wicker bill for GT350 track pack

[Stuntman]

How about your wear?

Even with 2.75 Camber front and 2.5 rear I'm getting more outer wear than inner wear with my Re71rs

What's your tire temp spread?

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[xXANCHORMONXx]

What's your tire temp spread?

Not sure, racing this Sunday and will check

 

[Stuntman]

Be sure to use a probe type pyrometer, stick the needle in all the way, at a 45* angle, in the middle of tread blocks, and at least 1" from the outer edges of the tire.

Always measure Outside - Middle - Inside and do it HOT, with no cool down lap.

 

[firestarter2]

Be sure to use a probe type pyrometer, stick the needle in all the way, at a 45* angle, in the middle of tread blocks, and at least 1" from the outer edges of the tire.

Always measure Outside - Middle - Inside and do it HOT, with no cool down lap.

Thats how I did it

 

[xXANCHORMONXx]

Thats how I did it

Looks great man.

 

[AndreiD]

Do we have any real numbers for this or just guesstimates?!

I'm sorry but I'm quite skeptical about adding aero stuff on the car especially since I got a front lip add-on for my BMW E60 from Hamann (a well known albeit reputable after market company) that once installed, produced a high pitched noise above 100mph. The noise was so loud it was like a plane taking off and most of the time I had to turn on the speaks loud just to make the ride tolerable.

In time the lip got fucked beyond repairment because the car was dropped even lower than the GT350 stock stance. Once it got removed, the high pitched noise was gone.

I shared my story, in response to some people that argued in this thread, that the factories don't release numbers either so why should a smaller company do this, but at least factories do wind tunnel tests and see how various parts affect the car's aero, both in terms of downforce and noise.

Just my 02

 

[xXANCHORMONXx]

Do we have any real numbers for this or just guesstimates?!

I'm sorry but I'm quite skeptical about adding aero stuff on the car especially since I got a front lip add-on for my BMW E60 from Hamann (a well known albeit reputable after market company) that once installed, produced a high pitched noise above 100mph. The noise was so loud it was like a plane taking off and most of the time I had to turn on the speaks loud just to make the ride tolerable.

In time the lip got fucked beyond repairment because the car was dropped even lower than the GT350 stock stance. Once it got removed, the high pitched noise was gone.

I shared my story, in response to some people that argued in this thread, that the factories don't release numbers either so why should a smaller company do this, but at least factories do wind tunnel tests and see how various parts affect the car's aero, both in terms of downforce and noise.

Just my 02

Thank you for your 2 cents. You don't have to buy it, no one is forcing you.

Remember this is the same company who "tested" their tech pack cars but didn't disclose that your car might go into limp mode on a Sunday drive.

A wicker bill aka gurney flap has been proven to add down force as long as it's minimal. Add too much and it only adds drag.

The oem spoiler is not vertical, it's at a 45 degrees maybe less. So when this piece is added on the change in aero is less than a gurney flap on a flat surface with a more severe angle.

 

[Stuntman]

Hamann body kits and pieces are crap.
All show, no engineering or aerodynamics in it's design. GM & Ford are pretty impressive with the aero on their track focused cars.

A wicker bill aka gurney flap has been proven to add down force as long as it's minimal. Add too much and it only adds drag.

The oem spoiler is not vertical, it's at a 45 degrees maybe less. So when this piece is added on the change in aero is less than a gurney flap on a flat surface with a more severe angle.

Um... No, and no. NASCAR use to run 8" 80-degree (damn near vertical) flat-bottomed spoilers. The Z28 & Z06 use vertical wicker bills and is proven as an effective device. (Gurney Flaps are vertical protrusions on airfloils, not spoilers).

When increasing the height of a spoiler, both drag and downforce increases. Depending on the greenhouse of the car, angle and height of the spoiler, etc... The L/D will change but not "only adds drag".

 

[nastang87xx]

The OEM spoiler is definitely not a 45 degree angle but it's also progressively sloped too. I have no doubt this piece adds downforce BUT how much is the key.

Gurney flaps work because they generate a high pressure zone in front of the flap and create a rolling affect so air collects in a pocket and additional air actually rolls over that high pressure zone. The affect is similar to how many modern pickups actually have less drag WITHOUT a bed cab because the beds essentially "fill" up with air and excess air movement rolls over the high pressure zone.

 

[firestarter2]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/BwZFXo0LskPFf4GC2
If anyone wants a higher res view

 

[Epiphany]

You can see in the link below (at the 4:28 mark) how the airflow is a bit higher than the lip on the decklid at what would be near the extreme top of the Track Pack spoiler.


[ame]






Without any wing vs Track Pack...







R wing...












Another that shows how the R wing is just tall enough to catch the air stream as it flows over the roof ...


[ame]






Total pressure shown on an R model simulation

Pressure distribution...

 

[firestarter2]

It looks like the wicker would have an effect.

 

[xXANCHORMONXx]

Hamann body kits and pieces are crap.
All show, no engineering or aerodynamics in it's design. GM & Ford are pretty impressive with the aero on their track focused cars.
Um... No, and no. NASCAR use to run 8" 80-degree (damn near vertical) flat-bottomed spoilers. The Z28 & Z06 use vertical wicker bills and is proven as an effective device. (Gurney Flaps are vertical protrusions on airfloils, not spoilers).

When increasing the height of a spoiler, both drag and downforce increases. Depending on the greenhouse of the car, angle and height of the spoiler, etc... The L/D will change but not "only adds drag".

It's great that everyone becomes a jackass on this forum when they have an issue with what anyone else has to say about a topic.

I've watched a documentary on this as well as a few videos and this is what I've learned from it.

 

[NvrFinished]

It's called the Gurney Flap because it was developed by Dan Gurney for auto racing. It was later recognized and developed for the aircraft industry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurney_flap

Regardless, it's people like John from ZL1 Addons that help to bring better parts to the industry for people who want to improve the performance or looks of their cars.

Where would we be today regarding hotrods and racing if it wasn't for the Vic Edelbrocks, the Holley brothers, Dan Gurneys, NASCAR, and numerous other people and early organizations in the hotrod and racing world? They did all their testing in the real world.

The Wicker Bill is a concept that has been known to work. Will it work well for the Mustang? Who knows for sure until people take it to the track and get real world results? :shrug: Based on the theory and history of the Wicker Bill it's a small investment worth pursuing as far as I'm concerned.

To ask for wind tunnel testing, real world numbers, and other data from a man who literally runs his business from a large garage/machine shop in his backyard is ridiculous. I know a little of John's background and he is not unfamiliar with aerodynamics and good engineering.

If the part works, word will get out and people will be scrambling for it. If it doesn't, people will learn that to. That's how it works with this part of the mod world for track cars. To discount it as crap beforehand is just ignorant. ;)

 

[Stuntman]

It's great that everyone becomes a jackass on this forum when they have an issue with what anyone else has to say about a topic.

I've watched a documentary on this as well as a few videos and this is what I've learned from it.

I stayed at a holiday inn last night.

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