Socialism good or bad?

[Grintch]

After Bernie Sanders almost won the Democratic nomination in 2016, a lot more 2020 Democratic presidential candidates are either offering socialist plans or are actually calling themselves socialists.

Supposedly, socialism is well regarded by the younger demographics.

A couple of quick facts to compare Socialism to Capitalism, looking at the Superpowers of each.

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[Grintch]

GDP per capita (~standard of living) - 2012 data

US - $ 51,700
Russia - $ 17,500
China - $ 9,100

I can't find any good source for immigration numbers across all 3 countries. But the common perception seem to be there are a LOT more people from socialist countries (Russia, China, et al) trying to get into the US (both legally, and illegally), than there are Americans immigrating to China & Russia. There is a fair bit of business related relocations, but not much I want to become a citizen and quit my evil (high paying) Capitalist job & life.

 

[Grintch]

Sill confused about which system is better?

 

[Fuse]

I thought they were running as democratic socialist? I'm sure some of them are more towards socialism. But I'm pretty sure they are running as democratic socialism which apparently is different from plain socialism. They seem to me as a hybrid of the two from my light reading of their ideals.

 

[Grintch]

I don't care if they call themselves Unicorn Socialists. Socialism is a recipe for a poorer, less free America. History has proven it doesn't work well.

Another interesting data point, given size, location, demographics, and cultural similarities.

South Korea (Capitalist) - $31,900
North Korea (Socialist) - $ 1,800

 

[BurnCycle]

The thing I really can't understand is why the democratic party wants to be associated so closely the idea of socialism (like those who refer to themselves as democratic socialists). The two do NOT go hand in hand but the fear mongering that is going on these days will have you believe that every democrat is a socialist and that has about as much weight as every republican being a fascist. A fair amount of the rest of the civilized world welcomes socialized government programs (healthcare) but are not Socialist nations (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK and many other eastern European nations).

No one in their right mind should want to be under a Socialist rule. History has proven it doesn't work. But no one should want to live in a fascist world either.

 

[Hadelson]

My experience from a visual stand-point. Visiting East Berlin passing through Check Point Charlie. West Berlin was a thriving City and going to East Berlin was just like going from Technicolor to a black and white photo. First hand saw the food lines and people living under a failed system.

V/R

 

[Anthony 05 GT]

It's a no brainer. Capitalism will always be imperfect, but substantially more boats will float under it especially if you learn a skill and work your ass off. My father has a 10th grade education and is worth millions because he learned a skill, worked his ass off and never cheated a single customer. He is the best at what he does still at 72 years old and rarely takes a vacation. He came from a poor family, 4 kids in a 2 bedroom house, parents that didn't care too much about them.

Socialism is a system that is always doomed to failure because it takes the incentive away from hard working people to create wealth. My old man would never have built his business if the government was going to suck all his profits up. Communism is just socialism, only quicker and more forceful. It sucks the life out of people and creates misery.

 

[Martinnfb]

Is that even a serious question?

 

[2016Gruv]

Many young adults have been indoctrinated by academia and mainstream media into the idea that Socialism is good, Capitalism is bad. The odd thing is, Capitalism is an economic system whereas Socialism is primarily a political system with detrimental economic implications. Look at Venezuela! This topic is not new, though. The same arguments were made in 1930s Germany that had the Communist party putting forth the false narrative that Capitalism was synonymous with Fascism. The reality is that Communism and Fascism and, yes, Socialism are cut from the same political cloth, with few differences. All are a form of statism, putting the state above the individual (man is slave to the state). Since the state knows best, it also makes the decisions. This is precisely how individual rights are taken away. Communism, Socialism and Fascism are all products of the political left.

The USA has fought against Socialism and its various forms for decades to free people of oppression and restore their rights to freedom. Even a cursory search of history shows that Socialism never works. For anyone who objects on the basis that some countries (like the USA) have social programs, bear in mind that social programs are not Socialism. Community services are also not elements of Socialism.

As for neo-Democrats, pandering to a potentially large voter base is nothing new, which is why, in my opinion, so many of them are jumping on the "Democratic Socialist" bandwagon. Anything for a vote. Open boarders is about acquiring a new and potentially large voting bloc in the same way that President Johnson recognized by signing the Civil Rights Act he would gain the black vote despite the fact that most Democratic members of Congress opposed it. It's sad to think that politicians are willing to sell out their country for votes.

 

[CAL Captain]

I don't care if they call themselves Unicorn Socialists. Socialism is a recipe for a poorer, less free America. History has proven it doesn't work well.

Another interesting data point, given size, location, demographics, and cultural similarities.

South Korea (Capitalist) - $31,900
North Korea (Socialist) - $ 1,800

Or the famous night shots of the Korean Peninsula from space: virtually the entire country of South Korea is brightly lit while the north is almost completely dark.

I don’t care what this evil chooses to call itself; the goal remains the same everywhere: submission and subjugation.

 

[Interceptor]

Socialism demands
Capitalism gives opportunity

Socialism is Communism
Capitalism is freedom

Why do the news report that everyone wants socialism? The answer...
"One World Government"

Government leaders have been planning on this for years, mentioning it occasionally with news reports that give you are warm fuzzy feeling. Democrates and Republicans.

Now why do you think that is, could it be ultimate power and riches?

 

[19S550PP2]

Good.

 

[ctandc72]

The "idea" of Socialism is what normally draw people in, especially younger people. The problem is that governments are run by human beings. That means no matter the location, when you live under a political system that puts the needs of "the many" as the primary concern and that government is run by human beings - you will end up with a huge gap between those in the government, those close to government officials - and everyone else.

When the common person realizes that it doesn't matter how hard he or she works - they will be treated and receive the same rewards as the person who does the minimum amount required - the entire system falls over. Why bust your butt for the same pay as someone who slacks off? Why work at all when the government tells you they will provide your food, shelter etc?

The inevitable end of this type of political system is failure. As more people receive more benefits and compensation from the government, the source of funds for these benefits (taxes) dries up as the working people generating this money leaves or joins the throngs of those on the government's dime.

Politicians like Bernie and others throw out the "Democratic Socialist" label to attract young voters. I guarantee you there is a campaign adviser looking at polls and data who is driving these phrases being uttered by their candidates.

 

[Jetnoise]

Would bankruptcy be considered a pro socialism event?
Or a government bail out
Or corporate execs driving a company into the ground with poor & greed driven decisions leaving your bank account dry?

There needs to be a balance and accountability.
Like most things it's not so black and white.

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