Will 2016 350R be built before spring?

[Bender]

Some of you may recall the issues with the C7's Sport Cup 2 tires that cracked during light use (to and from the plant & dealer) during last winter. What you may not know is that GM picked up the bill for replacing all of those tires.

Here's a valuable quote from Michelin's lead engineer, Lee Willard, "This winter has been extremely harsh in much of the country and some recently shipped Corvette tires may exhibit cracking. In general, summer tires should never be driven on or moved in temperatures under 20°F because they may crack. Tires should be carefully inspected at the dealership before taking delivery of a vehicle.”

Why is this relevant you may ask? The R has virtually the same tires. They will crack in cold temps. Corvettes are made in KY, which has an average low of 34 degrees in the winter. Mustangs are made in MI, which has an average low of 20 degrees. My belief has been that Ford will halt production of the R when it gets cold to avoid a similar situation. I'd be very surprised if they didn't.

This. Also PSC2 are not cheap to replace nor is it a commonly available tire (let alone the tire size) so I would think Ford would of learned from GMs woes.

Plus being in the N.E. I won't be able to drive the car until mid April at the earliest so I wouldn't mind a spring delivery. Would drive me insane looking at a brand new car in the garage all winter that I couldn't drive

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[PP0001]

Some of you may recall the issues with the C7's Sport Cup 2 tires that cracked during light use (to and from the plant & dealer) during last winter. What you may not know is that GM picked up the bill for replacing all of those tires.

Here's a valuable quote from Michelin's lead engineer, Lee Willard, "This winter has been extremely harsh in much of the country and some recently shipped Corvette tires may exhibit cracking. In general, summer tires should never be driven on or moved in temperatures under 20°F because they may crack. Tires should be carefully inspected at the dealership before taking delivery of a vehicle.”

Why is this relevant you may ask? The R has virtually the same tires. They will crack in cold temps. Corvettes are made in KY, which has an average low of 34 degrees in the winter. Mustangs are made in MI, which has an average low of 20 degrees. My belief has been that Ford will halt production of the R when it gets cold to avoid a similar situation. I'd be very surprised if they didn't.

I certainly appreciate your comments and the quote from Michelin's lead engineer but it is very hard for me to comprehend how the world's largest tire manufacturer can produce a tire that cannot withstand some cold weather in North America?

Obviously Michelin understands the type of weather that we experience on this continent during the winter time with many of us enthusiasts not having heated garages in cold climates therefore they must be prepared for cold weather encounters.

Based on the information that you provided from Michelin I am surprized that we all don't have to sign a waiver indicating that us owners take full responsibility during temperatures below a certain point for the Sport Cup 2 tires?

It will be interesting to see where this issue ends up?

:shrug:

 

[FTD]

I certainly appreciate your comments and the quote from Michelin's lead engineer but it is very hard for me to comprehend how the world's largest tire manufacturer can produce a tire that cannot withstand some cold weather in North America?

Obviously Michelin understands the type of weather that we experience on this continent during the winter time with many of us enthusiasts not having heated garages in cold climates therefore they must be prepared for cold weather encounters.

Based on the information that you provided from Michelin I am surprized that we all don't have to sign a waiver indicating that us owners take full responsibility during temperatures below a certain point for the Sport Cup 2 tires?

It will be interesting to see where this issue ends up?

:shrug:

This is not a problem unique to Michelin. These are not all season tires. They are extreme performance summer tires. You can't have a very grippy summer tire that can be used in the winter, it isn't possible with current technologies. This should be common sense. They don't make you sign a waiver to change the oil or put in 93oct gasoline :gossip:.

If Ford put tires capable of winter temps on the car the performance figures would be much lower. The R was designed for racing, which requires warmer temperatures. Avoiding a similar situation by not building cars in the winter is a smart business decision.

 

[PP0001]

This is not a problem unique to Michelin. These are not all season tires. They are extreme performance summer tires. You can't have a very grippy summer tire that can be used in the winter, it isn't possible with current technologies. This should be common sense. They don't make you sign a waiver to change the oil or put in 93oct gasoline :gossip:.

If Ford put tires capable of winter temps on the car the performance figures would be much lower. The R was designed for racing, which requires warmer temperatures. Avoiding a similar situation by not building cars in the winter is a smart business decision.

Obviously you and I are not on the same page.

No where did I suggest that the Sport Cup 2 tires are acceptable for winter driving and do not suggest that we drive the R models during the winter time unless the car is in a warmer part of the country.

The issue here about these tires cracking/chipping during cold weather is the issue.

We all know that we can have very cold conditions in this great country and yet not have snow on the ground and can have very good driving conditions in spite of having cold temperatures.

When we take delivery of one of the R models no matter what month it is temperatures can be well below 40 degrees depending on that part of the continent you are in.

Are you telling me that we cannot drive our cars home from a dealership in clear but cold conditions assuming road conditions are dry?

In addition many people will start up their cars during the winter time and will back their cars out of the garage onto a clear driveway even though the temperature again will be quite cold.

Are we not to move these cars under any circumstances below a certain temperature?

Doesn't make any sense to me especially with the technology that Michelin has developed.

:cheers:

 

[krt22]

Are you telling me that we cannot drive our cars home from a dealership in clear but cold conditions assuming road conditions are dry?

In addition many people will start up their cars during the winter time and will back their cars out of the garage onto a clear driveway even though the temperature again will be quite cold.

Are we not to move these cars under any circumstances below a certain temperature?

Doesn't make any sense to me especially with the technology that Michelin has developed.

:cheers:

To make a long answer short, yes, you really should not drive these near R-comps in extreme temps, even with clear roads. Its the temperature itself that is the issue, summer tire compounds simply would not offer the grip they do if there were also to operate in very low temps. Unfortunately you can't have your cake and eat it too when it comes to certain materials.

There is only so much technology/materials science engineering that can go into a tire before you start making consolations when it comes to grip (ie all season tires)

It works the same in reverse as well, if you drive blizzaks in the summer at a decent pace, you will start to wear them like crazy and/or chunk and destroy them. The tire is designed to flex and move to make them usable in cold weather, but all that flexing generates too much heat in summer temps and the tire will essentially destroy itself. (the same way a race tire will destroy itself at the track if your tire pressures are too low and you let the sidewall flex too much)

 

[R 350 gt Donson]

I see your point PP0001, Assuming anyone of us gets his/her "R" before winter, and its now 20 degrees out side, and the GT350 R is just sitting in the garage (non Heated, as is 99.9% of all are not) are we to understand that just sitting there they could crack, chip? What are we suppose to put the car up on jacks in our garage and but the tires in our bedrooms under soft blankets? Surely this is not the case..right?

 

[FTD]

I understood you right; Cold weather is Winter. I didn't say snow, its operating temperature. I'm not saying you can't, I'm saying you shouldn't if you want your tires to stay healthy and likey avoid a crash or worse. I'm guessing you don't have much experience with race quality tires.

What krt22 said is absolutely correct. :hail:

Perhaps I'm more accustomed to the race car mentality. For years my race cars have had winter sets to drive/sit on and my race tires sit on a rack in my heated basement.

 

[Sb31767]

Okay lets clear up some rumors and myths.
These are not Hoosier race slicks so will be a little more range here on temps. Yes they can crack but normally being handled and dropped not sitting on car. Also garage attached to house rarely has the same temp as outside and key is no frost.
My race car has sat in attached garage endless times. Now granted charlotte not Midwest.
And March for many of you still won't be warm enough vs now if that is really the concern

 

[PP0001]

I understood you right; Cold weather is Winter. I didn't say snow, its operating temperature. I'm not saying you can't, I'm saying you shouldn't if you want your tires to stay healthy and likey avoid a crash or worse. I'm guessing you don't have much experience with race quality tires.

What krt22 said is absolutely correct. :hail:

Perhaps I'm more accustomed to the race car mentality. For years my race cars have had winter sets to drive/sit on and my race tires sit on a rack in my heated basement.

Right, I have no experience with quality race tires!!!:lol::lol:

First of all these R models are firstly a street car and not a race car so suggesting that we need to put on a set of winter tires to sit over the winter in our garages it beyond comprehension.

The Michelin Sport Cup 2 tires are a high performance street tire not a race tire. How many race tires have a tread wear rating of 180?

I look forward to a disclaimer from Michelin saying to not operate these tires under any conditions under 45 degrees.

We are talking about getting our cars from a dealership to our home or backing our car out in the winter time in reasonable conditions not about driving our cars in the winter time for pleasure.

There are many year of experience on this forum despite your comments about keeping our tires healthy and ending up in a crash!

:headbonk::headbonk:

 

[Sb31767]

Guys go to tire rack and read all about them. These tires are out there you know. Will answer all your questions and concerns

 

[Stage_3]

Guys go to tire rack and read all about them. These tires are out there you know. Will answer all your questions and concerns

I did some reading. Here are some cliff notes. But, I encourage you to do your own research.

Warning: Pilot Sport Cup 2 radials meet DOT requirements, however they are not recommended for driving in wet conditions where standing water is present and there is the risk of hydroplaning; drivers should drive cautiously at reduced speeds if they encounter these conditions. This is especially true of shaved or worn tires. And like other Streetable Track & Competition tires, these tires are not intended to be stored, serviced nor driven in near- or below freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.

It is recommended these types of tires be removed from the vehicle and stored indoors at temperatures maintained at above 32 degrees F (0 degrees C) when not in use.

Here are the links, if interested.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+Cup+2

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=221

 

[FTD]

Guys go to tire rack and read all about them. These tires are out there you know. Will answer all your questions and concerns

From Tire Rack, the PSC2 is classified as a "Streetable Track & Competition," which is further described as "Never intended to be driven on the street or exposed to near-freezing temperatures, Racetrack & Autocross Only special-use tires feature racing slick type tread designs and compounds optimized for dry traction to provide the ultimate in acceleration, cornering and braking in dry conditions."

From Michelin about the PSC2, "Tread compounds of the same family as Porsche Cup N2 racing slick tires" "Never use a tire with freeze cracks, breaks, or damage to the sidewall or tread. For those residing in colder climates, owners should have a plan for vehicle storage during cold winter months. If your garage drops below 20°F regularly, consider removing tires and storing them inside. If you live in colder climates and want to drive your vehicle in temperatures below 40°F we strongly recommend investing in a set of winter or all-season tires"

I'm done posting factual information. You can take or leave it, it doesn't matter to me at this point.

As Sb31767 said you can research it more if you'd like.

 

[Bossing]

Spot on. Avoid freezing temps or very cold temps... and avoid driving on "standing" water with Cup 2 tires. But you can still drive in the wet or light rain or even heavier rain as long as you're not driving over standing puddles of water.

I have tracked twice already with my Cup 2's on a wet track... but not over standing water. And I have driven on these wet track conditions at over 130mph with no hydroplaning issues. Again the key is no standing water!

 

[Stage_3]

Spot on. Avoid freezing temps or very cold temps... and avoid driving on "standing" water with Cup 2 tires. But you can still drive in the wet or light rain or even heavier rain as long as you're not driving over standing puddles of water.
I have tracked twice already with my Cup 2's on a wet track... but not over standing water. And I have driven on these wet track conditions at over 130mph with no hydroplaning issues. Again the key is no standing water!

ALSO, if you live in an area of the Country where you get really cold winters, you have to take the tires off the vehicle to prevent damage to the tires and store them in a room where the temps will be 32 degrees or higher. Very important.

 

[krt22]

Right, I have no experience with quality race tires!!!:lol::lol:

First of all these R models are firstly a street car and not a race car so suggesting that we need to put on a set of winter tires to sit over the winter in our garages it beyond comprehension.

The Michelin Sport Cup 2 tires are a high performance street tire not a race tire. How many race tires have a tread wear rating of 180?

I look forward to a disclaimer from Michelin saying to not operate these tires under any conditions under 45 degrees.

We are talking about getting our cars from a dealership to our home or backing our car out in the winter time in reasonable conditions not about driving our cars in the winter time for pleasure.

There are many year of experience on this forum despite your comments about keeping our tires healthy and ending up in a crash!

:headbonk::headbonk:

With all due respect, please read some of the links provided below. Its a well known fact that despite being marketed as a street tire (with a 180 tread wear rating), it behaves very much like an r-comp. As such, Ford not delivering R model cars in the winter and im sure there will be a nice section in the owners manual about winter driving/storage.

Its the reality of the situation, up to you to except it or not

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