Take note, Ford....

[Zodiac]

You're killin' me!!:frusty::frusty:






















:lol::lol:

The reason you think the Mustang isn't a muscle car is because you have a Bama tune... :cheers:

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[B4Sunrise]

more content for the dollar.

....you're dorking it with all the '18 price hikes:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a11808079/chevrolet-camaro-ss-base/

A base Mustang GT can still be had for $35k, and if you look Ford increased the options on 2018's Ford has added more standard equipment for the base packages.
A GT Premium can be had for $39k, the $38k SS is cloth seats...

However what GM cannot do with pricing or a refresh is make the Camaro a usable 2+2. What sells cars is ability to fulfil multi roles. In my if you are a parent and love your kids there is no way you put them in the back of a Camaro as a daily driver, vacation maybe though I've seen Camaro rentals and the only time I've seen anyone in the back is for a convertible and then the kids' heads were about even with the crest of the wind shield. My kids enjoy sitting in the back of my GT, and IMO it is a cool place to be. The rear seat of a Mustang looks as though Ford put a lot of effort into making it as usable as possible. Sure it's still small, but I can sit back there, my kids have done 3+ hour drives back their and don't complain.

I just hope Ford recognizes; the Zeta Camaro with was GM's best seller in the modern era, was so apparently because of the looks, engine and roominess. I'd actually pick up a used Zeta Camaro if I thought it was a good deal, I don't think I'd buy an Alpha generation Camaro.

Interesting how GM's alpha platform was an "award winner" and the SS is now gone, the ATS will not be continued and the Camaro is seriously hurting. It shows that performance isn't what sells cars in numbers.

 

[crs2879]

I love my 350, but with Ford build quality, and dealer attitude and technician skill at anywhere near 5k, I buy that BMW all day long. Some of the more premium Ford vehicles, 350, Raptor etc. They get great press but when you own them you see behind the curtain. They are just damn Fords. I love Ford but if they push too much to try and go up market they will fall on their face. They are not ready at almost every level outside of engineering. But the engineers don't run the company.

Of course they are "just damn Fords"...what else would they be? If you own a GT350, then you're in the club that likely paid at, or above MSRP for a production line Ford.......I chuckle whenever I see the guys talking about their "demands" when it comes to these cars. "No one touches or drives my car but me!".....by the time a GT350/350R hits a dealer lot, I bet at least 5 different people have driven it (maybe 100 feet each, but still...addle and MANY, many hands have touched the car. I could afford one but can't justify the $25 - $30K premium over the supercharged, '15 GT in my garage.....because, as you say, it's "just a damn Ford"....:cheers:

 

[Spartan]

....you're dorking it with all the '18 price hikes:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a11808079/chevrolet-camaro-ss-base/

This is long overdue. They missed a whole buyer demographic with their set-up going from a V6 LT nicely loaded to a V8 SS track car. They don't have a V8 that is really for DD that doesn't have all the track features removed.

I think they really thought that people would buy the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder when you have a whole buyer demographic that MUST have a V8, but they don't want the SS because it's designed for track use...it's a performance pack loaded car.

Where they screwed up is not have a daily driver/sometime fun V8 SS that doesn't have all the performance/track extras like you have on the Mustang that are STANDARD on the SS... extra radiators cooling features, the brembos, the performance suspension, summer tires, etc. Remove all those features and you get a nice V8 LT with the V8 SS look but with the LT mechanicals....these are all included in the SS and you cannot get it without it.

Things like the display, mag shocks, exhaust are add ons.

 

[wireeater]

Pretty cool for people who want a simplistic car for just performance.

 

[Modrodr]

Pretty cool for people who want a simplistic car for just performance.

The only quality response in the whole thread. LOL

 

[crs2879]

Pretty cool for people who want a simplistic car for just performance.

My older sister bought a '85 GT in the mid-80's while I was serving in the Army. As I recall, she paid a little less than $10K for the car, lightly used. Story was a guy bought it before checking his insurance cost and returned it the next day (no bearing on the story, just an anecdote). I had just gotten out of the Army, going to college and had no money and was highly jealous. She was kind enough to let me drive it, from time to time and I absolutely loved that car....302, 4BL, factory headers, 5 speed screamer. I think they rated those cars at maybe 210 HP?....but man it would fly. Would fry the tires through the first 3 gears.....I've owned 3 Mustangs since ('91 GT, '01 Bullitt, '15 GTPP) and I would have traded any of them for a pristine '85.......newer cars, with all the "tech" are great but that car was just simple, raw, fun to drive goodness........then her jerk boyfriend convinced her to trade if for a '86 vert with the TBI engine....that car was almost a POS...not nearly the same.

 

[texasboy21]

If you want a stripped down mustang without AC, crank windows, etc Ford makes one.

As for that being a mass produced car you can buy off a lot, no chance. The market has changed (some time ago..). People like and now expect power windows (among other features) from EVERY car that is available for sale.

If Ford were to start selling 1991 base-model spec mustangs they would loose sales on the nicer equipped cars as the car would be deemed cheap, crap, etc.

Its 2017 people like their creature comforts.

 

[crs2879]

I have read that current power window systems are lighter than the old, crank mechanisms......but I have no clue if that is true in the case of the Mustang. I special ordered my '15 as basic as I could, with the options I wanted:
- Base GT
- Performance Package
- Recaro Seats

I agree that the majority of the buying public wants the creature comforts and gadgets.......hence '18 GT pricing exceeding $50K, with options.

 

[Double]

Yep, the market wants performance simplicity from a muscle car, leave the 10 speeds/magnerides/digital dashes to Audi/Merc etc.

In before the new gadgets and all round more modern Mustang will outsell any previous "cheap" Mustang with ease.

 

[B4Sunrise]

This is long overdue. They missed a whole buyer demographic with their set-up going from a V6 LT nicely loaded to a V8 SS track car. They don't have a V8 that is really for DD that doesn't have all the track features removed.

I think they really thought that people would buy the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder when you have a whole buyer demographic that MUST have a V8, but they don't want the SS because it's designed for track use...it's a performance pack loaded car.

Where they screwed up is not have a daily driver/sometime fun V8 SS that doesn't have all the performance/track extras like you have on the Mustang that are STANDARD on the SS... extra radiators cooling features, the brembos, the performance suspension, summer tires, etc. Remove all those features and you get a nice V8 LT with the V8 SS look but with the LT mechanicals....these are all included in the SS and you cannot get it without it.

Things like the display, mag shocks, exhaust are add ons.

Nah - before GM started unloading Camaros on the rental market, they had nearly a 50% take rate on the V8 - in comparison in the U.S. the V8 Mustang take rate is far less. It's just my opinion however people that buy the non-V8 cars are looking for something fun to drive as an everyday car - not track cars. The Camaro is tiny, actually a false rear seat and the trunk is sad, it is not a good car for anyone with needs to use the back seat to seat actual human beings. Yes GM will get more sales by dropping the price, however comparison shoppers are going to look at a Mustang and for the same price they'll get a loaded non-premium Mustang for the same as that bare-bones Camaro and the Mustang will seat four. I don't see Camaro sales ever rivaling the S550 sales until a redesign puts a rear seat that will accommodate actual humans with heads and legs and a trunk that can handle luggage for two (they current one can't.)

 

[B4Sunrise]

Pretty cool for people who want a simplistic car for just performance.

?? Not really, that market is gone, it definitely isn't enough to support a car like a Mustang or Camaro. Loaded Mustang GT's are common, Ford is not a company that makes decisions on a whim, their data is telling them people want loaded Mustangs and that is what they are giving.
And I built out a 2018 Mustang GT as I'd want it, it comes out to about the same price as a 2017, I am passing on the ultra high luxury items, but not all.

 

[GTRacerX.]

Muscle Cars

The Mustang is not now, and never was, a "Muscle Car".

For the love of God, please get that straight.

Explain this: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/gmp790/10-surprising-facts-about-american-muscle-cars/

http://www.bankrate.com/auto/7-best-american-muscle-cars-of-all-time/?amp=1

 

[B4Sunrise]

I love my 350, but with Ford build quality, and dealer attitude and technician skill at anywhere near 5k, I buy that BMW all day long. Some of the more premium Ford vehicles, 350, Raptor etc. They get great press but when you own them you see behind the curtain. They are just damn Fords. I love Ford but if they push too much to try and go up market they will fall on their face. They are not ready at almost every level outside of engineering. But the engineers don't run the company.

Go get that BMW then come talk about build quality, you've never owned one because if you did you wouldn't be saying that. A $6k bill is nothing with a Beamer, you might have just gotten the suspension retuned, a couple of parts replaced. Lease BMW's don't buy one.

On the other hand I agree about Ford dealer's attitude, it's important and I Ford needs to work on it. Ford never saw my Mustang GT after i drove it off the lot. I used to take my F150 in there and it seemed if they fixed one issue they created three more, perhaps coincidence but when I started taking it to a well-recommended mechanic the issues stopped.

 

[CCCP1999]

The GT is still the best bang for the buck and looks the best. If i sold my 2013 C6 today i would go back to a GT, just not in black.

Look at what new C7 Vettes cost.

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