Where do the S550 Shelby Super Snakes fit in amongst the GT350's?

[Cobra Jet]

So, just wondering from a S550 Shelby production perspective, where do the S550 Shelby Super Snakes fit into the mix?

Are these considered as stand alone production units because they have the Shelby "CSM" Serial Numbers and VIN plates under the hood?

Were they part of the S550 Shelby VIN groups and pulled from the line to be converted into a SS?

Should there be a sub-forum for them on here?

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[Davesvt2000]

Don’t they begin as mustang gt’s, that’s what their VIN’s come up as ?

 

[Wildcardfox]

So, just wondering from a S550 Shelby production perspective, where do the S550 Shelby Super Snakes fit into the mix?

Are these considered as stand alone production units because they have the Shelby "CSM" Serial Numbers and VIN plates under the hood?

Were they part of the S550 Shelby VIN groups and pulled from the line to be converted into a SS?

Should there be a sub-forum for them on here?

GT350/GT350R, GT500, Ford GT, Ford Raptor are products of Ford Performance.

Shelby Super Snake, Shelby Raptor, Shelby Cobra, Shelby Daytona Continuation, etc. are products of Shelby American Inc.; modern cars built primarily in Las Vegas at the Shelby American Inc. facility and the legacy cars being made in Irvine, CA made my Shelby Legacy Vehicles aka Superformance. All Shelby American cars get a CSM or CSX number that is added into the Shelby registry.

There is a third category: continuations of vehicles that can be both a licensed Ford product and a licensed Shelby Product—OVC Mustangs who make the continuation 1965 GT350 Continuation Model (read GT350R) and Gateway Bronco can fall into this category.

Now the connection: Ford licensed the Shelby name and the GT350/GT350R trademark from Shelby American. Supposedly Ford owns the GT500 trademark but they still license the Shelby name for that car to its historical connection.

Because the GT350/GT500 are license Shelby products, Shelby American Inc. was involved in the early design and development of the vehicles making sure that the end production vehicle met their standards of a car that will carry their trademark.

Speaking to Shelby’s overall president Niel Cummings, no matter if it is made by Ford or made by Shelby American Inc.—they are all Shelby’s. So your car is a Shelby and the Super Snake is a Shelby.

Since the reunion of Carroll Shelby and Ford Motor Company, the two have formed a very close symbiotic relationship that is unrivaled in the third party manufacturing market—they have more insights and access versus competitors like RTR, Roush, or Saleen. So their relationship is extremely close and as Gary Patternson says they speak to the engineers and try to add features that were either left on the table or weren’t explored. They compliment each other in the business relationship.

And yes the Super Snake is based on a Mustang GT, but is so heavily modified that is almost a new car with suspension that was developed on Penske’s shaker tables that are used to dial in race cars.

Tim Stieve can flesh it out more but that’s the broad strokes.

fun fact: many wondered about the production run of the GT350/GT350R—the length of the run was all down to licensing! The deal was supposed to end in 2018, but got extended so that the GT500 could be developed so that Ford could fulfill the promise of having a GT350 and GT500 in dealer showrooms for at least 1 year. But our cars are no longer being produced not because they needed to make way for the Mach 1 or because the Shelby line was too crowded or any other assumption that has been stated in automotive outlets, it all comes down to licensing. The deal was only for a few years, had been extended and then completed its duration.

 

[svttim]

GT350/GT350R, GT500, Ford GT, Ford Raptor are products of Ford Performance.

Shelby Super Snake, Shelby Raptor, Shelby Cobra, Shelby Daytona Continuation, etc. are products of Shelby American Inc.; modern cars built primarily in Las Vegas at the Shelby American Inc. facility and the legacy cars being made in Irvine, CA made my Shelby Legacy Vehicles aka Superformance. All Shelby American cars get a CSM or CSX number that is added into the Shelby registry.

There is a third category: continuations of vehicles that can be both a licensed Ford product and a licensed Shelby Product—OVC Mustangs who make the continuation 1965 GT350 Continuation Model (read GT350R) and Gateway Bronco can fall into this category.

Now the connection: Ford licensed the Shelby name and the GT350/GT350R trademark from Shelby American. Supposedly Ford owns the GT500 trademark but they still license the Shelby name for that car to its historical connection.

Because the GT350/GT500 are license Shelby products, Shelby American Inc. was involved in the early design and development of the vehicles making sure that the end production vehicle met their standards of a car that will carry their trademark.

Speaking to Shelby’s overall president Niel Cummings, no matter if it is made by Ford or made by Shelby American Inc.—they are all Shelby’s. So your car is a Shelby and the Super Snake is a Shelby.

Since the reunion of Carroll Shelby and Ford Motor Company, the two have formed a very close symbiotic relationship that is unrivaled in the third party manufacturing market—they have more insights and access versus competitors like RTR, Roush, or Saleen. So their relationship is extremely close and as Gary Patterson says they speak to the engineers and try to add features that were either left on the table or weren’t explored. They compliment each other in the business relationship.

And yes the Super Snake is based on a Mustang GT, but is so heavily modified that is almost a new car with suspension that was developed on Penske’s shaker tables that are used to dial in race cars.

Tim Stieve can flesh it out more but that’s the broad strokes.

fun fact: many wondered about the production run of the GT350/GT350R—the length of the run was all down to licensing! The deal was supposed to end in 2018, but got extended so that the GT500 could be developed so that Ford could fulfill the promise of having a GT350 and GT500 in dealer showrooms for at least 1 year. But our cars are no longer being produced not because they needed to make way for the Mach 1 or because the Shelby line was too crowded or any other assumption that has been stated in automotive outlets, it all comes down to licensing. The deal was only for a few years, had been extended and then completed its duration.

Cant say it any better but I can add, Shelby deals in pre and post production cars. The current cars, including the Supersnake are post title. In other words they are sold to a dealer or customer and then converted to a Shelby American product. They do receive a CSM number. Pre title cars were the Shelby GT 2006-2009 and the GT500KRs. They were shipped to Shelby from the factory and from there to the dealers. Shelby's interaction with Ford is very strong. Along with Gary, Aaron Shelby makes several trips to Ford to visit with Ford execs

The current Supersnake is a post title, GT based car. Its is a supercharged V8. It carries 825 HP at the motor. Supersnakes, unlike the 350 has a list of options. It is a brute but not the raw track monster that the 350R is. It has a ford performance handling pack suspension with the optional Penske package. The road manors of the Supersnake is probably a better fit for cruising in comparison. The Supersnake is exclusive. They dont make a ton of them. As such, they are expensive. They tend to hold their value well but I have seen a few go relatively cheap used (cheap is relative) As for the forum, not sure enough were built to warrant a section here. Possibly a Shelby American section (all their cars)? I hope this helps

 

[PP0001]

Cant say it any better but I can add, Shelby deals in pre and post production cars. The current cars, including the Supersnake are post title. In other words they are sold to a dealer or customer and then converted to a Shelby American product. They do receive a CSM number. Pre title cars were the Shelby GT 2006-2009 and the GT500KRs. They were shipped to Shelby from the factory and from there to the dealers. Shelby's interaction with Ford is very strong. Along with Gary, Aaron Shelby makes several trips to Ford to visit with Ford execs

The current Supersnake is a post title, GT based car. Its is a supercharged V8. It carries 825 HP at the motor. Supersnakes, unlike the 350 has a list of options. It is a brute but not the raw track monster that the 350R is. It has a ford performance handling pack suspension with the optional Penske package. The road manors of the Supersnake is probably a better fit for cruising in comparison. The Supersnake is exclusive. They dont make a ton of them. As such, they are expensive. They tend to hold their value well but I have seen a few go relatively cheap used (cheap is relative) As for the forum, not sure enough were built to warrant a section here. Possibly a Shelby American section (all their cars)? I hope this helps

Terrific information gentlemen with respect to the pre and post production Shelby American cars of recent years.

On a personal note I owned a 2008 GT500 convertible and a 2009 GT500 coupe and convertible with both convertibles coming with option "54R" which allowed for OTT Red stripes that come on Black or White cars only.

I never fell in love with any of my 2nd generation GT500 cars as they did not handle very well and were okay from a performance standpoint but nothing really special.

Until Ford started applying their own OTT vinyl stripes which launched with the 2010 GT500 MY I can tell you first hand that the OTT vinyl stripes on my 2008/2009 cars were very poorly applied and in fact because of that issue Ford fired their 3rd party OTT striping team at the end of the 2009 GT500 MY with Ford purchased their own OTT striping machine for the FRAP which launced during the 2010 MY and have been doing their own stripes ever since sans the painted CFTP GT500 cars which are done by Penske.

Getting back to the pre title SA cars I remember some of my car buddies purchasing a few of the 1712 GT500KR cars from 2008 and 2009 MY's and at an MSRP of ~$80,000 these guys took a huge bath once they went to sell them sometime later.

Once the 2nd generation Boss 302's launched in February, 2011 I could not get rid of my GT500 cars fast enough as the 2012/2013 Boss 302 cars and especially the 2 seat LS cars were a much better drivers car than the 2nd generation GT500 cars on so many levels.

 

[svttim]

Terrific information gentlemen with respect to the pre and post production Shelby American cars of recent years.

On a personal note I owned a 2008 GT500 convertible and a 2009 GT500 coupe and convertible with both convertibles coming with option "54R" which allowed for OTT Red stripes that come on Black or White cars only.

I never fell in love with any of my 2nd generation GT500 cars as they did not handle very well and were okay from a performance standpoint but nothing really special.

Until Ford started applying their own OTT vinyl stripes which launched with the 2010 GT500 MY I can tell you first hand that the OTT vinyl stripes on my 2008/2009 cars were very poorly applied and in fact because of that issue Ford fired their 3rd party OTT striping team at the end of the 2009 GT500 MY with Ford purchased their own OTT striping machine for the FRAP which launced during the 2010 MY and have been doing their own stripes ever since sans the painted CFTP GT500 cars which are done by Penske.

Getting back to the pre title SA cars I remember some of my car buddies purchasing a few of the 1712 GT500KR cars from 2008 and 2009 MY's and at an MSRP of ~$80,000 these guys took a huge bath once they went to sell them sometime later.

Once the 2nd generation Boss 302's launched in February, 2011 I could not get rid of my GT500 cars fast enough as the 2012/2013 Boss 302 cars and especially the 2 seat LS cars were a much better drivers car than the 2nd generation GT500 cars on so many levels.

Having owned both the GT500 and the GT500KR I would concur with Harry's assessment. I have tracked the GT500's and the Boss 302 and now the GT350 and GT350R. I loved my 500 but we lovingly called it the flying pig on track. Fast in the straights but not so much in the corners. The KR (I bought used) was much more comfortable to drive through the corners fast but still no track star. I preferred the KR or the standard GT500 over the Boss on the street. I was not overly impressed with the Boss on track although it was a much better car then the GT500 (read better than a flying pig). It wasn't until the GT350 and especially the R that I felt Ford put together its best on track car.

Haven driven the new GT500, I still feel the 350 is a better handling car. In general, Shelby Americans cars were much better handling cars across the board along with their much higher horsepower ratings. Ford has closed that gap lately although Shelby American continues to improve product along with Ford

But the problem with all street cars (om track) is the weight of all the things that the Government mandates and the items consumers demand. Weight on track is an enemy and the distribution of that weight is crucial to performance as well as consumable expenses. Honeybadger has called me out for calling the 350R a factory race car. And he is correct, the R is a very capable track car that is comparable to the race cars of the not so recent past but, Its is not a race car. But for most, it may as well be since many drivers cannot get 100% out of the car. With its added weight on the nose, the GT500 of any year will never go through a corner the way the 350 does. And, comparing my FR500C to the GT350, well the FR500C killed the R in handling. My choices would be:

Best Street Ride: Shelby GT500
Best Dual Purpose: GT350R or Any Shelby American Product
Best Race car: Anything Built by KOHR Motorsports

A little off track but a good conversation

 

[460Fred]

And yet there are so many “purists” who still vocalize “It’s not really a Shelby unless it sees Vegas”.

 

[Labradog]

IMO they're badge and sticker cars and are no comparison to the 350 and 500

 

[PP0001]

Having owned both the GT500 and the GT500KR I would concur with Harry's assessment. I have tracked the GT500's and the Boss 302 and now the GT350 and GT350R. I loved my 500 but we lovingly called it the flying pig on track. Fast in the straights but not so much in the corners. The KR (I bought used) was much more comfortable to drive through the corners fast but still no track star. I preferred the KR or the standard GT500 over the Boss on the street. I was not overly impressed with the Boss on track although it was a much better car then the GT500 (read better than a flying pig). It wasn't until the GT350 and especially the R that I felt Ford put together its best on track car.

Haven driven the new GT500, I still feel the 350 is a better handling car. In general, Shelby Americans cars were much better handling cars across the board along with their much higher horsepower ratings. Ford has closed that gap lately although Shelby American continues to improve product along with Ford

But the problem with all street cars (om track) is the weight of all the things that the Government mandates and the items consumers demand. Weight on track is an enemy and the distribution of that weight is crucial to performance as well as consumable expenses. Honeybadger has called me out for calling the 350R a factory race car. And he is correct, the R is a very capable track car that is comparable to the race cars of the not so recent past but, Its is not a race car. But for most, it may as well be since many drivers cannot get 100% out of the car. With its added weight on the nose, the GT500 of any year will never go through a corner the way the 350 does. And, comparing my FR500C to the GT350, well the FR500C killed the R in handling. My choices would be:

Best Street Ride: Shelby GT500
Best Dual Purpose: GT350R or Any Shelby American Product
Best Race car: Anything Built by KOHR Motorsports

A little off track but a good conversation

Great review and certainly agree with most of the above.

Having said that I must add that after spending much time with many FP professional drivers on and off the track right around the time that the 2012 Boss 302 LS cars launched in early 2011 I had many discussions with each of these FP drivers while on and off the track.

During our many discussions I asked each and every professional driver for their impressions of the 2011/2012 GT500 versus the 2012 Boss 302 cars and in particular the 2 seat Laguna Seca model which came standard with Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires and slightly larger wheels/tires.

In all cases and it was not even close each and every driver chose the Boss 302 cars over the GT500 cars despite the Boss cars still running a live axle at the time. Every driver that I spoke with absolutely loved the low end torque of the RR engine and liked the Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires a great deal as well.

As far as personally comparing the 2nd generation GT500's and the 2nd generation Boss 302's with respect to driving them on the street I found the Boss 302 cars much more fun and engaging to drive on the street compared to the "flying pig" which you so correctly coined that car as and had many thousands of miles in each model to come to my determination.

Between the Boss 302's quad exhaust, better suspension, steering, brakes, 7,500 RPM redline, better power to weigh ratio, cool TracKey and tremendously better sounding exhaust system it was not even close for me starting some 10 years ago but do respect and appreciate your enjoying the GT500 more.

 

[Davesvt2000]

While I agree with many of the opinions above, at the end of the day, the DMV will regard most Las Vegas Shelby American conversion cars as still a mustang GT based on the vin#.

And to me, again, my opinion only, this affects future value versus a “Shelby” car that came off the FRAP from Ford.

 

[luc]

To me the only true Shelby were the 65 and 66
Built by a racer for racers
Every other years are mostly “marketing” cars

 

[BombZombie]

In my opinion (I own a 2017 Super Snake), they should still be seen (mechanically and "in spirt") as an S550. The engine is still a 5.0 Coyote with a Roush/Whipple/Kenne Bell supercharger kit and transmission is either a MT82/6R80/10R80. There's a slew of extras, but nothing that really makes it "different" than say a Roush or Saleen post-title conversion. It's obviously part of the Shelby registry, and 1 out of 500 made (for my MY), but it doesn't need a sub-forum.

And yes, as others pointed out, it's still considered a Mustang GT based on the VIN. You get a Shelby registry number, but it doesn't affect the original VIN at all.

I love the car, but I'm not going to think that it needs to be special regarding the forums here.

 

[Wildcardfox]

This deserves to be in this post as a visual of modern day Shelby American.

“My names Carroll Shelby and Performance is my business.”

 

[Wildcardfox]

While I agree with many of the opinions above, at the end of the day, the DMV will regard most Las Vegas Shelby American conversion cars as still a mustang GT based on the vin#.

And to me, again, my opinion only, this affects future value versus a “Shelby” car that came off the FRAP from Ford.

I respect your opinion and yes the Vin number for those vehicles – the modern day version Vehicles: Raptor, F150, Super Snake, GT500S, and GT350RS — Will show up as whatever vehicle they originally started us associating with their Vin number, but you cannot compare or try to say well they won’t be worth as much the history is actually showing that they still do sell for a lot because to some people values the pinnacle of what they desire and those CSM and CSX numbers do have an appeal. Different market, different vehicle, but they do pretty well and are far from being confused as the stock vehicle.

To me the only true Shelby were the 65 and 66
Built by a racer for racers
Every other years are mostly “marketing” cars

Beautiful car, but know Shelby American, the old guys who are still around and the company today, they would respect your opinion, but they would vehemently disagree with it.

 

[svttim]

IMO they're badge and sticker cars and are no comparison to the 350 and 500

Your opinion however, no basis in fact. I have driven several Supersnakes on track and they are formidible

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