The Ford Powers That Be!

[1320']

You could be 100% correct. I'm guesstimating. I was being conservative, as I think Ford may want the GT to complete with a ZR-1 variant, which in recent years, was at $110k fully loaded.

Realistically with the chassis tub and panels being made out of carbon fiber..it wont be that "cheap".

Figure an easy 175,000 on the low side.

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[Clearman]

I think you're living in dreams if you think the Ford GT will be at 90K MSRP. More like $190K or $290K. The construction of all carbon fiber tub and exterior panels along with aluminum frame will cost $$$. That car is very similar (without the electric front motors) to the McLaren. They will likely be sold out when the order books open with at least $100K in ADM. Unfortunately, the Corvette mid-engine car will be built with more conventional materials, have the LT4 motor, and be priced around $100K.

Could be. Sucks to think we mere mortals won't get to own one.

 

[Clearman]

I think manufacturers are going to start adding internal 'gas guzzler' tax. If you want a V8, fine, but you are going to have to pay 3-5K extra to cover the price discounts they will have to put on expensive hybrids just to move enough units to cover your V8 for CAFE.

Not necessarily. When Ford went from an iron block aluminum head on the GT500 to an all aluminum engine in 2010? it dropped the overall weight low enough to also drop the 'gas guzzler' tax on the GT500. Just because its a V8, doesn't mean it's incapable of being efficient. Internal combustion engines are becoming more and more efficient every year, whether that's in direct injection, or cutting cylinders from firing like Dodge has done with their Hemi, the potential is there.

Quite simply, if the demand is there, Ford will build the Mustang with a V8. Honestly, I think its possible to make a V8 Mustang with 500+ HP also get close to, if not a little over 30MPG. It may have to go on a diet, but I think it's possible.

 

[EngieKev]

Nothing wrong with practical or economic whatsoever. However, to the point, if that's your aim, I'm betting you're barely going to spring for electric windows and locks on your 4-door econ Fiesta/Focus, let alone a few grand more for an "ST".

Those prices ARE for a Fiesta ST and Focus ST. There are no options for power doors, windows, etc. This isn't the 1980's anymore.

 

[PortalMaker]

I'm looking forward to an AWD Focus RS being available in the US. That should be interesting.

People worrying about the practicality of their car aren't going to buy a car that's manual-transmission only (the reason I don't know anybody who considered buying one of the ST's).

Practicality varies per person and their situation though. I met a guy who traded in his '13 Mustang GT (auto) for a '14 Focus ST mainly because he needed more storage space. The Mustang's trunk wasn't cutting it for him.

 

[Swoope]

I'm not opposed to them as far as their existence. My point is that once you have an ST out the door, you could have a Mustang. To each their own, but inasmuch as the Mustang is a niche market, so are the suped up hatches. I'm just of the opinion that if you're going to do something worth doing, don't do it half-assed. If you like racing, don't wuss out and get a "wannabe" hatch, hang your balls out there and get a REAL car like the Stang!

That's just my opinionated opinion, but, there you have it. :cheers:

have run daytona road course with lots of cars.. as a advanced driver.. in a low power rx8..

do not short sell the ST.. really..

the fact that ford sells a shit load of focus and fiestas makes the mustang possible. has nothing to do with the higher performance version of said product...

the four door hatch is a very useful platform, vs the mustang which really is a two seater with a place to toss stuff in the rear...

beers

 

[dgc333]

Not going to disagree with your last point.

Why compare ST to the GT Mustang though? The last time I checked, Focus ST was slower than the V6 Mustang and a couple grand more expensive. Made the decision easy for me.

The other thing about the ST is the seats are made for little people. At 6'4" 235 I'm not comfortable in the car. I could get by but the Mustang is much easier for me to fit into.

Ehh the 4 door thing doesn't matter to me. I don't have kids or friends.

I believe every Ford fan on an emotional level wants a V8 powered Mustang but the cost of entry and/or the cost to drive is more than they can/will afford. The ST is a very good performance car that is much less expensive to purchase and to own, that is the only reason for mentioning the ST in the same sentance as a GT.

The base sticker price of an ST is about $1000 more than the base price of a v6 Mustang but the Focus already has the big brakes, big performance tires, performance suspension and The ST when it came out had more tech features in the base than a base v6 Mustang.

In 12 when I was shopping for a new car my choices were a v6 Mustang and a Focus ST. The Mustang to be comparably equipped to a base ST was about $1800 more.

At the time I was shopping everything I read the performance difference between the two cars was more car to car variation and driver skill than a clear superiority of one. Even though the highway mileage was close the ST was better in mixed driving. I purchased a Focus ST.

If you are into molding your cars the STs potential far exceeds a naturally aspirated v6. My ST with an intake, axle back exhaust and tune was quicker than the Ecoboost Mustang I drove, not by much but it was there. But I went ahead and purchase an Ecoboost because of how well it responds to a tune.

 

[Rob00GT]

I want a new Bronco that looks like the new F150, with a shorter wheelbase and removable hard top. One can hope.

Jeep sells a lot of vehicles, I think a Ford Bronco as you described would compete nicely.

 

[Hack]

I believe every Ford fan on an emotional level wants a V8 powered Mustang but the cost of entry and/or the cost to drive is more than they can/will afford. The ST is a very good performance car that is much less expensive to purchase and to own, that is the only reason for mentioning the ST in the same sentance as a GT.

The base sticker price of an ST is about $1000 more than the base price of a v6 Mustang but the Focus already has the big brakes, big performance tires, performance suspension and The ST when it came out had more tech features in the base than a base v6 Mustang.

In 12 when I was shopping for a new car my choices were a v6 Mustang and a Focus ST. The Mustang to be comparably equipped to a base ST was about $1800 more.

At the time I was shopping everything I read the performance difference between the two cars was more car to car variation and driver skill than a clear superiority of one. Even though the highway mileage was close the ST was better in mixed driving. I purchased a Focus ST.

If you are into molding your cars the STs potential far exceeds a naturally aspirated v6. My ST with an intake, axle back exhaust and tune was quicker than the Ecoboost Mustang I drove, not by much but it was there. But I went ahead and purchase an Ecoboost because of how well it responds to a tune.

I see you are an ST advocate. Fine by me. However, I was also looking at ST versus a V6 Mustang in 2012. At that time I looked the base V6 Mustang was quite a bit cheaper than the Focus ST. And the base V6 Mustang was faster than the ST. In 2012 when I researched it you could have added the performance pack to the V6 Mustang and still been cheaper than the Focus ST.

When I was looking I had an open mind. Living in MN, 4 to 6 months out of the year it's nice having front wheel drive for traction on snow and ice.

I agree with your point on modding. If you are willing to void your warranty on your new car and mod it, yes that is easier with the Focus ST and you can then be faster than a V6 Mustang. That was out of the question for me. I don't have that much money to gamble on a new car and then void the warranty right away. I'd rather spend that money on a car with more power + a factory warranty. That's why I went to the GT. I also probably won't keep the car long enough to wait for the warranty to expire and then modify it.

I'm not into premium features like leather, touchscreen heated seats, dual zone climate, blah blah, so my comparisons are typically to a base Mustang. I don't want that extra stuff.

It's great that Ford makes so many different cars to please different people. The Focus ST just isn't for me, for a lot of reasons. Now maybe if they made a ~450 HP all wheel drive version with decent seats available with fewer standard features - then I would be all over it.

 

[Wildcat]

You could be 100% correct. I'm guesstimating. I was being conservative, as I think Ford may want the GT to complete with a ZR-1 variant, which in recent years, was at $110k fully loaded.

A conservative guess would be 140K, not 90-110K. 90K is fantasy land. The previous GT was 139K (later bumped up 10K), and this is a much more sophisticated car. The ZR-1 isn't even in their thought process with this car; this car is about brand image and demonstrating engineering prowess by going head to head with exotics while also having a testbed for future tech. It's a true halo vehicle that gives the brand a cachet it doesn't currently have.

The Vette and its variants are considered halo cars, but if you think about, it's still the successful plumber's car or a middle class guy's retirement gift to himself. The GT plays in a completely different realm.

The publicity surrounding this car is what will get people in the doors to buy Ford's mainstream performance vehicles (and maybe some non-performance ones as well.

On the topic itself, I think these are good possibilities for future cars (outside of the Focus RS, which we already know is coming):

-a couple additional Mustang variants: maybe a GT500 with V8 and a Mach 1 with TT V6?

-a sport/ST version of the Fusion: doesn't seem like it would be that hard to throw the 2.3 EB in the Fusion or maybe pump up the 2.0 EB, which tuners have already shown has a lot of untapped power

-a performance version of the Explorer? Not sure if they would leave that until the next redesign or not; maybe they want something to compete with the Porsche SUVs and the SRT Grand Cherokee

-SHO version of the upcoming Taurus

Those seem like logical guesses.

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