The writing on the wall

[FiveLiterDreamer]

I'm a huge Mustang and V8 fan. However it seems that there are some people here that believe that this could very well be the final dance for a big V8 in an affordable American sports car. From the perspective of someone who works in the auto industry I believe that there may be some truth in this statement. Ford is bringing in the Ecoboost for the Mustang this year they also are deleting the 6.2L (certainly meaning a new engine for next gen Raptor as well) from the new F150 lineup. In addition to this move Ford is also positioning the 3.5L ecoboost to be the top tier engine for the F150. I don't know if this means that it will simply be the most expensive engine option or if the 3.5 EB may actually make more power than the 5.0. I believe that the new F150 and F150 in general are always a indication of where the Ford product line is headed. I believe that aluminum will be much more extensively used in future Ford product I am now also thinking that the updates to this Mustang and most certainly the next GEN Mustang will involve extenisve aluminum use as well as the possible deletion of the 5.0 V8 in standard Mustangs replaced by one of the many EB motors (likely coupled to a 9 or 10 speed tranny as the rest of the auto industry has moved toward 8+ speeds) Ford is introducing to the lineup.

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[opensesame]

I'm a huge Mustang and V8 fan. However it seems that there are some people here that believe that this could very well be the final dance for a big V8 in an affordable American sports car. From the perspective of someone who works in the auto industry I believe that there may be some truth in this statement. Ford is bringing in the Ecoboost for the Mustang this year they also are deleting the 6.2L (certainly meaning a new engine for next gen Raptor as well) from the new F150 lineup. In addition to this move Ford is also positioning the 3.5L ecoboost to be the top tier engine for the F150. I don't know if this means that it will simply be the most expensive engine option or if the 3.5 EB may actually make more power than the 5.0. I believe that the new F150 and F150 in general are always a indication of where the Ford product line is headed. I believe that aluminum will be much more extensively used in future Ford product I am now also thinking that the updates to this Mustang and most certainly the next GEN Mustang will involve extenisve aluminum use as well as the possible deletion of the 5.0 V8 in standard Mustangs replaced by one of the many EB motors (likely coupled to a 9 or 10 speed tranny as the rest of the auto industry has moved toward 8+ speeds) Ford is introducing to the lineup.

Blame Obama Administration for putting CAFE standards. On July 29, 2011, President Obama announced an agreement with thirteen large automakers to increase fuel economy to 54.5 miles per gallon for cars and light-duty trucks by model year 2025.

So you can understand why automakers will start eliminating their V8's for more fuel efficient V4/v6 with turbo.

 

[Sal JC]

As long as I get my '15 I couldn't care less (If they ever decide to build it, that is)

Also this already happened in the in the 70's early 80's. The entire Mustang II, '81 4.2L Mustang that was about as powerful as my lawnmower, '83 GT 2.3L T, so we'll have to see how things go this time.

 

[Twin Turbo]

I would hope a V8 will always be available in the Mustang.......at least for the entire duration of S550 and whatever model number replaces it.

I suspect we'll see DI on the Coyote in a couple of years, but where does Ford go after that? An all-new V8 just for Mustang would be tough to justify financially, so perhaps that's where the rumoured RWD Lincoln comes in. A 4.5 Ecoboost V8 at 475bhp would do nicely.

The Germans are already heading in the direction of smaller, turbocharged V8s, and I suspect Mustang will eventually follow.

 

[FiveLiterDreamer]

I would hope a V8 will always be available in the Mustang.......at least for the entire duration of S550 and whatever model number replaces it.

I suspect we'll see DI on the Coyote in a couple of years, but where does Ford go after that? An all-new V8 just for Mustang would be tough to justify financially, so perhaps that's where the rumoured RWD Lincoln comes in. A 4.5 Ecoboost V8 at 475bhp would do nicely.

The Germans are already heading in the direction of smaller, turbocharged V8s, and I suspect Mustang will eventually follow.

I really like the idea of a small displacement high reving turbo V8. I hope this is where Ford would try to go at first before totally abandoning the V8 ship all together.

 

[GMAN6]

I think it will be available as long as there is a sufficient market, but look at the f150, it seems people prefer the EB to the NA v8. If it ever gets to the point where only a few people opt for the V8, then they will probably drop it.

I think they are going to eventually go toward hybrid/electric. When people see how much faster the hybrid/electric cars are there will be much less demand for slow gas guzzling V8's.

But yes, to the OP, I think the writing is on the wall but the question is "How long"?

 

[FiveLiterDreamer]

I think it will be available as long as there is a sufficient market, but look at the f150, it seems people prefer the EB to the NA v8. If it ever gets to the point where only a few people opt for the V8, then they will probably drop it.

I think they are going to eventually go toward hybrid/electric. When people see how much faster the hybrid/electric cars are there will be much less demand for slow gas guzzling V8's.

But yes, to the OP, I think the writing is on the wall but the question is "How long"?

I agree with you it is a matter of when not if at this point. The Ecoboost sells like wildfire in the new F150 and the new 2.7L EB should increase the sales and reputation of the EB in trucks. Since the F150 is the bread and butter of Fords business if the 5.0 or any iteration of a V8 leaves the line up then I do not see Ford maintaining a V8 simply for Mustang duty. The cost does not add up for what is in reality a small volume niche market car compared to the rest of the Ford lineup.

 

[B Gordon]

Blame Obama Administration for putting CAFE standards. On July 29, 2011, President Obama announced an agreement with thirteen large automakers to increase fuel economy to 54.5 miles per gallon for cars and light-duty trucks by model year 2025.

So you can understand why automakers will start eliminating their V8's for more fuel efficient V4/v6 with turbo.

This!!!

As the CAFE number has to increase, something has to change and cubic inches is the simplest piece of the puzzle to change out.

At least there will still be performance vehicles. As long as multiple full throttle acceleration runs are left out of the fuel economy equation, us performance buffs will have something to enjoy. It might be turbocharged 4 cylinders but that is better than the alternative of nothing.

 

[Barrel]

Not defending the Obama legislation, but both political parties have participated in steadily increasing CAFE standards to combat rising fuel prices.

It's an area in which people's wallets should speak as to what standard of fuel economy they want their vehicles to have, not government intervention. If I want a car that gets 6mpg but sounds awesome and goes 0-60 in 2 seconds, that's my business. If I'm willing to pay for the fuel and the insurance, and the car itself, that's my business.

Irritates me to no end what politicians will make the boogey man these days. Meanwhile my "ecoboost" F150 gets about 3MPG less than my last Mustang (which I couldn't care less about) but because of the way they can game the EPA numbers it's A-OK to the government. Ugh...

 

[OppoLock]

The idea of Ford superseding the Coyote with some kind of FI mill would only seal the deal for the '15.

 

[Spartan]

It has some to do with CAFE but I mean would we have CAFE if we didn't have a stupid government that can't get anything done...we could be gas independent from the middle east but for some reason instead of doing that, we continue to let gas prices rise instead of drilling here. Would people then car if their gas was back to a $1.20 like in 1999 and you could drive whatever you wanted and not break your wallet?

 

[Spartan]

It's an area in which people's wallets should speak as to what standard of fuel economy they want their vehicles to have, not government intervention. If I want a car that gets 6mpg but sounds awesome and goes 0-60 in 2 seconds, that's my business. If I'm willing to pay for the fuel and the insurance, and the car itself, that's my business.

Exactly. Success of a product is always based on sales. I mean look at the computer world and how Apple has changed it. Other competitors had to change or go out of business.

Capitalism works IF it is allowed to work. The problem is government doesn't allow that to happen.

I think it's inevitable as technology changes that the v8 just might die out but if they can make it better every few years then it has a place and will stay around.

 

[fionic]

I think it would be a crime to get rid of the V8 on the mustang. Couldn't they use some kind of cyl shutdown to adhere to CAFE?

 

[MikeAZ]

...it seems that there are some people here that believe that this could very well be the final dance for a big V8 in an affordable American sports car.

Between safety, EPA (lead, sulfur, CO2), and CAFE regulations, American performance cars have been a target for politicians and environmentalists.

Safety mandates have increased vehicle weight over the years, with bumper and airbag laws causing the biggest increase. Frontal offset, side impact, and rollover crash testing has also led to weight gains in body structure.

EPA regulations have caused more weight gain - catalitic converters and exhaust gas recirculation systems to reduce lead and then later sulfer emissions. Changes in gasoline content (addition of ethanol) with the goal of reduced CO2 emissions have led to reduced energy content.

CAFE standards have become so strict that by 2025 it may be unlikely for even a moderate four cylinder engine to meet the 54.5 MPG rule. By any measure, it appears the 2025 rules were set to eliminate the internal combustion engine over time - at least those powered with gasoline.

Note that not all the power increases over the past few years have been done just for the enthusiast market. The weight gains described above are one of the main drivers. The other objective is matching or bettering competitors.

The racing industry can be used as a gauge for future trends. Sports Cars and Formula One are curently using hybrid systems. One Sports Car series is electric only. Indycar uses 100% ethanol. Pro drag racers use nitrous oxide. NASCAR is still using gasoline but other than the engine have nothing in common with production cars.

Technology advances to counter cultural and environmental concerns cause weight increases, price increases, and complexity. New materials must be developed to counter weight and eliminate reactions to caustic fuel additives. Higher complexity such as addition of superchargers and turbochargers require higher compression and operating temperatures and again more weight to dissipate the heat.

Electric cars bring their own issues. Electric for the most part is still generated by fossil fuels. The battery manufacturing process uses fossil fuels (estimated to be as much or more than the car will save over the batteries lifetime). Emergency medical services have to be trained for EVERY specific hybrid or electric car where they can cut through the structure to prevent electrocution. Electric cars don't contribute to road repairs through gasline taxes which will cause a cultural shift to mileage taxes and more government intervention.

The more you look at this issue, the more you realize that politics has the biggest effect on what makes an acceptable car. As an enthusiast, you can blame the UN for pushing uniform vehicle safety laws in the 50s and 60s, Richard Nixon for creating the EPA, and the Supreme Court for permitting the EPA to treat plant food (CO2) as a poison.

 

[EiBStudent]

The racing industry can be used as a gauge for future trends. Sports Cars and Formula One are curently using hybrid systems. One Sports Car series is electric only. Indycar uses 100% ethanol. Pro drag racers use nitrous oxide. NASCAR is still using gasoline but other than the engine have nothing in common with production cars.

NASCAR is actually using Ethanol...claiming it's green...when it's actually inflating food prices around the world.

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