Tuners dissappearing [closed due to politics discussions]

[Gregs24]

Actually the stated phase out year is 2025. But right now there are at least two coal fired power plants in the UK with no planned closure dates. What's really funny, is that the government in Great Britain is REALLY careful about its wording on this subject.

Great Britain imports electricity from Ireland, the Netherlands and France. All of these countries have coal burning power plants.

It's like California - keep trumpeting the fact all of your power plants are going away from fossil fuels.........just don't announce the fact that you can't generate enough power to sustain your country without importing electricity from other countries / states that burn coal.

So you 'discover' the phase out is 2025 from the two remaining plants and that proves your point? Only one will still be active after next year. Did you not look and see how much coal was being used even 15 years ago ? It is a one way ticket that has been going to plan, so I don't understand why that one remaining plant will not close as predicted.

Did you look at how France generates it's power (mostly nuclear and down to 1.6% coal) Netherlands has more from it's 5 plants but there are currently discussions ongoing about how to shut them down. Incremental gains all properly planned, not ignored.

The difference is we have a properly integrated electricity supply system that plans ahead in a responsible way (and yes it costs us more for our electricity on average) but at least it keeps working when it snows!

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[Gregs24]

So aside from the batteries needed to power an EV, there’s going to be excessive need for metals for the wiring of the EV not just by electrical parts and harnesses, but also the electric motor windings and cases....

Start pulling an EV’s necessary components apart and how is it any better than an ICE vehicle as far as emissions expended, earth materials needed and costs?

Funny how people who are experts in the field are already doing this

How Wiring Innovation Is Quietly Driving the EV Revolution (aptiv.com)

All cars present recycling problems (even ICE ones) and the processes of dealing with this are also being developed and introduced. Many cars use a high proportion of recycled materials in the their construction these days and much of a modern car can be recycled. It's happening in the US to a slightly higher level than Europe, so I'm surprised you didn't mention it ?

Car Recycling Statistics and Facts (thebalancesmb.com)

 

[Gregs24]

Scientists told us there would be food shortages and wide spread famine across the world - decades ago. The planet couldn't handle this many people, then the number got moved up and so on and so on.

Maybe you should look outside your tiny world to see there are plenty of famines, past and present.

 

[ctandc72]

So you 'discover' the phase out is 2025 from the two remaining plants and that proves your point? Only one will still be active after next year. Did you not look and see how much coal was being used even 15 years ago ? It is a one way ticket that has been going to plan, so I don't understand why that one remaining plant will not close as predicted.

I didn't "Discover" anything. YOU STATED it was 2024. YOU brought it up to tell us how the UK has "done away with coal". Do you not READ your own posts? I don't live in the UK, so I'm not up to date on their power plans. So guess what, I did SOME RESEARCH.

Words matter. You keep moving the goal posts. You state something as fact, and when it turns out it's not, you act like it's not a big deal.

Did you look at how France generates it's power (mostly nuclear and down to 1.6% coal) Netherlands has more from it's 5 plants but there are currently discussions ongoing about how to shut them down. Incremental gains all properly planned, not ignored.

Again, you're changing the entire narrative. YOUR POST said the UK has moved away from coal. When that's not true. Imagine if scientists did what you did.....

Oh wait they did.

Here's the original article (peer-reviewed by other scientists at the time):

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0651-8

This article was pushed my major news outlets, people speaking out about how bad this was. It was a big deal when this happened. TEN authors on this study. Until it was reviewed by a mathematician and found to contain major MATH errors. In other words the "Science" was WRONG. The article was retracted:

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/environment/sd-me-climate-study-error-20181113-story.html

But how many people cared to look beyond the original articles?

The difference is we have a properly integrated electricity supply system that plans ahead in a responsible way (and yes it costs us more for our electricity on average) but at least it keeps working when it snows!

There's the jab. Pointing at Texas huh?
That's a good point though - so you're still wanting more EVs added to these same power grids?

The UK system is perfect right?

https://www.govtech.com/blogs/lohrm...lessons-from-the-massive-uk-power-outage.html

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...hort-supply-of-electricity-over-next-few-days

That was a minute of searching.

But let's compare Texas and the UK.

UK 66 Million (2019)
Texas 20 Million (2019)

UK 93.6K sq miles of land area
Texas 269K sq miles of land area

Yeah - that's a apples to apples comparison on a power grid.

 

[ctandc72]

Funny how people who are experts in the field are already doing this

How Wiring Innovation Is Quietly Driving the EV Revolution (aptiv.com)

All cars present recycling problems (even ICE ones) and the processes of dealing with this are also being developed and introduced. Many cars use a high proportion of recycled materials in the their construction these days and much of a modern car can be recycled. It's happening in the US to a slightly higher level than Europe, so I'm surprised you didn't mention it ?

Car Recycling Statistics and Facts (thebalancesmb.com)

All that and you IGNORE the EV vehicle battery issue. Seriously - research it a bit. Even a group of scientists who are HUGE Proponents of how important EVs are to the plant admit that governments need to set policies and provide financial incentives to deal with recycling EV batteries.

That's the ticket - government solves everything.

Maybe you should look outside your tiny world to see there are plenty of famines, past and present.

I'm talking world wide. I love how you jab (again personal) with my "Tiny world".

If we are speaking factually - technically your world is much smaller than mine.

Have you visited Africa? I have. Go tell them how bad coal is. What do they care about the environment when over a thousand of them die EVERY DAY because of consistent, easy access to a fresh water source. That's just one place.

But since we're talking about food shortages........what about "Organic" farming. That's been a big push. But weirdly enough, on the whole, it reduces crop / food yield versus traditional farming and it actually costs more.

Developing nations are largely ignored when the entire Green Energy discussion comes up. Why? It doesn't fit the narrative. Cheap energy has brought more people out of poverty and saved more lives than most people will ever realize. So living in the UK, the US, most of Europe, Japan - all of us having benefited from this cheap energy, we live in our own bubble. Our own "Tiny world". Where you have electricity not run a by gasoline or diesel generator -if at all.

I won't even get into ALL the old ICE powered vehicles shipped off to developing countries from countries pushing "Green power" - "save the planet". Cars that won't pass emissions and can't be registered in one country, being sold at a profit to countries who need cheap transportation...........

 

[Gregs24]

I didn't "Discover" anything. YOU STATED it was 2024. YOU brought it up to tell us how the UK has "done away with coal". Do you not READ your own posts? I don't live in the UK, so I'm not up to date on their power plans. So guess what, I did SOME RESEARCH.

consultation-coal-renewable.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Target 2025 but expected by 2024 - happy now ? 1 power station left burning coal by next year

 

[Gregs24]

All that and you IGNORE the EV vehicle battery issue. Seriously - research it a bit. Even a group of scientists who are HUGE Proponents of how important EVs are to the plant admit that governments need to set policies and provide financial incentives to deal with recycling EV batteries.

That's the ticket - government solves everything.



I'm talking world wide. I love how you jab (again personal) with my "Tiny world".

If we are speaking factually - technically your world is much smaller than mine.

Have you visited Africa? I have. Go tell them how bad coal is. What do they care about the environment when over a thousand of them die EVERY DAY because of consistent, easy access to a fresh water source. That's just one place.

But since we're talking about food shortages........what about "Organic" farming. That's been a big push. But weirdly enough, on the whole, it reduces crop / food yield versus traditional farming and it actually costs more.

Developing nations are largely ignored when the entire Green Energy discussion comes up. Why? It doesn't fit the narrative. Cheap energy has brought more people out of poverty and saved more lives than most people will ever realize. So living in the UK, the US, most of Europe, Japan - all of us having benefited from this cheap energy, we live in our own bubble. Our own "Tiny world". Where you have electricity not run a by gasoline or diesel generator -if at all.

I won't even get into ALL the old ICE powered vehicles shipped off to developing countries from countries pushing "Green power" - "save the planet". Cars that won't pass emissions and can't be registered in one country, being sold at a profit to countries who need cheap transportation...........

I'm surprised the world has any problems at all with you around with all the answers - keep it up and make sure you use all of your knowledge wisely.

Now lets stop wasting pixels with the thread drift of extraordinary proportions

 

[ctandc72]

Sorry about the Off topic posts. I've put him on ignore so I'm good now.

Sorry again.

 

[Onlyone]

Maybe you would like to explain what you will be doing to help?

In the words of your great president ' Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country '

So no, I will not STFU, and I am not a hypocrite!

Help for what? I try my best to let my vehicles idle as much as possible before leaving and use my AC in my house, even though I live at the top of the Rockies.

He's dead and couldn't care less about your climate change, global warming or whatever you guys call it now.

Whether you STFU or not, your are very much a hypocrite. You can try justifying it all you want. Everyone here sees through your bullshit.

 

[Gregs24]

Help for what? I try my best to let my vehicles idle as much as possible before leaving and use my AC in my house, even though I live at the top of the Rockies.

He's dead and couldn't care less about your climate change, global warming or whatever you guys call it now.

Whether you STFU or not, your are very much a hypocrite. You can try justifying it all you want. Everyone here sees through your bullshit.

Oh now, don't start going on a charm offensive just to soften me up

 

[gadgtfreek]

Having a green convo on a stang forum is HILARIOUS.

 

[K4fxd]

Having a green convo on a stang forum is HILARIOUS.

If you keep the cats on, the current mustangs are very green compared to previous models. More power too.

That is the problem with the greenies, nothing is good enough. Even though our air is the cleanest since (guess) the 1700's

 

[Gregs24]

That is the problem with the greenies, nothing is good enough. Even though our air is the cleanest since (guess) the 1700's

A statement that covers a multitude of areas.

Some forms of air pollution are better than they were in some places a while ago! Largely as a result of the banning of burning of coal and wood in cities in the UK where the example is shown below. But it isn't the case everywhere (Delhi is included on the graph) and it should also be remembered that London was one of the very first industrialised cities in the world so in the 1700's pollutants globally were very low compared to this one city. We also know a lot more about types of pollutants and the damage they cause to humans which wasn't known back then.

So SOME places are better than 1700 for some types of pollution but MANY are as bad or worse depending on the type of pollutant

I'm not a greenie, but I do care about my environment, which is better now than when I was a child because of action taken on cars, heating, burning of coal etc. I don't want to return to the smogs of the 1960's and 70's and also don't want my children and grandchildren living shorter lives as a result of environmental pollution that can be avoided. So is the current situation 'good enough' - I don't think it is on balance.


Historical Trends in PM2.5-Related Premature Mortality during 1990–2010 across the Northern Hemisphere (nih.gov)

Sources and Effects of PM2.5 (defra.gov.uk)

Ella Adoo-Kissi-Debrah: Air pollution a factor in girl's death, inquest finds - BBC News

 

[ice445]

With scrubbers and other emission controls coal is as clean as natural gas.

Killing an inexpensive form of energy is foolish and will only lead to increased energy costs.

Absolutely not. Natural gas is MILES better because it doesn't leave fly ash, which contains heavy metals and radioactive isotopes. You can't burn the fly ash, so you have to store it somewhere and poison the environment.

 

[Vlad Soare]

So is the current situation 'good enough' - I don't think it is on balance.

I think in the West it is more than good enough already. And those places in the world where it isn't good enough won't be changed in the least by our relentless fight against cars and motorists. Fifty million EVs in the UK won't improve the air in Delhi.

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