Tuning Decisions

[EcoSnake]

I agree something does not sound right. I wonder if the position would be the same if their hardware data logged. Maybe.

I am interested in hearing/learning more about this position and how it can be possible.

All I took from that was. Tust us that your car won't knock when it's 120 degrees outside running crap 91oct. Because we thoroughly tested our car in another place with different fuel.

Excuses for having inferior hardware and software?

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[cosmo]

They must have a dynamic system for different parameters. The ECU dynamically calibrates the engine to meet certain AFR and boost levels, while mainting certain temperature loads, etc. If that's the case, I can see that happening and then each separate tune gives certain AFR and boost levels.

If not, I'm not really sure how else it can be done.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Most items on that list are Direct Memory Reads (DRM). That means the ECU is talking boost. Just educating the consumer

Ian

I assume you mean DMR's, but I can assure you, there is no DMR for A/F or PSI of boost. If there were, you wouldn't need to convert it. By having to convert it shows that this is not what the language the ECM speaks. We look at it like translating anything language (because that's what coding is), there is always something lost in translation.

So how is this possible? Is the ecoboost ecu compensating for different factors automatically? Why do you even bother with different octane tunes or offer custom tunes at all if you can do it all in a single tune?

The fact that you do offer different octane tunes and different tunes for different mods has to mean there is value in data logging, no?

What if I use 93 but it is not the same quality (better or worse) as the 93 you used for you tune - surely something is left on the table (if my fuel is better) or that needs to be taken away (if your fuel was better).

Of what if the dp I am using flows differently than whatever dp you used for you dp tune.

you are right, this does fly in the face of everything I've heard/understand (and admitting my understanding of tuning is limited). Is this train of thought specific to ecoboot engines - or is this your general philosophy?

The tune actually does adjust up and down for fuel, but it's designed to do a small change. In the world of a turbo car, the difference between 91 and 93 is something that has to be calibrated for specifically.

Truthfully, this train of thought is true on everything that has a powerful enough ECM (almost everything we service 2009 and newer).

Now, don't get me wrong, a tune has to be done specifically for mods associated to a car, but we know what our packages do, and how to tune for them. And yes, we do usually test other popular mods to ensure we have support for that as well. Will we have tunes for every possible combination out there? likely not, nor do we want to as we pride ourselves on developing well engineered and proven results, and by deviating you easily get to be a jack of all trades rather than a master of some.

I read it on a forum years ago from a customer explaining how we do things, and why to trust us. You wouldn't go into a top rated steakhouse and bring in your own steak to have it cooked. The same goes for choosing modifications for a car and trusting the recipe that goes into it.

I agree something does not sound right. I wonder if the position would be the same if their hardware data logged. Maybe.

I am interested in hearing/learning more about this position and how it can be possible.

Our position would be identical because we had hardware in the past that did offer datalogging, and we purposely moved away from it so we could offer a product that produced better results.

We are used to the pushback from the community on this because so many have been trained to do work for someone else, rather than actually getting what you pay for. But then they see us dominate the track and realize we were right all along.

To build on the above analogy, we view it as going to a restaurant and being told you have to do the prep work for the cook, rather than sit back, relax, and enjoy the evening.

A good deal of our sales are to people that tried other tunes first and got beat by one of our customers.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

I read it differently. He states variables that are atmospheric. Pressure, temp, humidity. Those factors are programmed to account for all varying conditions, regardless of mods and fuel type. The factory does it this way. For example, if intake air temps get too high, pull a degree here or there. This is how the factory does it...nothing really out of the ordinary.

I think the issue you guys are concerned w/ is afr primarily....if I'm not mistaken, these mustangs have widebands from the factory. If this is the case, the logic could potentially adapt ato some extent assuming it is aware that it needs to.

Dammit. Tree'd. Nevermind.

 

[RamJam]

I'm new here, but not new to cars or tuning. Honestly this is all what I had heard from Hypertech before buying one for my Mazdaspeed3.

In the end it was a huge letdown and I had to go elsewhere, I hope I'm wrong in thinking the Livernois is going to be the same experience.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

All I took from that was. Tust us that your car won't knock when it's 120 degrees outside running crap 91oct. Because we thoroughly tested our car in another place with different fuel.

Excuses for having inferior hardware and software?

Oddly enough though we have been proving our methodology works since 2009.

let me give you a rundown of what we have done in the EcoBoost world:

First and only 12-second Explorer Sport
Qucikest tune only Ford Flex
First and only 11-second Taurus SHO
Highest power EcoBoost 3.5
First to tune fusion 2.0, 1.5, and 1.6
First to tune escape 2.0, and 1.6
First full weight 2015 Mustang EB in the 12's
First 2015 EB Mustang in the 11's
Quickest EcoBoost powered vehicle in the world
Quickest tune only Taurus SHO
Quickest tune only F150 EB

we have more, but I think this list should suffice. All of this done with the device we sell today.

Features don't guarantee results. The calibration does.

 

[EcoSnake]

Oddly enough though we have been proving our methodology works since 2009.

let me give you a rundown of what we have done in the EcoBoost world:

First and only 12-second Explorer Sport
Qucikest tune only Ford Flex
First and only 11-second Taurus SHO
Highest power EcoBoost 3.5
First to tune fusion 2.0, 1.5, and 1.6
First to tune escape 2.0, and 1.6
First full weight 2015 Mustang EB in the 12's
First 2015 EB Mustang in the 11's
Quickest EcoBoost powered vehicle in the world
Quickest tune only Taurus SHO
Quickest tune only F150 EB

we have more, but I think this list should suffice. All of this done with the device we sell today.

Features don't guarantee results. The calibration does.

I've been modding and having my cars dynotuned for almost 20 years. Never once heard someone say that extra information and options are only needed by idiots.

I've had companies tell me the same things. Your etune is as good as any custom tune. Then once summer hits it's knocking. I'll stick with what has worked flawlessly in the past and better than I expected.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I'm new here, but not new to cars or tuning. Honestly this is all what I had heard from Hypertech before buying one for my Mazdaspeed3.

In the end it was a huge letdown and I had to go elsewhere, I hope I'm wrong in thinking the Livernois is going to be the same experience.

trust me, search around. you will quickly see that what we claim is exactly what we deliver or better. Skepticism is expected, but do your own research into us and what we do with the ecoboost platforms.

This is a good start

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=livernois+ecoboost

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I've been modding and having my cars dynotuned for almost 20 years. Never once heard someone say that extra information and options are only needed by idiots.

I've had companies tell me the same things. Your etune is as good as any custom tune. Then once summer hits it's knocking. I'll stick with what has worked flawlessly in the past and better than I expected.

That's unfortunate that someone had burned you before. What makes us different is our start came from the OEM world. We know how to validate like the OEMs as we are an OEM supplier, and do testing for OEMs and other OEM suppliers.

 

[RamJam]

Features don't guarantee results. The calibration does.

I would rather have the features than not have them, Just my opinion. SCT and COBB both have added features that customers like to use. Instead you just don't have them, and tell the customer that they don't want them.

I prefer to be treated like an adult by one of the companies that caters to their customers, not to be told what to do.

Not trying to be disrespectful, I'm just not impressed with you guys.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I would rather have the features than not have them, Just my opinion. SCT and COBB both have added features that customers like to use. Instead you just don't have them, and tell the customer that they don't want them.

I prefer to be treated like an adult by one of the companies that caters to their customers, not to be told what to do.

Not trying to be disrespectful, I'm just not impressed with you guys.

We respect that some people want them, but rather than giving them something that spits on incorrect data (again, items like A/F and Boost PSI are NOT in the ECM, they are values someone is calculating other items to get) we do our best to educate our customers as to what is being sold to them.

We know that some people prefer things a certain way, and that is perfectly fine. We aren't trying to be everything to everyone, we have a certain methodology we follow that we feel is better, and feel the results prove themselves time, and time again, but completely respect that not everyone will just take us at our word. Time will prove that we are genuine in what we say though, just as it has on every other EcoBoost vehicle we support.

As for not being impressed, not sure how having the only tune only 12-second, and only 11 second EcoBoost mustang out there isn't impressive.

 

[EcoSnake]

That's unfortunate that someone had burned you before. What makes us different is our start came from the OEM world. We know how to validate like the OEMs as we are an OEM supplier, and do testing for OEMs and other OEM suppliers.

I've gotten knock from oem tunes also. Have you ever been to phoenix in the summer and put the crap gas in your car? The pumps lie lol.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I've gotten knock from oem tunes also. Have you ever been to phoenix in the summer and put the crap gas in your car? The pumps lie lol.

Which is why we set our tunes up to be safe, AND faster than everyone else's tunes. We have plenty of customers in AZ and New Mexico that run 91 (or 90) and our tunes are spot on for them as well. We do extensive testing on everything we do, including temp, and fuel testing. Remember where we are located, the heart of automotive testing and development. We even have facilities that have regional fuels specifically for testing.

 

[Ecobeast]

Herr_Poopschitz - Can you please take your complaints somewhere else? Livernois and Cobb are both reputable tuners. I think we all understand at this point that you don't like Cobb.

+1. This ^

 

[EcoSnake]

Which is why we set our tunes up to be safe, AND faster than everyone else's tunes. We have plenty of customers in AZ and New Mexico that run 91 (or 90) and our tunes are spot on for them as well. We do extensive testing on everything we do, including temp, and fuel testing. Remember where we are located, the heart of automotive testing and development. We even have facilities that have regional fuels specifically for testing.

Im not arguing your results. Just the comments on how less is more. I'm really only interested in e85 anyway. If you get that figured out. I'll buy it.

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