Suspension ride-along eval needed

[shogun32]

Looking for in-car feedback of my GT's setup with it's dual-rate springs and Steeda adjustable Pro-actions. Preferably from someone who has something similar but I'll happily take input from those who have done coil-overs, Bilstein, etc. I'm happy to let you drive my car around a suitable test loop and would be much obliged if I could compare/contrast by driving yours as well. I'm in Springfield VA at the mixing bowl. PM me to coordinate.

I'm happy to come to you as well. Stafford, Manassas, Ashburn, VA, Rockville, Gaithersburg MD and I guess as far as Laurel too.

Sponsored

 

[tj@steeda]

Hey Matt,

What kind of feedback are you looking for? Is there something we can help with in regards to your set-up?

TJ

 

[shogun32]

Looking for "does this feel right/normal" or not. @Biggsy @Bluemustang @SgdriskillGT

 

[tj@steeda]

But what are you experiencing that you don’t think is normal or right?

 

[Biggsy]

Looking for "does this feel right/normal" or not. @Biggsy @Bluemustang @SgdriskillGT

Always down to get a feel for another car and have someone give their feedback on mine as well.

 

[shogun32]

Tonight @Bluemustang was gracious enough to accommodate my request. I got to sample his 6AT with BMR 1000lb/in rear springs and FP Track shocks. And also experience his appetite for enthusiastic driving - we're not quite on the same page on that one.

So a couple quick observations. His car clearly has no problems with grip or confidence. The chassis also tilts a nice, pleasant degree in response to force which gives me an intuitive feel for the car dynamics. Mine is entirely too flat by comparison. "pebble bump" absorption was better in his car - call it a little more muffled but still tactile enough to know what's going on at the wheel.

He too noticed the "overdone" stiffness of the springs being out of sync with the shock damping. I've long felt the car had a 'vague' feeling where I couldn't really tell what it was going to do until I put enough force into the corner for it to finally take a set but even then the picture still wasn't clear. 5 minutes driving his car and it felt like I'd been driving it every day for a week. I asked, it responded. Like a set of comfy slippers.

Back in my car I added a 1/2 turn of rebound to the front shocks. That definitely helped. The really annoying 'harmonic bouncing' I would get was definitely reduced. I went over some nasty expansion joints by Tysons Corner (495 outer loop, 3rd lane) and the improvement was pronounced but not fully resolved. I can't adjust the rear shock rebound without putting the car up on a jack (need wheel droop to reach in there) so that will have to wait. My guess I need a half turn more rebound in the rear and possibly another quarter turn of rebound in the front.

The reason I hadn't messed with rebound previously was I had read and had been assured that "everybody" ran these Steeda pro-Actions with the rebound all the way open for street duty. When I installed the shocks I had already turned the rebound in by 1/2 turn so surely things should have been fine(?). Maybe if I had the 200/800 springs, but not these dual rates. IMO the dual rates (front in particular, 220-350lb/in) are too stiff for any sensible street use. If I can't find happiness with what I have I'll likely swap in the front half of BMR's SP083 or similar ~240in/lb spring with less than 1" drop.

Unrelated observations. Ryan has the Steeda Black pucks (90 shore) in the differential lockouts and it didn't take much to get it to sing. Not annoying since it was intermittent but very clearly audible. I have the Whiteline (70 shore) and aside from the occasional 'kthunk' when putting the trans in gear at a light, neigh silent. When going into higher revs, my transmission growls and vibrates a very healthy degree due to the Steeda insert while the A6 was sufficiently quiet to let the engine noise come in clearly.

@Biggsy you're up.

 

[Biggsy]

Good you were able to test out a different car. Good feedback.
Do you think steering response has to do with you having a progressive spring?

 

[shogun32]

Do you think steering response has to do with you having a progressive spring?

It's not the progressive nature as such but rather the rate, I think. According to Steeda the lower rate is "almost all used up" just sitting static. Maybe at 10/10 in the hands of a (semi-)professional race car driver on closed courses these front springs work like magic. They also may be fantastic for autocross where pitching the car hard this way and that necessitates the configuration. For anything else they're probably not a good idea.

I have a 4-loop interchange I routinely do 10 or so laps of. The EB/PP is very clearly soft and a little pitchy. The GTI bombs thru the arcs like it's on rails even though the chassis is tilted more. Front drive and a more upright seating probably is helping out too. The GT holds a higher average speed thru the curve but not without a little bit of drama and that nagging feeling of is she going to hold or let go? Ultimately I think the front springs are just too stiff and it's negatively affecting the overall traction package. Something like a 220/270 config or 220/300 but the higher rate comes in MUCH later would be a better combo I think.

 

[Bluemustang]

I'm really glad I got to meet you @shogun32. Really enjoyed the drive and getting to talk with you! It was fun.

You know I was thinking more about it after you left - I think you should try the Bilsteins, seriously. I think you might be very surprised. It seems to me to be a damper issue, instead of a spring issue. You'd be surprised what a really good damper can do. I'd still prefer it with the BMR handling spring, but I think it could still be very good.

Case in point, JPaulsen who finished 2nd at Solo Nationals CAM-C previously ran the Steeda DRs and Konis and the car handled well but reportedly rode poorly. Later he switched to 600 lb front springs and Megan Racing coilovers (basically rebranded Pedders and monotube design) and it rode way better than it ever did. Way way stiffer front springs and rides better. Now of course the Steeda ProActions are valved differently than the Koni Sport but it's still a Koni. Having used the Koni Sports and knowing what they feel like, the Steedas gave me a similar impression but not as crashy as the Koni can be. Better on the compression damping. But a similar overall feel.

It can still ride good with stiff springs with a quality damper.

Also, imo BMR handling springs plus Bilstein would be glorious! Better than mine I'm fairly sure of it. Roadway 5.0 switched to the Bilsteins, loves em. Several other guys on here run the Bilsteins and are very happy too.

My last recommendation is go easy on the sway bar, especially the rear. That comment you made about "is it going to let go?" That little bit of drama? Roll resistance can be a good thing, but to excess it places the car on a knife's edge. The breakaway is more abrupt and, unexpected bc so much roll resistance lulls you into a false sense of confidence.

In conclusion, a damper change (and possibly spring change) is in order and would set you up real nicely. You can get a GREAT foundation to make it a beast on the street and still capable on the track.

Edit: I should have stated JPaulsen's Megan coilovers were custom valved. And the rear spring was Steeda DR. And it isn't that those dampers are so fantastic, its just what a well-tuned monotube can do. The Steeda ProActions or Konis, you're limited on what you can do with them. Also, these cars work by utilizing rear traction to put down as much power as possible. If you need more front grip, don't take away from the rear by stiffening the bar there. Hope that helps to clarify.

 

[shogun32]

sounds like I just need more money. (and time)

I added another 1/4 turn of rebound to the fronts (now at 3/4 turn out from seated) and it was too much of an imbalance with the still un-molested rear. When you run a high-rate spring though you often mask lousy compression behavior in the shock valving. I *really* need to rip one of these Konis apart and see what they did. Given the thickness of the oil I'm betting I'll find a compression circuit that is way too heavy and could also stand to be converted into a 2-stage stack.

I'm not quite ready to toss the pro-Actions overboard just yet. Even though I do have the Bilstein rears sitting in a box. I'm under the delusion that the front springs are the primary culprit in excessive resistance to weight transfer and chassis feedback.

 

[shogun32]

Now of course the Steeda ProActions are valved differently than the Koni Sport

that's a supposition but it's never been proven, unfortunately. Except perhaps observationally thru a butt-o-meter.

 

[Bluemustang]

that's a supposition but it's never been proven, unfortunately. Except perhaps observationally thru a butt-o-meter.

Yeah I haven't seen the damping curves. For the time being, I would try turning the rebound up to halfway front and rear and see how you feel with that. It should make it feel much more locked down and composed vs. current.

 

[shogun32]

I'm under the delusion that the front springs are the primary culprit in excessive resistance to weight transfer and chassis feedback.

We'll find out shortly. BMR SP084 springs are on their way to me.

 

[Bluemustang]

We'll find out shortly. BMR SP084 springs are on their way to me.

Do it, and get the rears too and the front Bilsteins. Trust me you won't regret it.

I don't agree that the front stiffness is contributing your issue though. But I do agree about changing the springs (and the dampers). The Koni twin tubes struggle getting enough low speed damping without making the high speed damping excessive. A good monotube like the Bilstein or the FP can.

Also, a big reason why mine rides so well (and Biggsy who has same setup) is that the ride frequency is tuned for "flat ride". It allows a natural chassis composure so that it almost self-settles. After the front experiences the initial bump, the slightly higher rear ride frequency helps the car "catch up".

 

[shogun32]

things are looking up after some adjustments.
Steeda Sport Progressives or Competition Dual Rate Springs?

Sponsored