US EPA killing engine mods

[GR11M]

The EPA is cracking down in the US, Lund has been raided because tuning increases emissions and is also rumored to be why the nGauge makers E-Motion shut down. I've also seen another company, Stainless Works, have informed their customers they will no longer be selling parts labelled for off road use. It looks to be affecting modifications to the exhaust, cats and tuning, and also includes E85 and diesel. considering Americans drive massive V8 trucks and SUVs and this would kill off the after market engine parts industry, it all seems a bit OTT.

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[51NNED]

Welcome to the new world order

 

[CVCashmere]

Sounds like the early 1970's all over again! I lived that...and hated it!!! I watched every good car go down the toilet after 1970...it took years to get the performance back!!

Each political party has its own area of emphasis when it comes to the EPA.

Changing a cat-back exhaust system does not impact the environment...except in California where they have stupid laws about it.

CVCashmere

 

[sk47]

Sounds like the early 1970's all over again! I lived that...and hated it!!! I watched every good car go down the toilet after 1970...it took years to get the performance back!!

Each political party has its own area of emphasis when it comes to the EPA.

Changing a cat-back exhaust system does not impact the environment...except in California where they have stupid laws about it.

CVCashmere

Hello; Yes to your post. Let me add that back in the 1970's the insurance companies got into the mix as well.
I suspect they will be going after my wood stove as well. The folks in charge now have an agenda.

 

[kz]

Changing a cat-back exhaust system does not impact the environment...except in California where they have stupid laws about it.

CVCashmere

I am not sure you understand this at all - this has nothing to do with catback exhausts that are and will be legal. Catless headers is what it's about and I am glad they're doing something about it because removing cats for few hp that 99% of people doing it will never ever consistently use is just plain stupid.

 

[FreePenguin]

I am not sure you understand this at all - this has nothing to do with catback exhausts that are and will be legal. Catless headers is what it's about and I am glad they're doing something about it because removing cats for few hp that 99% of people doing it will never ever consistently use is just plain stupid.

you are supporting the ruining of our creativity with our cars. shouldn't care what others do with their cars. it doesn't affect you

 

[sk47]

you are supporting the ruining of our creativity with our cars. shouldn't care what others do with their cars. it doesn't affect you

Hello; While I tend to agree with the sentiment of let us do what we want with our cars, there is a point that those who disagree can make. That being removing the pollution controls allows some extra amount of pollutants into the air we all share.
I could go into some of the convoluted thinking of those folks. Maybe pointing out how over a few decades the strict regulations that were placed on passenger cars were more strict that on light trucks and SUV's. So as cars became less attractive, smaller and underpowered large numbers of folks started buying pickups and SUV's. The companies started making the trucks and SUV's more carlike in response. So now we have huge numbers of these less fuel efficient vehicles on the road and much fewer more efficient sedans and hatchbacks. But why bother talking about that?

I also will not go into the notions some have that a country which emits twice as much CO2, China, as the USA emits should get less restrictions and the USA should get more restrictions. This was discussed in another thread on this site recently.

I plan to keep my wood stove. I do not build a fire every day. Mostly on the coldest days and when the power goes out.

More recently I have been seeing stories about how bad the particles which wear off out tires are for the environment. I probably have an opinion about that as well.

 

[luc]

you are supporting the ruining of our creativity with our cars. shouldn't care what others do with their cars. it doesn't affect you

Smart answer. Obviously you believe that you are only polluting your own air

 

[luc]

Hello; While I tend to agree with the sentiment of let us do what we want with our cars, there is a point that those who disagree can make. That being removing the pollution controls allows some extra amount of pollutants into the air we all share.
I could go into some of the convoluted thinking of those folks. Maybe pointing out how over a few decades the strict regulations that were placed on passenger cars were more strict that on light trucks and SUV's. So as cars became less attractive, smaller and underpowered large numbers of folks started buying pickups and SUV's. The companies started making the trucks and SUV's more carlike in response. So now we have huge numbers of these less fuel efficient vehicles on the road and much fewer more efficient sedans and hatchbacks. But why bother talking about that?

I also will not go into the notions some have that a country which emits twice as much CO2, China, as the USA emits should get less restrictions and the USA should get more restrictions. This was discussed in another thread on this site recently.

I plan to keep my wood stove. I do not build a fire every day. Mostly on the coldest days and when the power goes out.

More recently I have been seeing stories about how bad the particles which wear off out tires are for the environment. I probably have an opinion about that as well.

You do make some good and intelligent points

 

[Supersolo]

The EPA is cracking down in the US, Lund has been raided because tuning increases emissions and is also rumored to be why the nGauge makers E-Motion shut down. I've also seen another company, Stainless Works, have informed their customers they will no longer be selling parts labelled for off road use. It looks to be affecting modifications to the exhaust, cats and tuning, and also includes E85 and diesel. considering Americans drive massive V8 trucks and SUVs and this would kill off the after market engine parts industry, it all seems a bit OTT.

There's appears to be a convergence of several factors, on this subject.
Some auto OEMs produce & install cheap, inefficient CATs, which are a low cost compromise between cost & emissions compliance.
I'm learning a hard & expensive lesson about how the tuning market is learning (at customers expense) that these new CAT & GPF assemblies fitted to new cars, are difficult to tune for / with.
I've had a tuner tell me I need to "delete" the CAT&GPF from my car...
Which is tacit admission they are struggling with new exhaust system requirements, put in place by a regional regulator.
Not sure about the U.S. but in the U.K. our Mustangs get a cheap & nasty CAT which also includes a GPF.
So I see all this as a threat to anyone selling stuff like super chargers, because the damn exhaust won't flow well enough to make the cost of installing such a modification, worth while.
I've little doubt the after market here in the U.K. will be reconsidering what to offer, in light of the introduction of the GPF.

With regard the cost & hassle I've had.
My advice would be caution & lots of research & assurances from suppliers about subsequent results & costs related to fitting their engine mods to your car.

 

[WD Pro]

From my very 'selfish and uneducated' viewpoint, I do wonder if this will help the UK tuning options in the future ?

It would appear that UK cat based tuning options are limited as in the USA where the bulk of our options originate from, it's just easier to take them off.

If the stateside tuners are forced to work with them - will that open the door for more UK support and more available options ?

Do USA get the GPF ? If not, will they get it soon with how things are changing over there ? I wonder if the 'Euro' mustang will become the 'norm' ... ?

WD

 

[Supersolo]

From my very 'selfish and uneducated' viewpoint, I do wonder if this will help the UK tuning options in the future ?

It would appear that UK cat based tuning options are limited as in the USA where the bulk of our options originate from, it's just easier to take them off.

If the stateside tuners are forced to work with them - will that open the door for more UK support and more available options ?

Do USA get the GPF ? If not, will they get it soon with how things are changing over there ? I wonder if the 'Euro' mustang will become the 'norm' ... ?

WD

As you say, with respect to tuning your >2018MY, S550 V8, GPF equiped, Mustang.
I'd say the options are fewer, IF, one wishes to retain the CAT-GPF assembly on their exhaust.

IME, while we are mostly reliant on the U.S. for tuning, this results in U.K. owners being offered tuning techniques and equipment which may comply with U.S. regs, but will not pass U.K. / E.U. regs.
I've tried to find out if U.S. Post 2018MY V8s have a GPF, but I've not received a conclusive answer.
Perhaps variations for vehicle emissions at state level, mean there's no federal mandate for the universal fitment of a GPF??

When we see OEMs such as Ferrari and McLaren produce 600BHP+ V8s for the U.K. which presumably comply with the U.K.'s latest emissions requirements, including the fitment of a GPF.
It seems to indicate not all CAT & GPF assemblies are created "equal" and then when you consider the price difference, between a Mustang GT and a 488, perhaps we might expect the Ford CAT to perform poorly, in comparison, for tuning?

 

[GR11M]

I thought the GPF on >2018 models were on EU only due to the stricter emissions laws. Obviously my 2016 GT doesn't have one and even with high flow green cats it still passes the UK MOT emissions tests.

 

[Supersolo]

I thought the GPF on >2018 models were on EU only due to the stricter emissions laws. Obviously my 2016 GT doesn't have one and even with high flow green cats it still passes the UK MOT emissions tests.

I have a 2019MY GT and it has the CAT & GPF combo.
The dust bins on the exhaust just after the exhaust manifolds, have wires connected to them for a pressure sensor.
When the pressure inside the CAT exceeds a certain threshold, the driver receives a warning in the instrument cluster.

Interesting comment about the AM CATs you mentioned.
There seems to be some variation in the experience of different owners and the effectiveness of AM CATs ref the U.K. MoT emissions test...

 

[GR11M]

Mine had quite a bit of leeway with the emissions using Kooks LTH and high flow green cats.

It would be interesting to see whether the MOT emissions limit for the >2018 are the same as the <2018 S550s

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