Suspension or tyre improvements ?

[StealthStang]

So Ive been running my NX2 turbo modded ecoboost performance pack for a while now, slowly trying to get used to the extra power. Mostly its my driving thats needed to adjust but i think im starting to notice that grip or handling dynamics are a bit on edge now due to the extra power and torque. Im not sure exactly how much its making since ive not dynoed it but its at least 400HP.
Im on the 19 inch performance pack wheels with Pirelli P-Zero 255 R19 tyres. These do seem to be good tyres but the seem to need a lot of heat to get the best grip out of them, very slippy in the rain or cold days until you do a few launches.
Speaking of hard launches, another new issue is that the car squats back more heavily than it used to before on acceleration, this is causing my steering to go light and its quite tricky in corners or windy roads. If i stomp on the throttle pedal too hard the car breaks away easily, oversteer and also fishtailing. Its quite a handlful, I think a GT with the heavier engine in the front is a bit more planted compared to my car.

So i was thinking, maybe switching to a different tyre like a Michellin Pilot Sport 4S ( I think the HPP uses these ?)
I really dont want to change my factory performance pack black wheels (i think aftermarket look doesnt suit the car), but if the only solution is to go bigger than 255 then id be open to the option.

So thats my idea with the grip but can the light steering on hard acceleration be improved ? The only thing i can think of is making the suspension significantly stiffer and lower, but thats really going to affect normal driving. I kinda like the stock ride height, helps me get over speed bumps and stuff, the ride quality is good too. Has anybody experimented with other dampers or coilover springs on these cars ?

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[shogun32]

Has anybody experimented with other dampers or coilover springs on these cars ?

How about try spending some quality time in the suspension section?

You can run 265 width and 80 wear-rating tires but again, if the tire is not at operating temp it'll just spin. You could run Cup2 and it won't make a difference.

 

[WildHorse]

Tires will do more for your car than any suspension or horsepower upgrades. By far.

 

[Adamone92]

How about try spending some quality time in the suspension section?

You can run 265 width and 80 wear-rating tires but again, if the tire is not at operating temp it'll just spin. You could run Cup2 and it won't make a difference.

yeah, theres like a million suspension threads on here as well as comparisons of different setups. I just finished reading pretty much all of them.

definitely agree for op to go research those some. also need better tires, there are aftermarket options that are replicas of the performance pack wheels, but larger I believe.

general consensus says (things ive learned from my reading)

struts/shocks: ford performance track or Bilstein b6
springs: your choice really, bmr handling are a common and good choice. steeda, other bmr springs (min drop etc), and eibach pro springs seem to be common go to's as well.. just depends what rates/how low you want it. doesn't sound like you want to go too low.

if you want coilovers; its advised you shell out for higher end ones instead of budget ones.

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front k brace setup from the performance pack highly recommended and cheap

rear irs braces are highly recommended for these cars (bmr or steeda)

steeda alignment stuff
I believe i see you (@shogun32 ) often recommend the whiteline offerings for some bushings, correct?

sway bars for some fine tuning if needed at the end

 

[shogun32]

I believe i see you (@shogun32 ) often recommend the whiteline offerings for some bushings, correct?

Yes I believe they are the best/correct answer and vastly cheaper to buy than BMR/Steeda solutions but can be more expensive to install.

 

[TeeLew]

Just my opinion here.

If you aren't competing or running the car on a racetrack, I'd keep the stock springs and ride height stock. I'd add the Bilsteins to the mix, because I put them on damn near everything I own. They're always better than OEM. If you want to really raise the grip level of the car, then you need good tires (you've been given recommendations) and you need to use them properly. I really feel that upgrading tires should only happen if you do a performance oriented alignment at the same time. For parts, the alignment means camber bolts or plates for extra front negative camber.

If you want to compete or spend time on a track, then there is a whole laundry list of things to do. Most people just want a fun car to play around on a back road, but not much sacrifice to drive daily.

 

[StealthStang]

Lots of good advice here.

Okay so the Bilsteins seem like a good idea, ive used the B6s on my Volvo C3 T5 before and they yielded excellent results.
My car is performance pack from the factory so it already has the k-brace and uprated rear roll bars.

This car is mostly a street car. I like to take it it to quiet back roads in the weekends, I have been to the track but its quite far away from where i stay, so im just happy doing some medium speeds in empty roads out of town. Track is also a bit too harsh on my engine cooling and brakes i think.
I want to keep the stock ride height since the roads near me arent exactly super smooth in places.

Okay so lots of you are saying tyres but which one exactly ? The P-Zeros seem to have a narrow operating temp range, ive used Pilot 4S on my other car and it performs much better in the cold but that car is AWD so it may not work as nicely on a Mustang.
If the difference isnt big then i might as well stick to the pirrellis.

*Edit anybody know the OEM for the shocks on the Performance Pack cars ? Are they not already Bilsteins ?

 

[StealthStang]

Okay so Ive done some more research and ive found that the performance pack dampers are already pretty good and options like the Bilstein B6 and Koni STR.T are not going to be a significant upgrade.
The squat and steering lightness will be helped more by going to lower springs which will lower the centre of gravity an resist the squat issue more.

Though its not clear if the Ford Performance X lowering springs are actually different from the performance pack springs. Most info says they arent the same, and the X springs are both lower and stiffer, some places say the X spring is same height as performance pack springs but stiffer.

 

[TopJimmyCooks]

So Ive been running my NX2 turbo modded ecoboost performance pack for a while now, slowly trying to get used to the extra power. Mostly its my driving thats needed to adjust but i think im starting to notice that grip or handling dynamics are a bit on edge now due to the extra power and torque. Im not sure exactly how much its making since ive not dynoed it but its at least 400HP.
Im on the 19 inch performance pack wheels with Pirelli P-Zero 255 R19 tyres. These do seem to be good tyres but the seem to need a lot of heat to get the best grip out of them, very slippy in the rain or cold days until you do a few launches.
Speaking of hard launches, another new issue is that the car squats back more heavily than it used to before on acceleration, this is causing my steering to go light and its quite tricky in corners or windy roads. If i stomp on the throttle pedal too hard the car breaks away easily, oversteer and also fishtailing. Its quite a handlful, I think a GT with the heavier engine in the front is a bit more planted compared to my car.

So i was thinking, maybe switching to a different tyre like a Michellin Pilot Sport 4S ( I think the HPP uses these ?)
I really dont want to change my factory performance pack black wheels (i think aftermarket look doesnt suit the car), but if the only solution is to go bigger than 255 then id be open to the option.

So thats my idea with the grip but can the light steering on hard acceleration be improved ? The only thing i can think of is making the suspension significantly stiffer and lower, but thats really going to affect normal driving. I kinda like the stock ride height, helps me get over speed bumps and stuff, the ride quality is good too. Has anybody experimented with other dampers or coilover springs on these cars ?

Hey Stealth,
I've shared this on a couple other threads, but this is a great resource. I'd read it before spending any money: https://speedsecrets.com/tune-car-handling/

 

[shogun32]

Okay so Ive done some more research and ive found that the performance pack dampers are already pretty good and options like the Bilstein B6 and Koni STR.T are not going to be a significant upgrade.

you need a better source of information. The front dampers aren't horrible but the rears are just trash. If you are trying to economize, then put B6 rears on and leave the PP1 fronts alone.

The squat and steering lightness will be helped more by going to lower springs which will lower the centre of gravity an resist the squat issue more.

er no. Squat is a function of spring rate (soft) in response to weight shift and slow-rate compression damping. Stiffer rear springs and firmer-damped rear shocks will resist/slow rear squat. Rear squat is good, just not too much of it or too fast. Drag cars slam the car back on it's haunches to put as much weight on the rear wheels to get as much grip as possible. You don't want that in a normal car.

Though its not clear if the Ford Performance X lowering springs are actually different from the performance pack springs. Most info says they arent the same, and the X springs are both lower and stiffer, some places say the X spring is same height as performance pack springs but stiffer.

They are NOT the same. X/Y springs are "progressive" - well actually multi-rate. PP1 are straight rate for the purposes of discussion.

I've got a brand new set of BMR083 rear springs on the shelf as well a set of used GT350 rear springs. Neither one will work with PP1 rear shocks because the shocks are crap and wildly underdamped.

 

[TeeLew]

Hey Stealth,
I've shared this on a couple other threads, but this is a great resource. I'd read it before spending any money: https://speedsecrets.com/tune-car-handling/

By all means get some books, but this one would not be on the top of my list.

 

[StealthStang]

you need a better source of information. The front dampers aren't horrible but the rears are just trash. If you are trying to economize, then put B6 rears on and leave the PP1 fronts alone.

Any idea if Koni Orange (STR.T) or Red will be better than B6s ? They are going on special at the moment. I can get B6s but they arent in stock and are more expensive.

er no. Squat is a function of spring rate (soft) in response to weight shift and slow-rate compression damping. Stiffer rear springs and firmer-damped rear shocks will resist/slow rear squat. Rear squat is good, just not too much of it or too fast. Drag cars slam the car back on it's haunches to put as much weight on the rear wheels to get as much grip as possible. You don't want that in a normal car.

Well i dont drag race my car, and I dont like the way how the steering unloads under acceleration, it feels like i have not front end grip. Sure some squat is fine, i understand that but it doesnt feel right as it stands


They are NOT the same. X/Y springs are "progressive" - well actually multi-rate. PP1 are straight rate for the purposes of discussion.

I've got a brand new set of BMR083 rear springs on the shelf as well a set of used GT350 rear springs. Neither one will work with PP1 rear shocks because the shocks are crap and wildly underdamped.

Yeah i have heard the rears are worse. So then what about putting the lowering springs and changing all the dampers (front + rear).

 

[shogun32]

Any idea if Koni Orange (STR.T) will be better than B6s ?

Koni and "good" should never be used in the same sentence, really.
Bilstein is always preferred over Koni. Granted I have the Steeda pro-action adjustables (Koni Yellow clone with unknown valving change from standard) and happy enough for the moment.

The SP083 front+rear and B6 or FRPP Track shocks at all corners has been done lots of times and it's the cheapest known good (enough) solution.

 

[TeeLew]

Koni and "good" should never be used in the same sentence, really.

We can be friends.

 

[StealthStang]

Yeah ive had excellent results with the Bilstein B6s before, so I guess its probably worth going for them. Ive got a brake pad change coming up so i can do them all at the same time.

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