Where do the S550 Shelby Super Snakes fit in amongst the GT350's?

[Wildcardfox]

Been resisting this thread...

My opinion is that pretty much ALL of these "take a car and modify it" tuner cars, are money grabs. Mustang owners, as enthusiasts have always had a large aftermarket and created their own "combos" piece by piece....but occasionally will buy ALL of the parts at once to make their car unique right from the beginning. IMO, tuner companies just do this a little better and offer "packages" for people who have the money but not the desire to modify their own cars. These tuner cars are a great option when the factory isn't putting out their own warmed over OEM solution which is almost always better designed.

Shelby is included in this. You don't have to do anything but visit their facility in Vegas to see the opportunistic money grab going on there. They certainly have more history than others, I can give them that but how long can you milk that cow?

I agree with you. Before if you wanted a hopped up Mustang that was from a third-party manufacturer you had to either buy a Saleen, Roush, Shelby American, and now an RTR. They offered a level of performance that may have been the same parts that you could buy from other manufacturers like Procharger, Kenne Bell, BMR suspension, Accufab, or Baer Brakes etc., just rebranded with their their party manufacturer’s logo. If you were in the aftermarket world, it wasn’t hard to notice that is was just a compilation of other parts that you could already buy, but with a huge premium on top of it—somewhere around ten thousand or more dollars for a rebadged unit. Gone are the days where there were original parts other than body kits and aero parts, and it worked really well when you only had third party manufacturers. Look at the 99-04 Saleen, I would argue that car defined that era of Mustang. It was the most know and most respected of all of the Mustangs by the greater community. In Souther California during those days everyone wanted a Saleen or wanted to look like a Saleen—they wanted to rent one to take it to Prom—it was the epitome of cool and it elevated how people thought of that Mustang. You didn’t have to be a Mustang fan to know that it was cool.

Flash forward to now, Ford has joined the game and it can offer something that is not a derivative or compilation of aftermarket parts. They can offer a from the ground developed car that is fiercer, angrier, and has racing strewn within every fiber of its DNA , and they can do this while offering it at a better price than the third parties ever could. So it’s a lot harder to sell their vehicles, at least it would appear that way from the perspective of someone who is already in the Mustang world and who knows the parts offered by companies pretty well, but that is usually not the person who will buy their products.

The person who is their market is someone who either doesn’t know that they are paying a premium for mostly aftermarket parts or they don’t care and are happy to pay for a package that is developed and has a warranty. Or they may want the name or the registry number in the case of Shelby. The fact is, some people just want what they like and they like different—Yes they could have bought a GT350/GT500 and had arguably a better car but just like how back in the early 2000s in SoCal, while everyone else mimicked Saleen, I wanted my Mustang to look like a Roush because you hardly ever saw them and that added to the appeal for me.

As for milking the cow , I’ve been to both Saleen and Shelby’s plants multiple times, they’re always packed with cars being converted into some $100,000 version. They are not hurting for business, so I don’t think you or me is their ideal client, but whomever they are targeting, they cannot get enough of what they offer and in some cases their is a year waitlist.

That is the case with Shelby’s wide body conversion and they a have a pretty good list for trucks. Shelby sells more trucks than they do Mustangs nowadays—3:1. And although it’s expensive if I could I would have a Shelby Raptor in Leadfoot Gray.

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[Wildcardfox]

And as speaking on the DNA . I’ve been lucky enough to drive a variety of cars in my journalism career and as speaking to almost every third party offering that I’ve been behind the wheel of, they were all fast, they all had a supercharger and made over 700 horsepower, and they all looked like a supercar rolling down the road and almost all had a striking bright paint job that announced to the world that you had arrived, but the one they that they all lacked was the DNA of a car that had been built from the drawing board to be a fierce monster. It’s a little hard to describe, but if you get behind the wheel of one of these third party cara and then jump into a GT350/GT500 you will notice it. Although changed, and altered from their former GT life, the third party offerings lack the feeling that it is a car that was created from scratch to be a track star or a 700 horsepower drag and track car. They can match those numbers, they can even go fast around the track but that DNA is missing. It’s tamer, it’s not as hardcore and that makes sense. Ford makes the GT for everyone. Unless you have a hardcore variant like the PP2 or the new Mach 1, then it’s a car designed for the masses—meant to satisfy a high school senior and a 70 year old retiree. It has it be broad and make everyone happy. The GT350/GT500 are focused and are niche items with no comprises. You feel that and you miss it when you’re behind the wheel of these third party offerings.

 

[svttim]

You know, I was a weeeeeeee idea in God’s master plan when the 65/66 GT350’s came out but the first Shelby I ever saw was a 68’ GT500KR. A guy offered to sell that car (manual car) and a pristine ‘71 429CJ Mach 1 to my father in 1982 for $6k together. My dad said, “I don’t want that crap (pointing to the KR), but I’ll take the ‘71,” which he bought for $1200 on the spot. In all due respect, my dad had a bad incident in a ‘67 2+2 GT so he didn’t care for the body style at the time, but for many years thereafter kicked himself for not getting the ‘68.

Fast forward to today... I like it when people can say something and mean it. I even like it more when someone says, “You can’t,” but a “Hell yes I can!”, comes back and the product is absolutely a damn-right HELL YEAH! That’s what I see in the GT350.

People told Shelby he couldn’t do what he envisioned with the Cobra, the Mustang and then the GT40.... but, that man had spirit, a gift/talent and a team second-to-none, and together that made some of the most compelling cars in history!

Someone said that Ford couldn’t build a larger displacement FPC... thankfully, someone at Ford, along with the finance department, was a pioneering spirit that said, “Eff you!... Let’s do it,” and man what a jewel we got in the GT350/R. I’m glad to be a part of history... a Eff you (!) history that does carry the legacy of a man who stood against the world and won.

if you think that the DMV’s opinion of your Shelby-whatever matters... you don’t buy into this legacy. I’ll gladly fly the Shelby/Ford flag for you.

Carry on!

Well said!

A little off topic but I owned 2 71 429 CJ cars. They were nice (and rare)

 

[svttim]

Yes, I know what it's called. My point is, this doesn't seem to automatically create the best of breed car, IMO.

your "Money grabs" statement just didnt make sense. They dont grab your money. They make a product, like any other manufacturer and the consumer decides of he is going to hand it to them to purchase the product. If its a bad product, it doesn't sell

 

[Jmeo]

your "Money grabs" statement just didnt make sense. They dont grab your money. They make a product, like any other manufacturer and the consumer decides of he is going to hand it to them to purchase the product. If its a bad product, it doesn't sell

Exactly

 

[svttim]

I believe the top four (Shelby, Roush, Steeda & Saleen) do create an overall better mustang, compared to how it was stock. Probably other makers too, but I am only referencing the top four.

Shelby American has shot to the top as the best off the best in this field.

Reports are Saleen is done again

 

[Jmeo]

Reports are Saleen is done again

Yeah, they were giving it a go again these last couple years, but to no avail it seems.

 

[wingnutt]

The GT350/GT500 are focused and are niche items with no comprises. You feel that and you miss it when you’re behind the wheel of these third party offerings.

this, times eleventy!!!

I’m not gonna name any names, but I not-so-recently met up with a member here (thank you sir) and got some seat time in his higher horsepower non-Shelby S550.

and I’m not taking anything away from his ride; It’s a GREAT car, sounds wonderful, more accoutrements, and quite frankly has more punch off the line than my R...but my wife called me after the encounter and asked what I thought, and my response was “it’s just not the same, doesn’t have the feel”

 

[stanglife]

your "Money grabs" statement just didnt make sense. They dont grab your money. They make a product, like any other manufacturer and the consumer decides of he is going to hand it to them to purchase the product. If its a bad product, it doesn't sell

In this case I use it in the context of a company that relies on its name to sell mostly the same product that anyone can bolt together, with few exceptions.

 

[stanglife]

At any rate - it’s good to have options and I’m the last one to tell someone else where to spend their money.

 

[DrumReaper]

Well said!

A little off topic but I owned 2 71 429 CJ cars. They were nice (and rare)

Yeah, the ‘71-73 years often are forgotten about, yet one of the fastest Mustangs came out of that generation (Boss 351) and had a badass engine to boot.

I had a 71 B351... sad story... during its restoration someone switched the block out and by the time I found out it was too late to deal with it.

The ‘71 429CJ I have now is due for a resto, and once we get our perm home situation figured out that process will start. I’m looking at companies to send it to... if they have the availability and it doesn’t put another hole in my derrière.

I practically grew up in the ‘71. All the time I saw that speedo needle buried straight down with my dad behind the wheel were good times. Everyone always wanted to race him on our way to school so he had to show them they didn’t have anything for the cubic inches.

 

[Wildcardfox]

Reports are Saleen is done again

www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-08-13/car-legend-steve-saleens-china-venture-collapses%3f_amp=true

Note to self; when trying to break into the Chinese car market, don’t make this your first car for sale

They only sold 27 and due to those poor sales the Chinese Government shut down the business claiming fraud.

 

[PP0001]

Yeah, the ‘71-73 years often are forgotten about, yet one of the fastest Mustangs came out of that generation (Boss 351) and had a badass engine to boot.

I had a 71 B351... sad story... during its restoration someone switched the block out and by the time I found out it was too late to deal with it.

The ‘71 429CJ I have now is due for a resto, and once we get our perm home situation figured out that process will start. I’m looking at companies to send it to... if they have the availability and it doesn’t put another hole in my derrière.

I practically grew up in the ‘71. All the time I saw that speedo needle buried straight down with my dad behind the wheel were good times. Everyone always wanted to race him on our way to school so he had to show them they didn’t have anything for the cubic inches.

I remember your '71 Boss 351 just like it was yesterday and when you originally told me the story many years about the switched out block I was sick to my stomach about how someone could do something like that.

On a more positive note the '71 Boss 351 is just another great example of why The Ford Motor Company is my favorite automotive manufacturer based on it's forward thinking and outstanding leading technology.

The Boss 351 engine is without a doubt one of the most impressive power plants that Ford has ever released in a regular production vehicle with 1806 examples being built back in the day.

In 1970/1971 when General Motors and Chrysler (especially GM) were dramatically reducing the compression ratios for their high performance line up of cars, what does Ford do but build a very impressive solid lifter small block engine and increased the compression ratio to 11.7 : 1 which was very much out of the norm during the time.

With a rating of just 330 HP there is no question that Ford intentionally underrated the true horsepower of this engine just as they did when rating the output starting with the '68 1/2 428 CJ cars.

Back in the day both Car and Driver and also Motortrend regularly were posting 13.7 and 13.8 quarter mile times for the Boss 351 which was very impressive for a ~3,600# car and can tell you first hand that it was a terror when it came to stop light racing that we did at the time.

I distinctly remember reading various publications back in the early 2000's one of which was Muscle Car Review Magazine at which time the put together a list for the " 50 Fastest Muscle Cars" of all time and took into consideration publications such as Car Craft, Car and Driver, Motortrend, Hot Rod Magazine and Super Stock Magazine amongst a couple others.

Of the Top 50 Fastest Musclecars listed there were only 2 small block vehicles that made the Top 50 list with the rest of the list made up of 400, 426, 427, 428, 440, 454 and 455 cubic inch engine vehicles.

Those two small block engine vehicles were the 1971 Boss 351 coming in at position #35 and the other vehicle was a 1962 Corvette with a FI 327 and it came in at position #43.

Just another terrific example of The Ford Motor Company leading the way with the outstanding Boss 351 car and just as they have with the 2nd generation GT350/R's with the FPC engine and CF wheel initiative.

Thanks again Ford!!

 

[luc]

I remember your '71 Boss 351 just like it was yesterday and when you originally told me the story many years about the switched out block I was sick to my stomach about how someone could do something like that.

On a more positive note the '71 Boss 351 is just another great example of why The Ford Motor Company is my favorite automotive manufacturer based on it's forward thinking and outstanding leading technology.

The Boss 351 engine is without a doubt one of the most impressive power plants that Ford has ever released in a regular production vehicle with 1806 examples being built back in the day.

In 1970/1971 when General Motors and Chrysler (especially GM) were dramatically reducing the compression ratios for their high performance line up of cars, what does Ford do but build a very impressive solid lifter small block engine and increased the compression ratio to 11.7 : 1 which was very much out of the norm during the time.

With a rating of just 330 HP there is no question that Ford intentionally underrated the true horsepower of this engine just as they did when rating the output starting with the '68 1/2 428 CJ cars.

Back in the day both Car and Driver and also Motortrend regularly were posting 13.7 and 13.8 quarter mile times for the Boss 351 which was very impressive for a ~3,600# car and can tell you first hand that it was a terror when it came to stop light racing that we did at the time.

I distinctly remember reading various publications back in the early 2000's one of which was Muscle Car Review Magazine at which time the put together a list for the " 50 Fastest Muscle Cars" of all time and took into consideration publications such as Car Craft, Car and Driver, Motortrend, Hot Rod Magazine and Super Stock Magazine amongst a couple others.

Of the Top 50 Fastest Musclecars listed there were only 2 small block vehicles that made the Top 50 list with the rest of the list made up of 400, 426, 427, 428, 440, 454 and 455 cubic inch engine vehicles.

Those two small block engine vehicles were the 1971 Boss 351 coming in at position #35 and the other vehicle was a 1962 Corvette with a FI 327 and it came in at position #43.

Just another terrific example of The Ford Motor Company leading the way with the outstanding Boss 351 car and just as they have with the 2nd generation GT350/R's with the FPC engine and CF wheel initiative.

Thanks again Ford!!

I disagree regarding the 428 Cobra Jet, I had a 69 Mach 1 CJ “R “ code for many years and my, at the time, 2001 Jaguar XJR was much, much faster
The Mach 1 weighed about 3700 and 335 hp, the Jaguar weighted 4100 and 370 hp....
I think that you are looking at the past with colored glasses, most econobox of today are faster than most muscle cars of yesterday

 

[PP0001]

I disagree regarding the 428 Cobra Jet, I had a 69 Mach 1 CJ “R “ code for many years and my, at the time, 2001 Jaguar XJR was much, much faster
The Mach 1 weighed about 3700 and 335 hp, the Jaguar weighted 4100 and 370 hp....
I think that you are looking at the past with colored glasses, most econobox of today are faster than most muscle cars of yesterday

I appreciate your well thought out post as it is one of the best posts that I have come across in a very long time.

With respect to your comparison of a 2001 Jaguar XJR being much faster than your 1969 Mach 1 CJ not sure what prompted those comments?

Obviously your 2001 Jaguar XJR was much faster and so it should be as that car had 32 years of newer technology built into it which included a SC 4.0L engine, 5 speed transmission, fuel injection and has a great deal more horsepower than your '69 Mach I.

You that you do realize that your Mach 1's horsepower rating in 1969 was based on the SAE gross horsepower standard up to and including 1971 and then beginning in 1972 and beyond the horsepower rating standard was based on SAE HP net numbers which resulted in a significant reduction of horsepower (~20%) therefore your Jaguar had a great deal more power and was much faster than your Mach 1.

Having owned a Mustang from all 6 generations along with being allocated the very first Acura Integra GSR in Canada back in 1992, owned a 2018 Honda Civic Type R as well as still owning numerous GT350/R cars I certainly know the virtues of how fast and outstanding the cars of today are versus those cars from the Muscle Car era.

It was never my intent to suggest that the Muscle Car era vehicles could compete with today's cars in terms of performance on any level therefore not sure how you came to that conclusion regarding my earlier post?

Suggest that maybe go clean your own glasses and reread my post and maybe it will make a little more sense to you the second time around.

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