Some observations fighting IAT's with JLT CAI

Discussion in 'V8 5.0L Engine / Mods: Bolt-ons, Exhaust, Tuning' started by pgonza2723, Jul 12, 2019 at 3:02 PM.

  1. pgonza2723

    pgonza2723 Well-Known Member

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    So like everyone else I've been looking at ways of combating some of the crazy high IATs I've see after getting my JLT CAI. Before I started playing around with different options I would see traffic IATs in Texas summers as high as 165* slowly moving through traffic at sub-10mph or at a standstill. I had looked at different options such as Velossa big mouth and upon inspection, saw that is wasn't solving any airlfow issues due to the JLT snorkel provided in the kit solving the airflow issue to begin with. First thing I tried was opening up the honeycomb areas in the front grill feeding that inlet. This tremendously helped drop IATs when I started moving...but key word when moving. With this alone I would see IATs when moving with 8-10* of ambient outside temps. Not ideal, but same time much better than before.

    Second project was to try and shield the inlet pipe and JLT surround from radiant heat. I figured heat soak from within the engine bay while idling etc etc was worth a few degrees. For this I tried DEI's reflective high temp tape. Shortly after this is when I hit the road course at MSR-Houston and found temps to go towards 3-6* of ambient, but idling/slow traffic would still get me to the 140-150s. Once got moving, the temps dropped quickly to the 3-6* within a minute of driving. This made me figure some air from the engine bay was still getting into the intake somehow. The other observation of this is that the CAI components were no longer too hot to touch after a track session. I could pop the hood, and put my hand on all parts covered and it would for sure be warm, but not get burned by it. So looking around I saw that there seemed to be minimal compression of the JLT hood seal or even rub marks on the hood liner. This got me thinking their might be a gap, which would make this is the source of high temp air leaking into the CAI causing higher IATs. Easy, got some insulation strips to test the theory and wow what a difference. So far on consistent 95*+ days I haven't seen IATs go higher than 140*, usually hovering high 120s-135*. This also translates to IATs dropping even at slower speeds closer to ambient.

    Pictured is after driving around to varies destinations for a few hours with temps coming down off of 98*. N-Gauge shows 95* air temp and the car's onboard shows 97*, so hot nonetheless. As you can see even after a few hours of moving around, and sitting at one of the longest red lights ever it seemed... the IATs started at 125* and dropped down to 107* with 200 yards of the light.

    So is this by any means a one all be all type solution. Absolutely not, but putting my observations and trials out there for anyone looking to combat the higher IATs that come with a JLT type system. IMG_5630.png IMG_5639.png IMG_5640.png IMG_5641.png IMG_5642.png
     
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  2. frank s

    frank s Well-Known Member

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    Nice progress. Would you recommend the insulation strips to close any gap, first? Could that reduce the need for anyting, or much, else?

    Only a little sloppy on the honeycomb opening and insulation installation. My kind of handiwork.
     
  3. crimson_crowd_eater

    crimson_crowd_eater Well-Known Member

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    Man on the stock airbox here in TN I was getting IAT of around 124 with AAT at 92 while sitting in a parking lot. Once moving it came down to about 98, but still.

    One thing I might look at is where the box is pulling air from. Try to seal more the neck of the box that comes forward towards the front of the car that funnels air into the intake. I've heard that a lot of these intakes have quite the gap and can pull in a lot of hot air from inside the car.
     
  4. OP
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    pgonza2723

    pgonza2723 Well-Known Member

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    Yea for sure...it's not noticeable at all from front on or any other angle except for close up so figured...meh... functional...doesn't have to be pretty. What it does show is where their is contact with hood and where there isn't. I'm going to keep adding to the top till I see it deform to see how much gap there may be and find a better/cleaner solution to closing the gap.


    So I tried to get a good pic of it but the JLT snorkel actually comes pretty close to the grill opening and gets progressively wider to wedge itself into the airbox so seals it pretty decent from that aspect. So I guess based on your feedback, I'm getting close to stock airbox performance with the CAI... I'll take that all day long. Honestly, I'm not sure there is much else that can be done to drop or eliminate heat from this area, especially considering how thin the plastic is of the CAI box. As it stands now though, in TX summer heat, I think it's pretty close to good as it gets for CAI.
     
  5. cib24

    cib24 Active Member

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    Does the JLT even give you more hp than the stock intake? The stock design looks pretty damn good.

    Anyway, rule of thumb is the factory intakes on cars are true cold air units that are sealed off from the engine bay, so even if the JLT has a larger filter area, in summer weather you are almost always better off with a OEM system. In the winter the JLT may have an advantage.

    Otherwise, just run 250cc/min of water injection with an AEM kit. Then it doesn't matter how much your intake kit heatsoaks. The water will cool down the intake charge before it enters the motor. It's common in the turbo world since turbos compress the intake charge and that function naturally heats up the air to an insane amount.
     
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  6. crimson_crowd_eater

    crimson_crowd_eater Well-Known Member

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    My only other suggestion would be to try to fabricate some type of full lid. You have decent stripping along the top to form a seal with the hood, but I would try to form an actual lid. That might help some since we know closed boxes are better than open air.
     
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    pgonza2723

    pgonza2723 Well-Known Member

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    I've never dyno'd the car, but this forum is full of threads and guys who have dyno'd showing gains. I've been doing this for a while now and there is give and take with everything, but being the power they seem to make with these coyotes, the gains are worth higher IATs. Now on in the 2v world (I used to have an 01 GT prior), not a chance in the world more air was ever gonna help those heads breath unless it was forced lol. As far something like water/meth injection... way too much work. As it stands now, I don't think I'm too far off the stock airbox IAT's.
     
  8. AnalogDan

    AnalogDan Well-Known Member

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    At what point do you just admit to yourself that you should have stuck with the stock intake...?
     
  9. OP
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    pgonza2723

    pgonza2723 Well-Known Member

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    A year ago it was a thought...6 months ago during winter months, glad I didn't, and now still happy with not have OEM and the benefits of having and CAI/E85 tune combo.
     
  10. Mikthehun1

    Mikthehun1 Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of whether you dropped temps, the tape looks badass. Very space shuttle.
     
  11. ValidusTalon

    ValidusTalon Well-Known Member

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    While I don't have the same intake (have the GT350 intake from the PP2 kit) I was also concerned about the same. I didn't try the reflective tape (very NASA'esque btw!!), but after researching, looking at what other vendors offer that include lids, realized that opening the grill (as you've done) then making a lid for the airbox was the way to go. I've seen a few threads where folks have done it for the JLT intake, if anything like my situation it was *immediately* effective, dropped IAT's like a rock, yet let me retain my beloved PP2 setup....

    Just food for thought, I was about where @AnalogDan suggested, gonna abandon it 'til I found threads from @honeybadger and @NvrFinished and went that route... I suppose you could try it, just temporarily attach a piece of cardboard or something and see how it works for you...
     
  12. frank s

    frank s Well-Known Member

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    From time to time I'm dismayed by decisions made by the Mustang production teams—think hood struts; however, for the most part engineering makes what amount to the best overall compromises. People like us get to question that supposition, and try to shave the realities in a direction we are more likely to enjoy. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Difficulty is in deciding what constitutes "broke". If Ford Performance doesn't sense any need to offer a cooler-air intake, when there is money likely to be made whether or not it works better than stock, I'm going to go with Ford Performance.

    As for heating up in traffic you should try to imagine the common Sunday-evening scene along any crowded highway in the 1950s and erlier: more than a "special" car a mile sitting by the road, hood open, steam issuing from the radiator. Used to give me a certain amount of justification to be smug as I bumper-to-bumpered home from sports car races at Santa Barbara. passing those Deuce coupes, lead sled Mercuries, and Ferrari-level exotics in their moments of misery. Driving my 1949 Ford Tudor, flathead six with split manifold, one Smithy and one Belond muffler. Couldn't hurt it with a stick. Nowhere near the kind of tolerance for adverse conditions as found in new cars these days, but better than some, in those days.

    Where can you go from where you are? When I raced/autocrossed an MGB in the middle-late 1960s, the adjustment contributing to cooling while sitting still—as in waiting for the "Go" sign at the slaloms, as we called them then—was to loosen up the hinges at the rear if the engine hood, rasing that edge an inch or so, tightening the nuts and congratulating yourself on your smartness. No scientific measurements other than the water temp gauge that showed a little less inclination to rise up over the few minutes in line. The back-of-the-hood gap likely didn't do much on the road courses; in fact it might have been counter-productive, located as it was in a high-pressure area in front of the windscreen. Probably not much pressure there with short windscreens.

    So at this point it comes down to how much of your time is spent sitting still, and do you really care that much about a few degrees of IAT.
     
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  13. OP
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    pgonza2723

    pgonza2723 Well-Known Member

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    So on the first point...and it's only my opinion. Ford has many many many more parameters designing an vehicle's intake than for HP seeking. Durability, maintenance, cost, noise factors, different climates, etc etc etc. So while the OEM intake is not "broke" per se, that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement or power to be gained from replacing it.

    On your second point... For me personally, not a ton. This is my play car. My weekend toy. My weapon of choice for road course work. Do I drive it in traffic on occasion on hot Texas summer days? Yes I do. Do high IATs bother me? Not really, but boredom and the desire to tinker is very often what differentiates an enthusiast from the guy who thinks vehicles are an appliance.

    Since I did decided to tinker and IATs were the culprit I was looking to keep at bay, I wanted to give back to the community being I've seen plenty of posts complaining about IATs in open element CAI and was giving those that were struggling with this issue some ideas and feedback to help combat it.
     
  14. ChromaticGrey

    ChromaticGrey Well-Known Member

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    I certainly like the look of the gt 350 style intake tube over stock air box. If i end up getting one ill lokely try to find a way to secure a clear top on it and open up the grill holes. With the performance pack 2 came with a closed air raid style box as opposed to the open one.
     
  15. Mustang Tony

    Mustang Tony Well-Known Member

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    That was a hackleberry job on the grill. That would bother me...just sayin'.
     
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  16. Zrussian13

    Zrussian13 Well-Known Member

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    Plus those honeycombs serve a purpose. Removing a few ok but removing all probably wasn't the best idea. Now that you sealed the top of the box you can get rid of the heat tape everywhere. The lack of seal was your issue. I have the jlt plus e54r tune in phoenix. Once your box is in place and adjusted so it seals against the hood iats are fine. 111° yesterday and I was 2-5° above ambient when moving, even crawling thru traffic. I never rose above 125° when sitting at stops either.
     
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    pgonza2723

    pgonza2723 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if bad, but haven't seen any detrimental effects such as hood flutter, etc etc. Usually the closing off of grills from an OEM standpoint is done for decrease in drag which helps MPG standards. My observation was that was a good first step in introducing more air and at the very least helped with IATs. In regards to more power from it.... Undecided but doubtful, but more air movement can never hurt.

    Good info on top of.hox sealing. Did you do anything to adjust/help seal your box? Tape there to stay till adhesive dries out and comes off. Don't think it's hurting anything at this point.
     
  18. Schwerin

    Schwerin Well-Known Member

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    JLT design looks similar to the GT350/BULLITT in concept. I wonder if they do anything to help deal it better for IAT's.
     
  19. Zrussian13

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    No it stays in place on it's own. When I installed mine last winter I noticed my iats were Higher than I thought they should be so I adjusted the box to sit higher and seal better around the intake tube and hood. I just loosened the coupling at the tb and everything moved pretty easily. I thought it would work it's way back down over time but so far so good.
     
  20. Geo

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