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Socialism good or bad?

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Caballus

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When I have a monster breaking down my front door with the goal of killing my family and me, I'm no longer interested in the monster's motives, background, history, and mitigating facts.

This is what infuriates me about "intellectuals": they know everything... and nothing.

And, by the way, Christianity PERFECTLY accounts for human nature.
Women were burned at the stake in the name of Christianity. Humans misapply, misunderstand, and exploit...by nature.
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There has always been a monster at the door. As a life-long monster killer, I understand the importance of being smarter than the monsters rather than being afraid of them. The only way to defeat them and keep them at bay is to understand their motives, backgrounds, history. Sun Tzu got it right 2,000 years ago: If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
Pointless. The monster is at our throats because we didn't kill it back in the 50's when it began to infest our schools. No more time for strategic planning, Sun Tzu, Marx, Engels, or reaching across the aisle. It has to be killed now, not studied a while longer until we can meet Sun Tzu's standards.
 

Caballus

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Pointless. The monster is at our throats because we didn't kill it back in the 50's when it began to infest our schools. No more time for strategic planning, Sun Tzu, Marx, Engels, or reaching across the aisle. It has to be killed now, not studied a while longer until we can meet Sun Tzu's standards.
Ok.
 

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Women were burned at the stake in the name of Christianity. Humans misapply, misunderstand, and exploit...by nature.
Yes, I was reading about the Roman Catholics burning a woman at the stake just last week.

Please stay up there on your lofty, academic perch. The rest of us will fight the battle for you while you study.
 

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There has always been a monster at the door. As a life-long monster killer...
What monsters have you slain? And in what way?
 

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Caballus

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Yes, I was reading about the Roman Catholics burning a woman at the stake just last week.

Please stay up there on your lofty, academic perch. The rest of us will fight the battle for you while you study.
Academic perch...study...the rest will fight the battle? Lots of uninformed conclusions being drawn. Enjoy.
 

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Academic perch...study...the rest will fight the battle? Lots of uninformed conclusions being drawn. Enjoy.
Yes, you have a perfect grasp of theory and intentionally misunderstood BS. And that's about it. Unless you want to regale us with your "monster-killing" tales.
 

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Yes, you have a perfect grasp of theory and intentionally misunderstood BS. And that's about it. Unless you want to regale us with your "monster-killing" tales.
Interesting that you turn the debate into an emotional personal attack. If at some point you would like to have a respectful personal discussion, we can do so over skype (or some similar platform) and keep our personal business personal. Here, we can have a respectful public discussion--or none.
 

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Interesting that you turn the debate into an emotional personal attack. If at some point you would like to have a respectful personal discussion, we can do so over skype (or some similar platform) and keep our personal business personal. Here, we can have a respectful public discussion--or none.
None works for me. I don't have enough hours in the day to debate the merits vs the pitfalls of various political systems proven over and over to be deadly failures.
 

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Democratic Socialism, or at least better Social benefits, would be more viable if we could even get our tax code figured out and fix loopholes and instead of just "auditing" departments of Govt, we also made them trim fat to properly afford them within the taxes we already pay. I mean we found the DOD had helicopters, and planes, and trucks all unaccounted for and were wasting money to buy new ones when they didn't need them. Yet we STILL not only give them the budget they want, but MORE on top of that. I'm all for keeping us safe, but there is no need to not properly set budgets when it turned out they really wasted/overspent previously.SP

I also do not trust big business at all. The fact that we have ISP's, with horrible customer service and reliability that lock out other ISP's in towns and are allowed to fight against local towns trying to form their own ISP, is enough for me to have just as little faith in one side as the other.

One side the taxes go up, the other side the bills I pay go up. Either way I'm more poor.
 

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I disagree insofar as no system fully accounts for human nature--including organized religion. Capitalism, which I believe is the most equitable economic system, is corruptible without rules--how much regulation is the point to debate.

I disagree that we are not in an age where we can debate at the local coffee house. I think our failure to debate rationally and respectfully at the local coffeehouse is a failure on our part and contributes to the corruption of the system. Democracy is "by the people," which means, by definition, it requires personal involvement by the citizenry--from the coffeehouse to the courthouse to the ballot box.
The system that was supposed to account for the human nature of control and corruption was our Constitution. It is designed more as a document of what government can't do rather than can do. Unfortunately, a few of the lines have been misinterpreted such as the Common Good Clause and the part about the militia in the second amendment. Another unfortunate event is if the government really wants to do something they just ignore the document ,for example the Federal Reserve and Article I, section 8, Clause 5 of the Constitution. Or throwing some kid out of school when he brings his bible (or his Koran)which is definitley a violation of Amendment 1 of the Bill of Rights. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
The problem with meeting at the local coffee house (or pub), is that the ability, desire and willingness to debate in a non violent fashion is being indoctrinated out of our youth. For example
UC-Berkeley faces lawsuit over violent rioting at free-speech event
Berkeley is supposedly the birth place of free speech but apparently only if it follows certain liberal guidelines. You can't have a discussion if both sides won't calm down and discuss.
 

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Democratic Socialism, or at least better Social benefits, would be more viable if we could even get our tax code figured out and fix loopholes and instead of just "auditing" departments of Govt, we also made them trim fat to properly afford them within the taxes we already pay. I mean we found the DOD had helicopters, and planes, and trucks all unaccounted for and were wasting money to buy new ones when they didn't need them. Yet we STILL not only give them the budget they want, but MORE on top of that. I'm all for keeping us safe, but there is no need to not properly set budgets when it turned out they really wasted/overspent previously.SP

I also do not trust big business at all. The fact that we have ISP's, with horrible customer service and reliability that lock out other ISP's in towns and are allowed to fight against local towns trying to form their own ISP, is enough for me to have just as little faith in one side as the other.

One side the taxes go up, the other side the bills I pay go up. Either way I'm more poor.
The problem we have in government has always been a spending problem not a collections problem.
 

Schwerin

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The problem we have in government has always been a spending problem not a collections problem.
I'd say it's both. To many loop holes for business to skirt paying what they should. Sadly the people that are also in charge of closing those loopholes also get kickbacks. A US business should not be allowed to figure ways to pay less federal tax than a US family.
 

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I'd say it's both. To many loop holes for business to skirt paying what they should. Sadly the people that are also in charge of closing those loopholes also get kickbacks. A US business should not be allowed to figure ways to pay less federal tax than a US family.
Businesses will always find a way to pay less in taxes, if they pay more here, they will move somewhere else. Lets keep businesses in the business of producing goods and services and employing people. Our economy survives on people having jobs and spending that money on goods and services, that generates tax revenues for the government. In order for there to be jobs, we have to have business and manufacturing in this country.
 

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The system that was supposed to account for the human nature of control and corruption was our Constitution. It is designed more as a document of what government can't do rather than can do. Unfortunately, a few of the lines have been misinterpreted such as the Common Good Clause and the part about the militia in the second amendment. Another unfortunate event is if the government really wants to do something they just ignore the document ,for example the Federal Reserve and Article I, section 8, Clause 5 of the Constitution. Or throwing some kid out of school when he brings his bible (or his Koran)which is definitley a violation of Amendment 1 of the Bill of Rights. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
The problem with meeting at the local coffee house (or pub), is that the ability, desire and willingness to debate in a non violent fashion is being indoctrinated out of our youth. For example
UC-Berkeley faces lawsuit over violent rioting at free-speech event
Berkeley is supposedly the birth place of free speech but apparently only if it follows certain liberal guidelines. You can't have a discussion if both sides won't calm down and discuss.
I find it funny you pick that headline but not the guy who ran a car into a crowd in Charlottesville. It's not like violence isn't on both sides, and it's not a "indoctrinated out of your Youth" thing, or are you forgetting the race issues in the 50's 60's and 70's? Hell in the 20's it was so bad the Tulsa Police actually fire bombed a black neighborhood because they tried to prevent a lynching. Violence isn't new, the problem is that in at least in the 60's There were people like MLK and the Kennedy's that were specifically calling for peaceful protests. Today we have a president actively acting like violence is okay to turn an eye to with snide, off the cuff comments, then acts like he has no idea why violence would happen.

Black Panthers were a great example. They used to be all about peaceful protest, but being aware that a fight COULD break out and you may have to defend yourself. Once their leaders were either arrested or taken away it was up to the youth to lead and they were more forceful, which gave them the reputation they have for fights and aggression. They had the rhetoric and maybe charisma, but none of the ability to plan ahead like the older leaders that had more experience who were no longer there.

Our leaders, on both sides, use to be more respectable, now they act like they are trying to be "cool to the young voters". Today it's all about TV and viewership, and social media.
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