Throttle House puts the 2020 GT500, Camaro ZL1 and Challenger Hellcat Redeye on the track

[thill444]

Nobody wants them because Ford half assed the PP2 and didn't add all of the coolers etc. Who wants a car that has Cup 2s and better handling that will go into limp mode very quickly when pushed?

I think the people that want them are those that want sharp handling and a more sporty suspension but don't plan on tracking much if ever. On paper the PP2 is a strange choice if you track the car, I 100% agree with you. For someone like you it would make no sense. I was a member of several New England corvette clubs and there were so many people who would buy a GS or Z06 and never ever see the track. When I would talk to some of these owners 90%+ of the time they preferred the looks (wide body, aero, bigger tires) over the performance. It's their money and I never made a big deal about it but the reality is that many people will buy a car like a GT350R, GT500 CFTP, ZL1LE, GS, etc and never every take it to the track.

So to me the PP2 gives you the sharper handling, wider stance/tires, etc that some people want but will never use on a track.

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[JohnnyUtah]

(A guy in a machine learning discussion kept using heuristics, I did the same thing, I found it equally funny ... especially given the guy's understanding and the fact I'm actually engaged in ML in the medical space for predicting traumatic injury outcomes ... Hey! Looky what I know too! )

That's funny... I experienced the same thing not to long ago with heuristic.

Reminds me of when "extensible" was the most over used term of the day that everyone used incorrectly.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Nice! I'm an ML geek too. I have a deep learning based computer vision company, but worked in the robot kinematics , dynamics, and controls (algorithms) space for many, many years as well.

I did some CV work in The Valley with a fairly notable company involved the AR space (mostly worked on the SDK for the CV core libraries for 3rd party developer use), was pretty cool ...

That's funny... I experienced the same thing not to long ago with heuristic.

Reminds me of when "extensible" was the most over used term of the day that everyone used incorrectly.

Hahaha, years ago (previous company) we used to make a bet over a word/term/phrase, that had to be worked into the conversation at client meeting, that made for some real stretching of the word usage and some awkward conversation steering

 

[Ed M]

Hahaha, years ago (previous company) we used to make a bet over a word/term/phrase, that had to be worked into the conversation at client meeting, that made for some real stretching of the word usage and some awkward conversation steering

We called it ‘Buzzword Bingo’ Sometimes had to work hard not to yell out “BINGO!” in the middle of a meeting.

 

[Hack]

So really then it's a matter of semantics. The physics of the mechanical content of the suspension versus the customer's perception of the performance of the suspension. I think most customers are going to make decisions based on perceived performance, not mechanical content. Leaving Alpha out of it for a few minutes. I drove the Bullitt. I was totally underwhelmed by its suspension performance. When it was time to turn it over to the next assigned driver I had zero angst about that. I actually found him and gave him the keys earlier than I needed to. Full disclosure, the transmission and clutch had more to do with that than the suspension. When I drove the GT350 I was looking for ways to spend more time with it. The suspension had as much to do with as anything, though the engine and transmission contributed mightily. But it was the suspension that I saw in stark contrast to the Bullitt, which is in theory the "same" chassis as the GT350? I would have no trouble believing it if someone told me they weren't remotely related.

So now I'll bring Alpha back into the discussion. ATS, CTS, and Camaro are all Alpha chassis and are all tuned differently, but there are some elements that make it clear that whomever tuned them had similar end goals in mind. ATS is slightly more aggressive than CTS (V notwithstanding) and Camaro is considerably more aggressive than both (again V not withstanding). You can feel that they are related. Even though I know Bullitt and GT350 are similarly related, if I didn't know better I'd swear they weren't. The Alpha chassis vehicles give me more of what I want in cars that I drive. Other than GT350 (haven't driven PP2 or GT500 yet) S550 doesn't do that, so when I'm ready to write a check, my preference tells me which one is "better".

I haven't driven as many variants of Mustangs as you have.

I did own and daily drive a 2015 Mustang base GT for a year and I had it to the track. I thought it was very comfortable and compliant, but the body motions were not damped as well as I would prefer. I had it on track and I liked it a lot on track. I didn't notice the body motions as much there for some reason.

To me the GT350 felt very similar but with stickier tires and firmer suspension. Body motions in the GT350 are very well damped.

It sounds to me like you prefer a firm and well-damped ride (as do I). The Camaro is tuned to your taste. Ford tuned some Mustangs but not all to your taste. So the Mustang just happens to have more variety available and some varieties are tuned more towards the side of comfort.

 

[VooDoo387R]

In the end it was a a horrible job at a comparison to say the least by Throttle House. All cars should have shown up with fresh stock tires, camber and all aero. None of this cooked tires crap or switching out 1LE for none 1LE during a drag race. Overall, they did a piss poor job of being objective to the whole car community not just Ford, Chevy or Dodge fans.

Know, to the point that a car that cost less (ZL1 1LE), is equal to a car that cost more is mute. I bought a 2020 GT500 knowing that I could buy a ZL1 1LE for under MSRP, but I bought what I wanted. Just like the guy that chooses the ZL1 1LE. After all, all I give a crap about is that I get into my GT500 or GT350R and I instantly feel better about being me and my day. That's what I'm after, not some petite second time difference on a race track. Especially when the cars are driven daily on the street and not a track. Not to mention, that I can get this car to run 9's for less than $5K if I really cared to.

The Red Eye and ZL1 were responsible for Ford creating the 2020 GT500, and to that, I say thanks, cause damn do I love my GT500.

 

[SCCA Racer #75]

In the end it was a a horrible job at a comparison to say the least by Throttle House. All cars should have shown up with fresh stock tires, camber and all aero. None of this cooked tires crap or switching out 1LE for none 1LE during a drag race. Overall, they did a piss poor job of being objective to the whole car community not just Ford, Chevy or Dodge fans.

Know, to the point that a car that cost less (ZL1 1LE), is equal to a car that cost more is mute. I bought a 2020 GT500 knowing that I could buy a ZL1 1LE for under MSRP, but I bought what I wanted. Just like the guy that chooses the ZL1 1LE. After all, all I give a crap about is that I get into my GT500 or GT350R and I instantly feel better about being me and my day. That's what I'm after, not some petite second time difference on a race track. Especially when the cars are driven daily on the street and not a track. Not to mention, that I can get this car to run 9's for less than $5K if I really cared to.

The Red Eye and ZL1 were responsible for Ford creating the 2020 GT500, and to that, I say thanks, cause damn do I love my GT500.

This is a good note... and to give even more credit to Ford (and why I'm not a Hater... just not a Fanboy)... Ford also deserves credit for there even being a Hellcat! People so easily forget... 2013 and the 662HP GT500! 707 got the magazine attention... but the 200+ MPH 662HP Shelby GT500 started the HP wars... which frankly you could go back to the 'Terminator' in 2003 really... and then the 2007 GT500 and so on!

Just that all the hate towards the other makes and discredit on here is ridiculous... clearly... the past few tests (whether ideal or not) have shown... GT500 will need to be on it's A game to compete with a ZLE on the track.

Dave

 

[ZRacerLE]

This is a good note... and to give even more credit to Ford (and why I'm not a Hater... just not a Fanboy)... Ford also deserves credit for there even being a Hellcat! People so easily forget... 2013 and the 662HP GT500! 707 got the magazine attention... but the 200+ MPH 662HP Shelby GT500 started the HP wars... which frankly you could go back to the 'Terminator' in 2003 really... and then the 2007 GT500 and so on!

Just that all the hate towards the other makes and discredit on here is ridiculous... clearly... the past few tests (whether ideal or not) have shown... GT500 will need to be on it's A game to compete with a ZLE on the track.

Dave

I'm with you. Hate to see all the hate.

 

[thill444]

I love how the Camaro guys come to a Ford forum complaining about Ford haters when some of you guys are literally making racist comments to members on this forum.

What’s wrong with the Camaro forum? Can’t you guys just hang out there and circle jerk?

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Ya know where they don't hate the ZLe??? That's right. C6g. You guys should check that out.

 

[ZRacerLE]

They are just cars fellas. I sure do admire the GT500. Looking forward to seeing one on I45. Hopefully they won't flip me off when I give them the thumbs up in my ZLE.

 

[newmoon]

I love how the Camaro guys come to a Ford forum complaining about Ford haters when some of you guys are literally making racist comments to members on this forum.

What’s wrong with the Camaro forum? Can’t you guys just hang out there and circle jerk?

I don't see a problem with cross shopping brand forums, the bickering back and forth is entertaining imo. Sitting here watching all like minded members tell each other how great their car is, and how horrible the competition is gets kind of boring.

 

[SCCA Racer #75]

Ya know where they don't hate the ZLe??? That's right. C6g. You guys should check that out.

From the guy with SRT in his screen name lol!!!

 

[thill444]

They are just cars fellas. I sure do admire the GT500. Looking forward to seeing one on I45. Hopefully they won't flip me off when I give them the thumbs up in my ZLE.

You are not the problem. You seem like a really cool guy and a lover of cars. There are just a couple of Camaro fanboys who seem really insecure about their purchase.

I personally don’t get it. I usually make an educated decision, buy the car I like, and don’t really feel the need to troll other forums. The Facebook groups are the same. I’m sure Ford fanboys do it too, but it baffles me that grown men stoop to these levels.

It’s a new age.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

From the guy with SRT in his screen name lol!!!

What does a screen name have to do with anything? Your posts started out strong but have dwindled down to dumb shit like this. If you want camaro love go to a camaro sight.

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