Wall mounted garage door openers.

[HoosierDaddy]

I was planning to replace an overhead opener with a wall mount.

The old opener is over 10 years old and clearly on its last legs.

I like the idea of an easier installation, basically just slide the wall opener onto one end of the torsion spring shaft (not sure terminology) and bolt the opener to the wall. Plus, wall mounts are much quieter, give more clearance and leaves a blank slate for lighting.

A published downside is limited garage door weights. Since mine are within the "acceptable" range, I didn't give that much thought.

But after more thought I realized it's not a go/nogo situation but rather a progressively bad situation. With an overhead, the door is lifted from the middle. With a wall mount, a motor turns one end of the spring shaft and expects the other end to follow. But over that 16-foot length there has to be some twisting with half of the door weight on pulleys on each end of the bar. So, my conclusion is the max weight is the point where things just aren't going to work because the far end of the bar is just too far behind in lifting its end of the garage door. But less weight doesn't mean all is well, just less likely to jam up and less stress of every moving part (hinges, rollers, shafts).

Am I on the right track or is there some other factor in play that negates the twisting forces on the bar?

Unless I'm missing something, it seems like tempting fate and premature problems with 16 feet wide doors. Look at the spindly shafts in the picture. It seems unlikely their design ever anticipated different loads at each end, at least for shafts designed before wall mount openers.

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[GT Pony]

Seems the wall mount opener motor is simply turning the long rod that the door counter weight wind up springs are on. As long as that long shaft can take the opener's input torque the garage door should still open and close without much force because of the big wound up counter weight springs.

If those counter weight springs are adjusted correctly (per the door installation instructions) you should be able to open and close the garage door simply by hand without much effort. And if those springs are adjusted correctly, the torque required by the wall mounted opener to open the door should also be pretty low. What's the torque output of the wall mounted opener?

 

[Cwood8656]

I’ve owned two of this model opener and love them. No problems at all for me.

Chris-

 

[Balr14]

Keep in mind wall mounts are attached directly to the wall, not to a metal frame. So, they are only as good as your wall. Also, if the power goes out, they can not be detached so the door can be opened manually. That's what the garage door company told me when we bought a new opener.

 

[GT Pony]

Keep in mind wall mounts are attached directly to the wall, not to a metal frame. So, they are only as good as your wall. Also, if the power goes out, they can not be detached so the door can be opened manually. That's what the garage door company told me when we bought a new opener.

Good point about possibly not being able to disconnect the wall mount opener from the door. Seems like a wall mount opener could be designed to have some kind of gear system that could be put in "neutral" so to speak so the door could be opened manually.

I've had to open my garage door manually a few times because of power outage and also when the safety sensors went out and wouldn't open.

 

[BlackandBlue]

Most 16ft garage door spring need somewhere in the range of 7.5 twist to properly counter balance. My spring broke several years back and I set mine to be weightless about 3/4 of the way up. It probably weights about ~15 pounds completely at the ground. So the most the opener should ever see is 15 pounds of actual weight force plus the acceleration of the door. The door rod should have zero problems with that setup.

I did look at those when I replaced my opener but just picked up a belt model instead. It is super quiet. I am also glad I did because recently one of my cables broke due to a bad bearing on the door rod. It was nice not having to deal with the opener also when changing both the bearing and resetting the spring torque.( Oil those bearings once a year)

Edit. My opener came with a battery backup and I would imagine many of the new wall mount models have the same feature. Just a guess

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Keep in mind wall mounts are attached directly to the wall, not to a metal frame. So, they are only as good as your wall. Also, if the power goes out, they can not be detached so the door can be opened manually. That's what the garage door company told me when we bought a new opener.

With a ceiling mount the door can't turn the motor due to the screw, belt or chain operation. Essentially the same as worm gears where only one can drive the other. Exact opposite with wall mount. Moving the door either direction just turns the motor shaft directly. Even a kid can do it. So wall mounts require a separate device to lock the door.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Seems the wall mount opener motor is simply turning the long rod that the door counter weight wind up springs are on. As long as that long shaft can take the opener's input torque the garage door should still open and close without much force because of the big wound up counter weight springs.

If those counter weight springs are adjusted correctly (per the door installation instructions) you should be able to open and close the garage door simply by hand without much effort. And if those springs are adjusted correctly, the torque required by the wall mounted opener to open the door should also be pretty low. What's the torque output of the wall mounted opener?

Yes. What I don't know is how much twist I'd get. Any difference would effectively delay the far side starting to lift which will try to cock the hinges, rollers, etc. I agree the springs will minimize the resistance from the far end.

But it worries me that twisting the shaft would have zero effect with an overhead as long as each half of the shaft twists the same amount. That suggests not putting much emphasis on torsional rigidity in design or manufacturing, particularly for my 36 year old shaft.

I read many reports of no problems for x years but I doubt many if any are with such old AND wide doors. Plus I know I can get 10 years at least with a new overhead. I'm already in my 70s and lliking hassles less each year.

The only advantage of a wall mount I really cared about was the ease of DIY installation. Not sure that offsets potential problems with the wall mount, such as I've described plus other things like having the door unlocked without knowing it due to some issue with the separate locking device.

So still mulling it over.

 

[GT Pony]

Yes. What I don't know is how much twist I'd get. Any difference would effectively delay the far side starting to lift which will try to cock the hinges, rollers, etc. I agree the springs will minimize the resistance from the far end.

If the springs are essentially doing all the lifting like they are suppise to do, the opener won't be putting much torque into the rod. Just enough to lift a properly counter weighted door. If the springs were big enough and wound up enough, they would lift the door with no added torque to the rod. The rod will see small torque, so it shouldn't try and twist unless it's super thin wall. What's the rod OD and wall thickness?

Does the wall mount garage door opener installation instructions say what the free floating closed door weight should be when the torsional counter weight springs are correctly adjusted? Yeah, the separate door lock seems like a hassle, not knowing the details.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

The rod will see small torque, so it shouldn't try and twist unless it's super thin wall. What's the rod OD and wall thickness?

Would have to measure but would still not know the material. These are a minimum of 36 years old plus how old they were when the builder bought the batch used on my home. I took a lot of pictures during construction but none of any labels on the box the shaft came in.

Does the wall mount garage door opener installation instructions say what the free floating closed door weight should be when the torsional counter weight springs are correctly adjusted?

I'm sure they do BUT they also have a maximum door weight regardless of the spring setting.That suggests to me the inertia, not just weight or spring compensation matter. I don't know how to evaluate that.

Yeah, the separate door lock seems like a hassle, not knowing the details.

Yeah. Unless the opener confirms the lock is working by attempting to move the door after activating the locking device (and maybe it does), I'd rather not have exposure and another thing to maintain and manually test.

 

[GT Pony]

I'm sure they do BUT they also have a maximum door weight regardless of the spring setting.That suggests to me the inertia, not just weight or spring compensation matter. I don't know how to evaluate that.

What kind of max door weight do they show? You would have to know your specific door model spec, or disconnect the torsion springs to be able to measure the dead weight with a scale. From experience, those torsion springs are dangerous to mess with, lots of stored energy.

Seems the inertia factor would be pretty low since garage doors don't open very fast, but maybe the opener motor is pretty small or sensitive to initial movement max inrush load? They give a motor power rating (ie, 2 HP)?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Conflicting Max door weight specs. 650 or 850 lbs. I have no idea what my 16x7 door weighs but suspect under 650

Horsepower could not be found on manufacturers website. Menards claims 3/4.

My torsion bar appears to be the required 1" diameter (haven't climbed up to measure)

My track radius is 15" (optimal for opener)

Find this interesting from the manufacturer (LiftMaster, Chaimberlain, Craftsman). Only other manufacturer I am aware of is Genie.

Residential Jackshaft Openers (RJO) are intended for garages and unique applications that don't allow for a traditional garage door opener

That reads like ceiling mount is preferred.

Think I'll stick with overhead. Devil I know.

 

[raptor17GT]

Conflicting Max door weight specs. 650 or 850 lbs. I have no idea what my 16x7 door weighs but suspect under 650

Horsepower could not be found on manufacturers website. Menards claims 3/4.

My torsion bar appears to be the required 1" diameter (haven't climbed up to measure)

My track radius is 15" (optimal for opener)

Find this interesting from the manufacturer (LiftMaster, Chaimberlain, Craftsman). Only other manufacturer I am aware of is Genie.



That reads like ceiling mount is preferred.

Think I'll stick with overhead. Devil I know.

that's a shame, the wall mounted unit looked a brilliant space saver.

 

[FKE SNK]

I've got a Liftmaster for both of my 16x8 fully insulated doors. These are not light and yet they open/close level side to side

No issues and super quiet operation. Bonus - they have battery backup for when the power goes out.

The only drawback to me would be price - not confidence in operation

 

[Strokerswild]

that's a shame, the wall mounted unit looked a brilliant space saver.

This. That's a bummer.

Timely topic. I'm sort of in the same boat in my shop, which has one 16x8' and one 8x8' overhead. When I built it in 2004, I installed insulated Wayne-Dalton doors that could be had with these slick center/wall mount openers (I think they're called iDrive) that slipped over the torque tube, which have the torsion springs internal. These openers have been trouble-free (probably because I had the doors adjusted perfectly), but apparently they were problematic enough for some (plenty of horror stories online) that they're now obsolete.

So here I am planning ahead for the inevitable, and cringing at the thought of having to have overhead openers in there down the road after almost two decades of nothing hanging there. I installed a belt-drive Genie with battery backup in my attached garage last fall and really like it, so maybe I just need to plan on a pair of those so spare parts are common.

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