Upgrades - s550

[Cati]

Just read the CAR review of the Mustang and as a base platform I think they nailed it

So any plans on upgrades?

Me?

1. new wheels and rubber - 19 or 20s - staggered fit with toyos or nittos - they work really well on the last mustang so my first port of call here

2. Needs lowering for looks and to reduce height of mass - BMR or Eibach

3. Thinking about coil overs - Lethal performance are great, they just listed a ISK coil over set - which might address point 2 as well

4. Front and rear antiroll bars - might go for bigger and more adjustment

5. Been reading about reinforce the IRS cage - but personally think I will replace some of the rubber bushings first as this tends to be the main culprit - want to avoid NVH

6. Exhausts - not sure if go quads tips toush or spring for GT350 pipes and rear facia - bit pricey

7. Oh forgot - strut brace !

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[Manders Mustang]

8. Whipple

9. Remap

10. New tyres because of points 1-9.

 

[Gibbo205]

Just read the CAR review of the Mustang and as a base platform I think they nailed it

So any plans on upgrades?

Me?

1. new wheels and rubber - 19 or 20s - staggered fit with toyos or nittos - they work really well on the last mustang so my first port of call here

2. Needs lowering for looks and to reduce height of mass - BMR or Eibach

3. Thinking about coil overs - Lethal performance are great, they just listed a ISK coil over set - which might address point 2 as well

4. Front and rear antiroll bars - might go for bigger and more adjustment

5. Been reading about reinforce the IRS cage - but personally think I will replace some of the rubber bushings first as this tends to be the main culprit - want to avoid NVH

6. Exhausts - not sure if go quads tips toush or spring for GT350 pipes and rear facia - bit pricey

7. Oh forgot - strut brace !

1. Michelin MPSS, PS4, Goodyear F1AS2/3, Conticontact 6 offer better dry grip, vastly more wet grip and better longevity compared to Toyo, I had Toyo T1R, R1R and R888 and I also had the miss-fortune to try T1S once, shocking tyre, T1R is OK but soft, R1R overpriced and better options, R888 superb in dry, but noisy tyre and not good in wet.

2. Yes, lowering springs on standard shocks works, but you will reduce the life of the shocks vastly, I'd advice getting a fully matched kit, FRPP handling kit or a KW coilover kit.

3. Never buy cheaper coilovers, NEVER, KW, Ohlins or STX are all German/UK made, avoid chinese coilovers like the plague they are terrible.

4. FRPP kit includes these, but FRPP, Steeda, BMR all good choices.

5. Replacing rubber bushes for poly or solid will create noticable NVH, what works very well is the Steeda bushing insert kit, go with red, works well with no NVH added.

6. Corsa Sport (V8 rumble) or extreme (V8 exotic nascar) with quad pipes and rear valance to suite.

7. Hold fire, seems most don't fit or require modification, best to go with G-trac brace from Steeda for now.

 

[Cati]

Gibbo - Kind of agree but

Roush are made in china they have a horrendous rep with their shocks on the 197. FRRP - had the kit shocks and springs on the 197 - not so sure about going down that route again - the springs and shocks were not that refined

A lot of the s197 guys have been running lowering springs on ford shocks and don't seem to have the issue you mention. some have gone up to very high mileages.

I think we might have to disagree on Toyo not had the same experience regarding grip. Noise wise I cant comment as my mustang was NVH hell, but in a good way. Very handling focussed so that came at a price

 

[Gibbo205]

Gibbo - Kind of agree but

Roush are made in china they have a horrendous rep with their shocks on the 197. FRRP - had the kit shocks and springs on the 197 - not so sure about going down that route again - the springs and shocks were not that refined

A lot of the s197 guys have been running lowering springs on ford shocks and don't seem to have the issue you mention. some have gone up to very high mileages.

I think we might have to disagree on Toyo not had the same experience regarding grip. Noise wise I cant comment as my mustang was NVH hell, but in a good way. Very handling focussed so that came at a price

On the S550 the Roush shocks are made by KW. ;)
However just buy KW, same shock as Roush but cost less as Roush are charging for their name.
Or if you don't want the galvanised shock body, buy STX, again built by KW.

If your aware how a damper works, it is designed for a specific spring, ride height and range of movement, so shortening the spring, shorterns the dampers life. People don't notice dampers becoming inferior because it happens slowly over a long period so it goes un-noticed, but if say after 40,000 miles you were to put new dampers on after running the car for 40,000 miles on lowering springs then you would do it.

Yes the FRPP kit on the S197 was made by Tokico and was average at best, but it seems the S550 kit is a lot better, read the feedback on this very forum, no bad comments whatsoever, a vast improvement over stock PP suspension with lowering springs, just do a search.

By all means fit just lowering springs if your only goal is improved looks and stance, but if you actually value handling characteristics and ride quality then please do it properly and buy uprated dampers or a complete package, I mean come on at $1015 its not like the FRPP package is overpriced, you get full set of dampers, springs, anti-roll bars, bushes and shorterned bump stops. So if your planning on springs and roll bars its not really much more to just get a full kit.

You can only disagree with me buddy on Toyo if you have actually tried the other tyres I mentioned, if not then what are you basing your decision on, internet or being down the pub with your buddies and all raving about Toyo's because the internet says they are good and you tried nothing else?

I've tried and tested pretty much every tyre, a good friend of mine also owns a tyre review company that get to test every brand of tyre, when it comes to tyres I've being fortunate to test most of them or can find out for you, but having owned Toyo, Michelin, Bridgestone, Yokohama, Continental, Pirelli and tried pretty much all of them on my M3 and 911, I can tell you Toyo are average at best, Yokohama and Michelin for example completely destroy them in every field and every test you want to conduct, its not myth, its factual, if you don't believe me go and read some reviews where a Toyo which is a mainstream tyre by the way is put against a flagship Summer tyre, they get raped. Just trying to help you out mate, tyres are the single most important item on your car, those four pieces of rubber keep your car on the black stuff.

 

[Cati]

Gibbo

Yes I am familiar with dampers and the need to match damping rebound and Spring rate. yes i am familiar with those tyres. And a regular contributor to Messr Michelin sales figures....And I still hold the same view. I have yet to have the privilege of owning a 911 but on other cars you mention and then some I have been indeed fortunate to try tyres. Normally French rubber is the best, conti not so sure. Jap rubber is under rated and on a mustang it seems to work well. But like Pirelli phantoms .....

 

[Gibbo205]

Gibbo

Yes I am familiar with dampers and the need to match damping rebound and Spring rate. yes i am familiar with those tyres. And a regular contributor to Messr Michelin sales figures....And I still hold the same view. I have yet to have the privilege of owning a 911 but on other cars you mention and then some I have been indeed fortunate to try tyres. Normally French rubber is the best, conti not so sure. Jap rubber is under rated and on a mustang it seems to work well. But like Pirelli phantoms .....

Its OK I just wanted to point out the Roush coilover kit is not made in China any more, its KW, so decent part.

Just sharing my experience, on my Mustang I had Toyo T1 Sport, Pzero and PS2, even the Pzero was better than the T1R and the PS2 a vast improvement.

On the 911 I ran Pzero, Bridgestone, Goodyear F1AS2, Michelin PS2, MPSS, Cups, Pirelli Corsa. I got through a lot of tyres because I did a lot of track work in the 911.

On the M3, still own this car I've had Goodyear F1AS2, Rainsport 3, Advan V105, Michelin PS2, MPSS, Cups, Falken RS-R, Vredstein Sessanta, T1R, Contisport 3. Will be trying the new cup 2's in the Summer. For wet performance soley, Rainsport 3 is leagues ahead of anything both road and track. F1AS2 is a good all rounder but is too soft. On the road MPSS and V105 has proven to be the best and on track the cups and MPSS were awesome in the dry and the MPSS much better in the wet. The T1R after 2000 miles were removed and binned, sorry but totally crap tyre that does not belong on any sports car.

On the EVO X I had Toyo R1R, R888 and these are not so bad, the R1R is OK but is lacking compared to MPSS and PS2, but was on parr on track in dry. The R888 is superb in dry on track, but the road noise is horrendous and standing water well they are as bad as michelin cups, be careful. The best tyre on the EVO for all round use was actually the AD08, the mega stiff sidewalls really suited the EVO well and made the car come alive and even though they were not the best wet tyre, the AWD system makes up for it.

I've tried the newer T1 Sport and T1R on numerous vehicles and never found them good sorry, all the premium brands are not just fancy marketing, they are actually better tyres.

If you don't agree with me just check tyre reviews where Toyo is up against premium brands, they get embarrassed, not only that the T1S and T1R are pretty old tyres, why fit old designed tyres when there is brand new tyres now available with latest technology for improved grip, handling, feel and most importantly longevity. It is the thing I love most about the Michelin Super Sports, they lasted twice the miles and more than twice the track laps than any other tyre I tried, so for the £20 premium per tyre in the end I saved hundreds.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2015-EVO-Magazine-Performance-Tyre-Test.htm

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2015-Auto-Review-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2015-Australian-Motor-235-35-R19-Tyre-Test.htm

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2015-Market-Overview-Braking-Test.htm







This website is great for comparing tyres, as they collect up all the reviews for all tyres and put them in one place.

The latest tyre from Toyo Proxes T1 Sport replaces the T1R which replaced the T1S does not do so well, only manages top 3 in one review and that was simply because it was not up against such stiff competition and more mid-range tyres. As soon as it goes up against premium tyres, it gets beaten every time:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Toyo/Proxes-T1-Sport.htm


I just don't want people buying tyres for their Mustangs when for pretty much the same money they can buy tyres that grip better in all conditions, have shorter braking distances and even more important last longer.

 

[Cati]

You da man then....

 

[Manders Mustang]

I just don't want people buying tyres for their Mustangs when for pretty much the same money they can buy tyres that grip better in all conditions, have shorter braking distances and even more important last longer.

In short for the slightly less rubbery fanatics, tyre choice for the EB, and tyre choice for the GT? For Daily driving (as i'm assuming that's what 'Most' here will have their cars for).

 

[Gibbo205]

In short for the slightly less rubbery fanatics, tyre choice for the EB, and tyre choice for the GT? For Daily driving (as i'm assuming that's what 'Most' here will have their cars for).

You should still fit quality tyres, end of the day its nearly a 40k sports car so please no one go saving money on the thing that keeps your car on the road. So please no ling longs or budgets on these cars.

I'd recommend for a daily driven car where grip/safety is a must and the fact it rains so much in the UK to go for the following:
Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Michelin Pilit Sport 4
Goodyear Eagle F1AS2
Goodyear Eagle F1AS3
Yokohama Advan V105
Rainsport 3
Continental Sport Contact 6


The above all do exceptionally well in wet and colder conditions, they are also great in the dry and offer good levels of feedback.

Of course tyres such as Michelin cup 2's, Yokohama AD08R's, Pirelli Corsa/Trofeo R's do offer more dry grip at expensive of wet grip and tyre life, they are also semi-R tyre so really only recommended for those who intend on tracking their car.

 

[Manders Mustang]

You should still fit quality tyres, end of the day its nearly a 40k sports car so please no one go saving money on the thing that keeps your car on the road. So please no ling longs or budgets on these cars.

I'd recommend for a daily driven car where grip/safety is a must and the fact it rains so much in the UK to go for the following:
Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Michelin Pilit Sport 4
Goodyear Eagle F1AS2
Goodyear Eagle F1AS3
Yokohama Advan V105
Rainsport 3
Continental Sport Contact 6


The above all do exceptionally well in wet and colder conditions, they are also great in the dry and offer good levels of feedback.

Of course tyres such as Michelin cup 2's, Yokohama AD08R's, Pirelli Corsa/Trofeo R's do offer more dry grip at expensive of wet grip and tyre life, they are also semi-R tyre so really only recommended for those who intend on tracking their car.

Brilliant little write up for me there, i'll save that one in my folder ;).

Think i'll go for the MPSS' as they seem to generally be getting the good reviews from everyone, i'm fortunate enough that for a small price a friend will swap out the Pzeros for 'like' tyres. So will speak to him about swapping the Pzeros for MPSS' when the car comes - aka brand new few mile tyres for brand new MPSS'

I wouldn't dare stinge out buying some cr4p dunlop tyres or nexen or whatever other cheap brands for the Mustang, that'd be a death wish! (Only two brands I know as they're the two different brands sat on my corsa, but 80bhp doesn't warrant nice tyres!)

 

[stiggy]

You should still fit quality tyres, end of the day its nearly a 40k sports car so please no one go saving money on the thing that keeps your car on the road. So please no ling longs or budgets on these cars.

I'd recommend for a daily driven car where grip/safety is a must and the fact it rains so much in the UK to go for the following:
Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Michelin Pilit Sport 4
Goodyear Eagle F1AS2
Goodyear Eagle F1AS3
Yokohama Advan V105
Rainsport 3
Continental Sport Contact 6


The above all do exceptionally well in wet and colder conditions, they are also great in the dry and offer good levels of feedback.

Of course tyres such as Michelin cup 2's, Yokohama AD08R's, Pirelli Corsa/Trofeo R's do offer more dry grip at expensive of wet grip and tyre life, they are also semi-R tyre so really only recommended for those who intend on tracking their car.

Just to add - for those on a budget, as per Gibbo's list, Uniroyal Rainsport 3's are absolutely untouchable at the price for general driving, but they will go off a quicker when driven hard (read on track). But hey, when 99% of most poeple's driving is road anyway, it's a fair compromise.

 

[Gibbo205]

Brilliant little write up for me there, i'll save that one in my folder ;).

Think i'll go for the MPSS' as they seem to generally be getting the good reviews from everyone, i'm fortunate enough that for a small price a friend will swap out the Pzeros for 'like' tyres. So will speak to him about swapping the Pzeros for MPSS' when the car comes - aka brand new few mile tyres for brand new MPSS'

I wouldn't dare stinge out buying some cr4p dunlop tyres or nexen or whatever other cheap brands for the Mustang, that'd be a death wish! (Only two brands I know as they're the two different brands sat on my corsa, but 80bhp doesn't warrant nice tyres!)

The MPSS cost more, but only at the beginning.

For comparison on longevity, Michelin PS2 only lasted 3 track days and 5000 road miles in my 911.

The MPSS for comparison did 10 track days and 10,000 road miles, more than twice the distance and three times more track days. So in the long run you save big time.

The Pzero is also a very fast wearing tyre, Michelin are kings in tyre longevity amazing considering how well the tyres perform also.

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