square tire setup vs staggered setup 2015 GT

[rnoswal34]

I have a staggered setup on my car now. 20x10 rear and 20x8.5 front. They are American Muscle wheels magnetic style gloss black machined front and rear. Rear offset 48mm and fronts are 30 mm. The both fill out the front and rear mostly flush with a 295x40x20 rear tire and a 255x35x20 front tire. I am mostly happy with the look but of course as a car owner I want something else. RTR offers a square fit with 20x9.5 with 33mm offset wheels. They don't show a car picture with those wheels and tires. I am curious about that flush look with that offset on all 4 corners or will the fronts appear to stick out too far and the rears not enough. I have seen them on Chargers but not a Mustang yet. I would like a bit more traction up front and would still like the advantage of being able to rotate the tires.

So, any opinions on this? Any pics of Mustangs with this setup. The suspention is stock still so the only difference would be the wheels.

Thanks
Russ

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[MAGS1]

So I run 20x10 +35 with 285’s all the way around. What you’re looking at will be close so this should give you an idea. Happy to snap a few more pics if you’d like.

 

[shogun32]

there's like 3000 pages of pics of wheels, many in 19x10
I personally prefer no less than 1.5d camber Rear, >2 up front. And x10et40 so you don't get the poke as seen in previous post. If you need to shim, a 3mm should suffice.

 

[MAGS1]

Here’s a few more. The rear does poke a tad but not much.

Rear

Rear

Front

 

[chuckhammer]

I recently derived the below formula, both in response to another wheel/tire fitment question, as well as out of curiosity:
H = W/2 - O + F + G + sin(C)*D

H = Hub wheel mount surface to outer fender surface (mm)
W = Wheel width (bead-to-bead; mm)
O = Wheel offset (mm)
F = Wheel flange thickness (mm)
G = Measured gap between wheel flange and fender outer surface (mm)
C = Camber angle (always negative; deg)
D = Wheel diameter (mm)

I calculated the above dimension for the S550 to be:
Front 92 mm
Rear 89 mm

These values are approximate as my ability to accurately measure G is limited.

If you want to know the wheel offset for a given wheel size that will have a flush fitment (zero value for G), we can re-arrange the above equation to solve for O:
O = W/2 - H + F + G + sin(C)*D

For your 20x8.5 fronts:
W = 216 mm
H = 92 mm
F = 6 mm (assumption)
G = 0 (goal)
C = -1.0° (assumption)
D = 508 mm
Front wheel offset for flush fit = Approx. 13 mm

For your 20x10 rears:
W = 254 mm
H = 89 mm
F = 6 mm (assumption)
G = 0 (goal)
C = -1.2° (assumption)
D = 508 mm
Rear wheel offset for flush fit = Approx. 33 mm

Note that I assumed your front camber (-1.0°) and rear camber (-1.2°) as well as the wheel rim flange thickness (6 mm). These assumptions affect the above offsets.

 

[shogun32]

I recently derived the below formula, both in response to another wheel/tire fitment question, as well as out of curiosity:
H = W/2 - O + F + G + sin(C)*D

Hot damn, we got some SCIENCE(tm) going on in here!
a plumb line, level, and carpenter's square can get you a very good number for 'G'.

Here is a quick rundown of wheel width, offset and relative location vis-a-vis outer fender. It's reasonably accurate.

!! NOTE !!
Outer limit is defined as 'flush' (can't see tire) as a vertical line dropped from fender lip, as referenced from mounting face.
Rim lip (1/2") ignored so don't conflate with accepted definition of Backspacing.
It also doesn't factor molded protrutions in tires. Mild amounts (0.25") of 'poke' can be mitigated with >2deg of camber.
There is some leeway on the values but the 'inner' should be considered the hard limit (or within ~3mm of same)
to prevent rim from hitting suspension hard-parts. Rubbing of wheel well liners also not considered unless noted.
The further toward the 'outer' limit the more likely 35-section tires will be required. In general, select 27" diameter tires.


Limits (in) outer inner hub
S550 F 3.7 6.6 70.5
S550 R 3.6- 7.5
Camaro F 4.0 6.1+ 67.1 (Magneride)
Camaro R 3.8 7.2+
S5 F 4? 6.2- 66.6 27mm R13 ball, also 32/35/45/47/50mm lengths, 10et40 supposedly fits
S5 R 3.8 ? 19/20x9.5 et25/29/33, supposedly et20-35, <<27.5" diameter

19x8.5 ET29 3.1 5.4 Audi S5
19x8.5 ET44 2.5 6 F150
19x9 ET25 3.5 4.5

19x9 ET40 2.9 6.07
19x9 ET45 2.73 6.27 PP1 front

19x9.5 ET15 4.16 5.34 Challenger front
19x9.5 ET22 c 3.9 5.6 ESR RF02, VMR v710/705
19x9.5 ET25 3.75 5.75
19x9.5 ET30 3.6 5.9 Forgestar F14
19x9.5 ET33 c 3.45 6.0 Centerline 670GM, VMR V705
19x9.5 ET35 3.4 6.13 Konig CG9N514357, Enkei TFR
19x9.5 ET40 3.2 6.3 Drag DR48
19x9.5 ET45 3.0 6.5
19x9.5 ET53 2.66 6.8 PP1 rear

19x10 ET20 c 4.2 5.8 SS1LE (sticks out 5mm w/o camber, about 10mm to strut), VMR V703
Challenger front (flush)
19x10 ET25 c 4.0 6.0 VMR V703/801/810, XO Moscow
19x10 ET30 c3 3.8 6.2 Curva C300
18x10 ET33 c8 3.7 6.3 FlowOne F2 ($187.40 F281003GGMS tirerack)
19x10 ET35 3.6 6.4 MRR M600, Velgen vf5 (20")
Mustang: ~8mm poke if <1.5 camber
19x10 ET40 3.4 6.6 RTX GT350R
Mustang: front - optional 3-5mm spacer
19x10 ET42 3.5 6.65 Forgestar F14
19x10 ET45 3.2 6.8 will NOT clear

19x10.5 ET10 c 4.9 5.6
19x10.5 ET15 c 4.7 5.8
19x10.5 ET20 c 4.5 6.0 Challenger rear (flush)
19x10.5 ET22 Rays Gramlights 57DR
Camaro poke ~12mm both. Front needs 5mm spacer
19x10.5 ET24 4.3 6.2 PP2 front, 305/35 fits
19x10.5 ET25 c3 4.3 6.2 VMR V810, Konig Hypergram
SS1LE: strut grind w/o spacer, 305/30 confirmed, 2.5deg max camber
19x10.5 ET30 4.1 6.4 OE GT350, ESR RF02, Curva C300
Mustang: decent up front, pokey in back
19x10.5 ET35 c 3.9 6.6 Ray's gramlights, VMR V710FF/V810, Enkei 460-8105-6638/490-8105-6525/490-910-6540/490-810-6538(maybe)
Mustang: 4mm to front strut, 285/35 max
SS1LE: "flush/poke" rear, 12mm spacer front
19x10.5 ET40 3.7 6.8 MRR GF6/7, Konig UF09514406
19x10.5 ET45 3.5 7.0 Centerline SM1v7 or Velgen vf5 (20") front use 10+mm, VMR V710FF/V810

19x11 ET11 c3 5.1 5.9 SS1LE: 2.7 camber
19x11 ET15
19x11 ET20
19x11 ET24 4.55 6.4 MRR M600 (2.5d camber for 305/30)
Challenger: MRR 392
19x11 ET30 4.3 6.7 Mustang: opt. 3mm spacer, wider than 285 may be problem (front) if big rim protector (eg. PS4S)
19x11 ET35 4.1 6.9 VMR V810
19x11 ET40 3.9 7.1 XO Moscow
19x11 ET43 c 3.8 7.2 SS1LE
18x11 ET44 c 3.77 7.2 FlowOne F2 ($227.48, F281103GGMS tirerack)
19x11 ET45 3.77 7.3
19x11 ET50 3.5 7.5 M600 rear, PP2=48
Mustang: giri^2 flush
19x11 ET56 3.3 7.7 Forgestar F14, Velgen vf5 (20")

 

[chuckhammer]

Hot damn, we got some SCIENCE(tm) going on in here!
a plumb line, level, and carpenter's square can get you a very good number for 'G'.

Here is a quick rundown of wheel width, offset and relative location vis-a-vis outer fender. It's reasonably accurate.

!! NOTE !!
Outer limit is defined as 'flush' (can't see tire) as a vertical line dropped from fender lip, as referenced from mounting face.
Rim lip (1/2") ignored so don't conflate with accepted definition of Backspacing.
It also doesn't factor molded protrutions in tires. Mild amounts (0.25") of 'poke' can be mitigated with >2deg of camber.
There is some leeway on the values but the 'inner' should be considered the hard limit (or within ~3mm of same)
to prevent rim from hitting suspension hard-parts. Rubbing of wheel well liners also not considered unless noted.
The further toward the 'outer' limit the more likely 35-section tires will be required. In general, select 27" diameter tires.


Limits (in) outer inner hub
S550 F 3.7 6.6 70.5
S550 R 3.6- 7.5
Camaro F 4.0 6.1+ 67.1 (Magneride)
Camaro R 3.8 7.2+
S5 F 4? 6.2- 66.6 27mm R13 ball, also 32/35/45/47/50mm lengths, 10et40 supposedly fits
S5 R 3.8 ? 19/20x9.5 et25/29/33, supposedly et20-35, <<27.5" diameter

19x8.5 ET29 3.1 5.4 Audi S5
19x8.5 ET44 2.5 6 F150
19x9 ET25 3.5 4.5

19x9 ET40 2.9 6.07
19x9 ET45 2.73 6.27 PP1 front

19x9.5 ET15 4.16 5.34 Challenger front
19x9.5 ET22 c 3.9 5.6 ESR RF02, VMR v710/705
19x9.5 ET25 3.75 5.75
19x9.5 ET30 3.6 5.9 Forgestar F14
19x9.5 ET33 c 3.45 6.0 Centerline 670GM, VMR V705
19x9.5 ET35 3.4 6.13 Konig CG9N514357, Enkei TFR
19x9.5 ET40 3.2 6.3 Drag DR48
19x9.5 ET45 3.0 6.5
19x9.5 ET53 2.66 6.8 PP1 rear

19x10 ET20 c 4.2 5.8 SS1LE (sticks out 5mm w/o camber, about 10mm to strut), VMR V703
Challenger front (flush)
19x10 ET25 c 4.0 6.0 VMR V703/801/810, XO Moscow
19x10 ET30 c3 3.8 6.2 Curva C300
18x10 ET33 c8 3.7 6.3 FlowOne F2 ($187.40 F281003GGMS tirerack)
19x10 ET35 3.6 6.4 MRR M600, Velgen vf5 (20")
Mustang: ~8mm poke if <1.5 camber
19x10 ET40 3.4 6.6 RTX GT350R
Mustang: front - optional 3-5mm spacer
19x10 ET42 3.5 6.65 Forgestar F14
19x10 ET45 3.2 6.8 will NOT clear

19x10.5 ET10 c 4.9 5.6
19x10.5 ET15 c 4.7 5.8
19x10.5 ET20 c 4.5 6.0 Challenger rear (flush)
19x10.5 ET22 Rays Gramlights 57DR
Camaro poke ~12mm both. Front needs 5mm spacer
19x10.5 ET24 4.3 6.2 PP2 front, 305/35 fits
19x10.5 ET25 c3 4.3 6.2 VMR V810, Konig Hypergram
SS1LE: strut grind w/o spacer, 305/30 confirmed, 2.5deg max camber
19x10.5 ET30 4.1 6.4 OE GT350, ESR RF02, Curva C300
Mustang: decent up front, pokey in back
19x10.5 ET35 c 3.9 6.6 Ray's gramlights, VMR V710FF/V810, Enkei 460-8105-6638/490-8105-6525/490-910-6540/490-810-6538(maybe)
Mustang: 4mm to front strut, 285/35 max
SS1LE: "flush/poke" rear, 12mm spacer front
19x10.5 ET40 3.7 6.8 MRR GF6/7, Konig UF09514406
19x10.5 ET45 3.5 7.0 Centerline SM1v7 or Velgen vf5 (20") front use 10+mm, VMR V710FF/V810

19x11 ET11 c3 5.1 5.9 SS1LE: 2.7 camber
19x11 ET15
19x11 ET20
19x11 ET24 4.55 6.4 MRR M600 (2.5d camber for 305/30)
Challenger: MRR 392
19x11 ET30 4.3 6.7 Mustang: opt. 3mm spacer, wider than 285 may be problem (front) if big rim protector (eg. PS4S)
19x11 ET35 4.1 6.9 VMR V810
19x11 ET40 3.9 7.1 XO Moscow
19x11 ET43 c 3.8 7.2 SS1LE
18x11 ET44 c 3.77 7.2 FlowOne F2 ($227.48, F281103GGMS tirerack)
19x11 ET45 3.77 7.3
19x11 ET50 3.5 7.5 M600 rear, PP2=48
Mustang: giri^2 flush
19x11 ET56 3.3 7.7 Forgestar F14, Velgen vf5 (20")

Thanks for all the data. Happy to see my calcs are pretty close on the S550. Within a couple of mm; maybe less depending on the rounding.

It was fun to try and determine a relationship between all the known inputs. Many folks want a flush fitment but it's not very straightforward how to achieve that under all circumstances. Avoiding contact with the shocks and struts is more important, of course. I didn't have a good way of calculating that dimension from the hub wheel mounting surface without jacking my car up and removing a front and rear wheel.

 

[rnoswal34]

Thanks for all that info, too much info!! lol

The hard thing was to find the front and rear track of the mustang s550. I found numbers that say the car in the front is 62.5 in ( 1.587 m ) and rear 64.9 ( 1.648 m). I would imagine that number is without the rotor but I can't be positive even though a rotor would not make a difference in the stagger numbers. The body is supposed to be 75.4 in wide (1.915 m ). I found a nice site called Will They Fit.com. shows how the wheel and offset look as you put the all the numbers.

Mostly I wanted to know how square the track was on the s550 mustang. It is not square. More width on the front means better stability in a corner and less chance to push. So you can only make the tires and wheels stick out so far from the front fenders before it "looks" terrible. So thanks for the math and all the different vehicle combinations. That was a lot of work for someone but more than I needed.

Russ

 

[rnoswal34]

Hey MAGS1, I do like the way they are pretty close to flush with the fenders or even a little bit out in the back. I do have a 175x40 tire on a 10 inch wide, 20 inch rear wheel. My plan is to get either a 295 or 305. I just used what I had from an older pair of rims. That will fill out the rears but to get the fronts like yours I will need close to a 1/2 inch spacer. I really was hoping to get eaually wide rims all around so I could rotate them but the offset needs to be different front to rear because of the track difference front to rear. Maybe the stock 18's looked ok at first but as you know, wheels are almost always the first mod.

Thanks

Russ

Now, My differntial is whining and needs to be rebuilt. Was like that when I bought it but didn't hear it until I got a quieter exhaust system. 3.15 gear, paddle shifted automatic. Any leads?

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