Certainly less than I would have, driving the exact same car.

Try the moose test in the rain with the plug unplugged and plugged in. 99.9% of the time it’s all good. It’s that .1% that gets you.

I wonder how close autocross driving gets to that test - the maneuvers there can get pretty violent, and it's not just one high-lateral-g avoidance move and done either. That's something that perhaps more of us have experienced.


Norm

 

[Nagare]

I'm playing devil's advocate here: What liability does the owner take on by operating on public streets with safety features knowingly disabled? If I were an insurance agent, I would have an asterisk by every Mustang accident claim to check the safety system. Can this be a basis to 1) deny a claim and 2) have an owner take responsibility for an incident that might have been avoidable?

Any lawyers or agents want to chime in?

This being a public forum may give ideas to LEOs, lawyers, and agents. We all know that there are plenty of videos of Mustangs (mostly driven by idiots) wiping out on wet roads.

Same extra risk that people have with bald tires or no brakes? These nannies help, but they aren't on every car and people are certainly operating on public streets with a lot less than what we have.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I should have been more specific. Those who drove FWD cars all there life then jumped into a powerful RWD car, they disable the nanny then blah blah etc etc. Personally I drive with the advancetrac off all the time (not unplugging it) rain or shine.

I can see how that could happen. I'll even give you that among people with whose RWD experience is with much less power you could expect about the same. For the most part, it still comes back to that pesky matter of individual self-discipline.


Norm

 

[JayplaySS]

I've been driving with my unplugged all the time (DD) and no problems at all (last 10 days). It lets me have more fun. 18 GT A10

 

[BlackandBlue]

Perhaps you don't intend it that way, but unfortunately that is the way it reads. There's a clear implication that we should all be flat-out afraid to turn off any of these systems.

I saw a ladder fall off a truck in the fast lane on the interstate the other day. I was 3 lanes over in my truck about 1/4 mike behind when it happened. First car saw it happen and swerved and missed it. Second car ran it straight over.

That’s why I drive with advanced trak on. Situations you can’t plan for. Adrenaline is something that is rarely practiced. Read a little on how that degrades a skill set. Why do you think cars and coffee is such a big meme. Adrenaline. All those guys have done that many times. But few times in front of a cheering crowd.

How I read your responses is a am the best and nothing will happen to me outside my skill set.

I just can’t see any emergency situation where having an advanced safety system turned off will make a better outcome.

I always say I am just smart enough to know how ignorant I am. I think most people reverse that saying.

 

[ChromaticGrey]

I’m thinking your car is the exception to the rule.
I have my plug hooked up to a switch in the cabin so I can effectively plug/unplug on the fly.
If the car is stationary at the time of disconnect, I get the TC/ESC warning lights only.
If the car is moving, I get a warning that the advancetrak needs servicing. The warning disappears after a few seconds.
As to placebo vs real...
If you go to a skidpan or drift day with the plug connected vs disconnected, you’ll soon spot the differences.

Yeah, that's a bummer, and makes me wonder if there may be a possible underlying issue with the electronic steering. Even though i only see it when I unplug the plug. May have to try again to see if it shows right back up.

How do i explain this to the dealer and get them to fix it, without mentioning that i really only need it when i want to do doughnuts (in a safe controlled environment, nobody around, you animals), or make a 1/4 mile run. Last time i did a doughnut with advancetrac disabled, the car kicked on a "service advancetrac" warning, that of course went away about a quarter mile down the road. It shouldn't even have been on.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I saw a ladder fall off a truck in the fast lane on the interstate the other day. I was 3 lanes over in my truck about 1/4 mike behind when it happened. First car saw it happen and swerved and missed it. Second car ran it straight over.

That’s why I drive with advanced trak on. Situations you can’t plan for. Adrenaline is something that is rarely practiced.

Of course I've had a few sudden situations like that crop up over the years. I've had to do 65 mph slalom maneuvers through truck tire-tread minefields a couple of times, but those weren't adrenaline moments. Even the time on the track at HPDE when I lost a left-front wheel in a 1+g corner at 50 mph wasn't all that exciting (I was more pissed about having my day end early and being the cause of the session getting red-flagged).

FWIW, your car #2 was probably destined to drive straight over that ladder regardless of whether his car had all safety systems all turned on at max protection or none at all.

Read a little on how that degrades a skill set. Why do you think cars and coffee is such a big meme. Adrenaline. All those guys have done that many times. But few times in front of a cheering crowd.

I'm more than willing to take your word for it. The show-off force is strong in some people. Some . . .

What you need to understand about me is that I wouldn't do anything even remotely meme-worthy even if I had 900 HP on tap to do it with. I'm being 100% honest with you here.

How I read your responses is a am the best and nothing will happen to me outside my skill set.

I'm not saying that nothing ever could, but I've apparently been leaving myself more than enough margin. Which in the final analysis is all that matters. Leaving enough margin, with or without nanny assistance.

So far in all those years, not much in driving has been outside what I could cope with at the time. And trust me, I must have learned something from each of the few times where something did, because I've never been caught out the same way twice.

I just can’t see any emergency situation where having an advanced safety system turned off will make a better outcome.

The flip side is that even the best safety system can't do any better than "did not crash". Glass half empty/glass half full. Ideally, one drives in a manner that never gets any of the nannies interested in the proceedings, and I guess that's at the root of my personal philosophy. Apparently that's not such a common attitude these days, or as widespread within the Mustang community at large.

Are you aware that a nanny intervention that wasn't really necessary can lead to increased risk later even when it does the unnecessary but correct thing initially? One situation that I'm actually familiar with could have an occurrence rate somewhat more frequent than your "ladder fell off the truck" scenario.


Norm

 

[Burkey]

Yeah, that's a bummer, and makes me wonder if there may be a possible underlying issue with the electronic steering. Even though i only see it when I unplug the plug. May have to try again to see if it shows right back up.

How do i explain this to the dealer and get them to fix it, without mentioning that i really only need it when i want to do doughnuts (in a safe controlled environment, nobody around, you animals), or make a 1/4 mile run. Last time i did a doughnut with advancetrac disabled, the car kicked on a "service advancetrac" warning, that of course went away about a quarter mile down the road. It shouldn't even have been on.

I’d give it another go, just for science.
Th only time I’ve had the steering throw codes was when I had a dodgy wheel bearing.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Insurance companies set rates based on a cars saftey system. I am sure it varies by company but I am sure there is some fine print in some of them about that.

I imagine insurance rates are based on such basic components as tires and brakes being maintained in at least legally-acceptable condition. 2/32" tread depth and minimum pad and rotor thicknesses, for starters.


Norm

 

[TheReaper]

Insurance companies set rates based on a cars saftey system. I am sure it varies by company but I am sure there is some fine print in some of them about that.

My insurance company mentions disabling security and safety features in policy booklet but I think they are referring to running lights and theft recovery systems that are checked boxes on policy for a better rate.

It’s funny they have a whole page devoted to closed events. Aka track

Maybe you need to change Insurance companies.

 

[FruityJudy]

Isn’t blaming a plug for wrecking the same as blaming the gun for a shooting?

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