Uh.....Guys?

[Condor1970]

You guys are more committed than I am. I had the rattle and believe the beginning of the tick. That combined with the potential transmission issues led me to just trading it in on a 19 1SS manual Camaro. Chevy offers an additional $2k rebate for mustang owners (if you ask for it). Lost a bit of dough but for me it was worth the piece of mind not having to deal with engine or transmission replacements.

Funny you mention that. My Suburban eventually need a new engine at 90k, and a tranny at 120k. Still going though, but not the most reliable rig out there. I'm still in the Toyota and Subie camp if really want reliability.
The only North American cars I ever owned that didn't need a new engine or transmission at 100k, is my old '91Jeep Cherokee XJ. The drivetrain was pretty bombproof. Everything else broke though. And I mean EVERYTHING !!!

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[foxcoupefan]

I'm still in the Toyota and Subie camp if really want reliability.

I had a brand new 2014 WRX at the end of 2013. With 4500miles on the clock, the car had six different CELs with two of them happening multiple times, burned a quart of oil every 400 to 500 miles, steering went out twice, and at one point was running on two cyl with no CEL!. hahaha.. Yes, all that in 4500 miles. It was a complete piece of crap.

My sister in-law just bought America's favorite boring car last year, a new Camry (2019). At 300 miles developed a rod knock. It now has a new engine.

 

[bootlegger]

I had a brand new 2014 WRX at the end of 2013. With 4500miles on the clock, the car had six different CELs with two of them happening multiple times, burned a quart of oil every 400 to 500 miles, steering went out twice, and at one point was running on two cyl with no CEL!. hahaha.. Yes, all that in 4500 miles. It was a complete piece of crap.

My sister in-law just bought America's favorite boring car last year, a new Camry (2019). At 300 miles developed a rod knock. It now has a new engine.

Turbo Subies have always been hit or miss with quality. N/A generally have more luck. My dad is on his 3rd Legacy 4cyl. He is the worst person in the world when it comes to maintenance, and he also loves to hit things. Somehow, the first 2 made it well over 100k miles before he traded them in. Meanwhile, my STI knocked like crazy at 10k miles on a stock tune and 93 octane gas.

 

[jake_zx2]

Yeah, boosted Subarus are anything but reliable... or fast. Toyota and Honda would've been a more accurate assessment

I find it staggering that someone would trade in (and lose A LOT of money on) a brand new warrantied car simply because some dudes on the internet made him scared because his engine makes engine noises. Just relax guys, it really isn't that big of a deal. Coyotes have had a tick since they debuted, and there's plenty of high mile coyotes out there ticking on down the drag strip. No need to panic and throw away logic

 

[Ace21]

@Condor1970 while this is a very interesting find, your explanation of how the noise the tensioner is silencing is "piston slap" and how "piston slap" is incurred in this modern engine is absolutely absurd. No amount of factory forward auxiliary pressure will out of round that many crank bearings unless there is major core-shift from the casting factory. In which case a tick or rattle would be the least of your engine bomb worries.

Please research piston slap and how it is incurred in a engine that uses hypereutectic pistons (HINT it has to do with manufacturing defects in the realm of casting core-shift, hence why a lot of 18+ owners with scoring are seeing it in cylinder 3). The tick at idle is a completely different beast from the rattle, and both are not yet confirmed as a cause to the 18+ cylinder wall markings.

I am by no means saying that this is not a solution to something, but please lets keep everyone in the know of actual factual information. Misinformation will only make it harder for our community to find the solutions, because we all know Ford is not bending over backwards to sort it out.

 

[Condor1970]

@Condor1970 while this is a very interesting find, your explanation of how the noise the tensioner is silencing is "piston slap" and how "piston slap" is incurred in this modern engine is absolutely absurd. No amount of factory forward auxiliary pressure will out of round that many crank bearings unless there is major core-shift from the casting factory. In which case a tick or rattle would be the least of your engine bomb worries.

Please research piston slap and how it is incurred in a engine that uses hypereutectic pistons (HINT it has to do with manufacturing defects in the realm of casting core-shift, hence why a lot of 18+ owners with scoring are seeing it in cylinder 3). The tick at idle is a completely different beast from the rattle, and both are not yet confirmed as a cause to the 18+ cylinder wall markings.

I am by no means saying that this is not a solution to something, but please lets keep everyone in the know of actual factual information. Misinformation will only make it harder for our community to find the solutions, because we all know Ford is not bending over backwards to sort it out.

The tick not being the main cause of #3 cylinder scoring is definitely something I agree with you as NOT being related. I had a very noticeable tick for quite as long time (months), and after my oil change, I inspected the filter, and strained ALL 10qts of used oil. I found maybe 6 flea-sized flakes. That for a new engine is quite normal, imo.

I have at no time said this ticking sound is "absolutely" piston slap, or the noise the tensioner subdued was piston slap. The explanation I gave is just a theory based on the results I achieved. If this ticking sound is some mild piston slap, I have no idea exactly why adding a tension arm would change it. My explanation really is just a theory, and I never said it was an end all be all explanation. It's possible if this tick is some sort of oil flow issue, or cavitation, that maybe adding the tension arm also affects the tension on the crank in a way that helps alleviate it. That is also a possibility. Until Ford actually gives us an absolute explanation as to what the noise is, and what causes it, we can only guess with ideas and theories.

I said, when I added the tensioner, some of the thudding like tick that was heard up to about 1,700rpm is now basically gone. For all I know it could have been some extra noise associated to the AC compressor itself. Maybe too much tension on the compressor cause bearing noise or something. At first I thought it wasn't the AC compressor, but it may very well be some of what I was hearing. Or perhaps the tick is some noise caused by oil flow issues in the main bearings, which is affected by tension being changed by adding a tension arm. These are only theories. All I know, is for me it helped. For others, it makes no difference at all.

Ford did say that for the Powerstrokes, the typewriter tick is some kind of oil flow issue, and it's not a problem. Then they said to alleviate some of the typewriter tick noise in the 2011 Mustangs, try using an AC tension arm in the TSB they issued. So, it may not be piston slap. I'm fully able to accept that, and never said it absolutely was. In fact, I said that from the very beginning.

What I will say with certainty, is for Ford to use a A/C stretchy belt is just poor engineering. If it was a superior way of doing business, then all the F-150's would use it. Ford only does this for the Mustang to save money, and a pound of weight. It's kind of cheesy, if you ask me.

 

[GT Pony]

I said, when I added the tensioner, some of the thudding like tick that was heard up to about 1,700rpm is now basically gone. For all I know it could have been some extra noise associated to the AC compressor itself. Maybe too much tension on the compressor cause bearing noise or something. At first I thought it wasn't the AC compressor, but it may very well be some of what I was hearing. Or perhaps the tick is some noise caused by oil flow issues in the main bearings, which is affected by tension being changed by adding a tension arm. These are only theories. All I know, is for me it helped. For others, it makes no difference at all.

Or it could have been a flaw or inconsistency in the original belt ... and putting a new belt on with the tensioner kit cured the thudding noise.

 

[Condor1970]

Or it could have been a flaw or inconsistency in the original belt ... and putting a new belt on with the tensioner kit cured the thudding noise.

No, I really don't think it was. That belt was pristine when I took it off. If it was flawed that much, it would have made noise from the beginning, which it didn't. The belt was essentially brand new at only about 3,000 miles when I took it off.
That tick was definitely something internal.

I'm starting to fall into the stack camp now, since maybe that tension arm pulling differently on the mains has an affect on it, and oil flow somehow. All I know, is the noise quite noticeably subdued. Not all, since I still have a slight 2k rattle, which I have absolutely no idea what that is.

 

[accel]

Or it could have been a flaw or inconsistency in the original belt ... and putting a new belt on with the tensioner kit cured the thudding noise.

Were they replacing blocks as well?

Its interesting if you think about it.

Like, were thet replacing blocks just to be able to fit new tensioner, or, were they replacing block because they were already "damaged" as well?

 

[Dfeeds]

No, I really don't think it was. That belt was pristine when I took it off. If it was flawed that much, it would have made noise from the beginning, which it didn't. The belt was essentially brand new at only about 3,000 miles when I took it off.
That tick was definitely something internal.

I'm starting to fall into the stack camp now, since maybe that tension arm pulling differently on the mains has an affect on it, and oil flow somehow. All I know, is the noise quite noticeably subdued. Not all, since I still have a slight 2k rattle, which I have absolutely no idea what that is.

I confess... I sneak into the factory at night and install one of those small kid's toys that rattle around. I have it hooked up by the IMRC so when it moves it rattles. Unfortunately it blocks some airflow and causes the passenger side to run rich. All these fools that think their catch can will save them! Muwahahahaha!

 

[Ace21]

I have at no time said this ticking sound is "absolutely" piston slap, or the noise the tensioner subdued was piston slap. The explanation I gave is just a theory based on the results I achieved. If this ticking sound is some mild piston slap, I have no idea exactly why adding a tension arm would change it. My explanation really is just a theory, and I never said it was an end all be all explanation.

Sorry I must have misread this:

No, the tick is not the belt itself, or the A/C compressor. The tick is "piston slap".

Think about it like this. The connecting rods are connected to the crankshaft perpendicularly with journal bearings and pistons riding up and down in a cylinder at 45 degrees off vertical. To prevent issues, the crankshaft must stay perfectly aligned to the engine block at all times. Now, look at both serpentine belts. The Main serpentine has its auxiliaries mounted to the left and upward to the crankshaft. Those auxiliaries are pulling upward and to the left by the tension arm to the up and left of the crankshaft. Now, the problem is the A/C compressor is mounted 90 degrees to the right, and the belt is pulling the crankshaft directly to the right, not up and to the right, like it really should. The stretchy belt tension directly to the right is causing the entire crankshaft to be slightly misaligned from a perfectly aligned position to the block. As it gets pulled to the right, the connecting rods instead of staying perpendicular, are now being slightly twisted and pulled radially to the side by just a tiny bit in the thousandths of an inch. But even if it is pulled off center just a thousandths of an inch, it technically could cause an issue as the pistons having such tight clearance start having more contact to the cylinder wall in one area vs being evenly centered. This would cause piston slap, and eventual cylinder scoring. Thus, your ticking noise.
Now, because everything is twisted just slightly, it may also explain why a few journals have gone bad as well, as clearance is affected by improper positioning of the connecting rod. However, "I think" the primary issue is going to be piston slap, as that is the audible noise we are hearing.

That is the post I was referring to. Either way I will be definitely looking into this as I am also curious as to why it was not continued on the later revisions of the coyote when it was a TSB...very odd of Ford. However, your bean counter explanation is 100% accurate to my experiences so that could absolutely be the reason.

 

[Ace21]

@Condor1970 I am in Bremerton so maybe we can meet up sometime and compare the sounds, cause my '18 definitely has the tick as did my '16. It did have the rattle but that has disappeared since I brought it in for its first oil change and asked for it to be looked at.

I had the oil changed to 5w30, but was told the tick was normal and that they could not reproduce the rattle. All very interesting because when I picked up the car the tick was gone, the rattle was only there for the ride home and the trans was shifting like it did when it was new like the ECU had been reset. The tick has since returned, but the rattle is still gone.

 

[Condor1970]

@Condor1970 I am in Bremerton so maybe we can meet up sometime and compare the sounds, cause my '18 definitely has the tick as did my '16. It did have the rattle but that has disappeared since I brought it in for its first oil change and asked for it to be looked at.

I had the oil changed to 5w30, but was told the tick was normal and that they could not reproduce the rattle. All very interesting because when I picked up the car the tick was gone, the rattle was only there for the ride home and the trans was shifting like it did when it was new like the ECU had been reset. The tick has since returned, but the rattle is still gone.

Concerning the piston slap. I was convinced at one point it was. You know why? Because even the tech at the dealer told me that's what the latest theory is. But hey, I do my best to let everyone know I "think" that's what it is, but I freely admit, it coukd just be some oil flow or cavitation issue. Who knows?
That said, it is not ticking anymore since I switched to 5w30. It does however have a slight 2k rattle. I think that's a separate issue. Maybe the phasers chattering, the timing chain, or even the IMRC. I'm totally clueless on that one.

 

[Dfeeds]

Concerning the piston slap. I was convinced at one point it was. You know why? Because even the tech at the dealer told me that's what the latest theory is. But hey, I do my best to let everyone know I "think" that's what it is, but I freely admit, it coukd just be some oil flow or cavitation issue. Who knows?
That said, it is not ticking anymore since I switched to 5w30. It does however have a slight 2k rattle. I think that's a separate issue. Maybe the phasers chattering, the timing chain, or even the IMRC. I'm totally clueless on that one.

One thing, too, is that the rattle sounds almost exactly like bearing rattle (rod or crank bearings zi believe), which is easy to mistaken for piston slap or vise versa. I posted a video demonstrating it, and the solution was a new set of bearings for the poster of the video. The only issue with that is I just can't see all of these cars having bad bearings out of the gate. It could suggest some oddities when it comes to the clearances of the bearings. But the only thing we have concrete is proof of scored/scuffed cylinder walls. That would suggest piston slap. Who knows? Maybe the scored walls is due to the user being a little less gentle than they led on before the car was up to operating temp, and waiting for the car to warm up before any aggressive driving is all it takes to prevent damage.

 

[GT Pony]

Or it could have been a flaw or inconsistency in the original belt ... and putting a new belt on with the tensioner kit cured the thudding noise.

No, I really don't think it was. That belt was pristine when I took it off. If it was flawed that much, it would have made noise from the beginning, which it didn't. The belt was essentially brand new at only about 3,000 miles when I took it off.
That tick was definitely something internal.

I don't recall ... but did you cut the original stretchy belt off and then run the engine without the belt to see what it sounded like?

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