Side by Side header test, same car same day! SW & ARH!

[anotherneon]

Seems like ARH has a lot of R&D into their products which is why I went with them...

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[jayman33]

Seems like ARH has a lot of R&D into their products which is why I went with them...

There is no doubt about that

 

[Blk2015GT]

Exactly why I back them so much, and I don't even have the system in my hands yet! (should be this week).

They know their stuff and will explain everything you ask and build you whatever you need to get the job done. You would never see the above from Borla, Magnaflow, Flowmaster, etc.- the typical big brand names.

I had Ford Racing (Borla Stingers as they used to be the same mufflers FR and Borla) axelbacks on my S197, and they sounded great - until a muffler hanger weld broke leaving a hold in the piping. Ford Racing offers a warranty on mufflers, yeh if you buy them from Shelby or a Ford dealdership (at MSRP). Anywhere else you're out of luck; explain that one how that makes a difference where you buy it new. Of course I bought them online, I think from American Muscle or some online shop like that with a discounted price; same as most purchasers do and don't buy at the dealership. What they don't tell you is you have no warranty from FR and they won't honor it.

No one wanted to warranty replace it- not FR or Borla despite it only being under the 3yr/36,000 mile warranty- when the he weld where the hanger was attached to the muffler clearly broke which is a warranty defect- a huge weld shouldn't break from normal driving (never raced a daily driver car). It would've cost me less to go local to get it fixed than my time dealing with the big names trying to get warranty service honestly, but poor poor CS from the big names.

I assume the same still applies to the FRRP Sport/Touring systems as that is the current rules on FR's site as I speak, so I would avoid those systems like a plague personally. Got one from Beef or AM or somewhere? No warranty from FR, sorry, and I don't think people know that as they are ridiculous terms- a new system is a new system that deserves a warranty. Borla stamped systems carry a lifetime warranty but idk how they are to deal with.

I'd rather deal with the guys at ARH and they seem to actually care about their customers.

 

[beefcake]

Exactly why I back them so much, and I don't even have the system in my hands yet! (should be this week).

They know their stuff and will explain everything you ask and build you whatever you need to get the job done. You would never see the above from Borla, Magnaflow, Flowmaster, etc.- the typical big brand names.

I had Ford Racing (Borla Stingers as they used to be the same mufflers FR and Borla) axelbacks on my S197, and they sounded great - until a muffler hanger weld broke leaving a hold in the piping. Ford Racing offers a warranty on mufflers, yeh if you buy them from Shelby or a Ford dealdership (at MSRP). Anywhere else you're out of luck; explain that one how that makes a difference where you buy it new. Of course I bought them online, I think from American Muscle or some online shop like that with a discounted price; same as most purchasers do and don't buy at the dealership. What they don't tell you is you have no warranty from FR and they won't honor it.

No one wanted to warranty replace it- not FR or Borla despite it only being under the 3yr/36,000 mile warranty- when the he weld where the hanger was attached to the muffler clearly broke which is a warranty defect- a huge weld shouldn't break from normal driving (never raced a daily driver car). It would've cost me less to go local to get it fixed than my time dealing with the big names trying to get warranty service honestly, but poor poor CS from the big names.

I assume the same still applies to the FRRP Sport/Touring systems as that is the current rules on FR's site as I speak, so I would avoid those systems like a plague personally. Got one from Beef or AM or somewhere? No warranty from FR, sorry, and I don't think people know that as they are ridiculous terms- a new system is a new system that deserves a warranty. Borla stamped systems carry a lifetime warranty but idk how they are to deal with.

I'd rather deal with the guys at ARH and they seem to actually care about their customers.

Nick and Mike and the guys there definitely do!!!

Your going to love the catback, make sure to post pics!

 

[ronnies_mustang_5o]

There is no doubt about that

Yes and no...do they not use the exact system they used on the S197, just like SW? Not trying to be a SW fanboy here, but I'm just trying to understand why someone would throw away $600 more on a system that won't make any more power. At the end of the day, we all just wanna make more power. HP/$ ratio is what I care about, but at the same time I wouldn't buy subpar quality or something made with cheap materials.

 

[IzVenomous]

I went with kooks mainly because they are made in my state so I like helping locals out, but man ARH seems like a top notch company! stayed away from sw mainly bc of the way they did this froum.

 

[jayman33]

Yes and no...do they not use the exact system they used on the S197, just like SW? Not trying to be a SW fanboy here, but I'm just trying to understand why someone would throw away $600 more on a system that won't make any more power. At the end of the day, we all just wanna make more power. HP/$ ratio is what I care about, but at the same time I wouldn't buy subpar quality or something made with cheap materials.

If HP is important to you we still haven't found another system that has made more power than ours. I get it, different days, temps, we could go on and on. I have no problem asking Pro Dyno to run 12 different cars with different setups to see if they're able to make what we did at SAE.

Don't get me wrong, we wholeheartedly support SW.

There is no denying the R&D that is backed by ARH, ALL Cobra Jet Mustangs, ACR-X program, COPO Camaro program and more. This alone speaks volumes.

Like I said, we offer SW, Kooks, and more but we choose ARH on our car for a reason.

Nick and Steve have been awesome to work with, they're always a phone call away.

 

[Farmundeh]

If HP is important to you we still haven't found another system that has made more power than ours. I get it, different days, temps, we could go on and on. I have no problem asking Pro Dyno to run 12 different cars with different setups to see if they're able to make what we did at SAE.

Don't get me wrong, we wholeheartedly support SW.

There is no denying the R&D that is backed by ARH, ALL Cobra Jet Mustangs, ACR-X program, COPO Camaro program and more. This alone speaks volumes.

Like I said, we offer SW, Kooks, and more but we choose ARH on our car for a reason.

Nick and Steve have been awesome to work with, they're always a phone call away.

Jay - was there any particular reason you guys went with the x-pipe instead of the H? apologies if you've already addressed this elsewhere.

 

[jayman33]

Jay - was there any particular reason you guys went with the x-pipe instead of the H? apologies if you've already addressed this elsewhere.

No real reason, my philosophy... its modding a car. If I don't like it I'll get the other one. lol

We may try the H pipe down the road but honestly, the X pipe sounds awesome.

 

[Blk2015GT]

Yes and no...do they not use the exact system they used on the S197, just like SW? Not trying to be a SW fanboy here, but I'm just trying to understand why someone would throw away $600 more on a system that won't make any more power. At the end of the day, we all just wanna make more power. HP/$ ratio is what I care about, but at the same time I wouldn't buy subpar quality or something made with cheap materials.

You're still asking the same question. Again, with the same exact specs, are you going to pay for a Lenovo/IBM computer (or major name with good support and repair) or hundreds less for a Fujitsu (still a major name but not known for its support or repair) just to save some money?

Choose whatever you want that's why there are choices and different priced items, but you get what you pay for in long term quality and support. There is a reason the same performing product can be sold cheaper than others.

 

[stoli]

If HP is important to you we still haven't found another system that has made more power than ours. I get it, different days, temps, we could go on and on. I have no problem asking Pro Dyno to run 12 different cars with different setups to see if they're able to make what we did at SAE.

I'd like to see you just switch canned tunes and see what the differences are. I strongly suspect that is where the difference is and not between SW vs ARH.


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[B-52 Jetman]

Great job and thanks for the comparison! Not a significant HP difference but there's a pretty good difference in TQ!

 

[beefcake]

Great job and thanks for the comparison! Not a significant HP difference but there's a pretty good difference in TQ!

torque was about equal on both runs as well, the top 2 torque graphs are one of each brand

both had a run where we got the converter to lock at the beginning, then we a run where the arh locked a little later, and one where it locked a lot later

 

[beefcake]

If HP is important to you we still haven't found another system that has made more power than ours. I get it, different days, temps, we could go on and on. I have no problem asking Pro Dyno to run 12 different cars with different setups to see if they're able to make what we did at SAE.

Don't get me wrong, we wholeheartedly support SW.

We don't race dyno's when it comes to comparing cars.

That is the point of controlled "in house testing", we dyno, we install, we redyno, same car, same day within 4 hours of each other. And we verify with the logs on the same car.

I support all the brands as well, I wish we had time to do the kooks the same day, and at some point I hope we do.

I appreciate mfg's and even owners like Nick coming to chime in as well. Until he pointed out the tubes didn't have welds, me nor the other 2 guys in the shop didn't even notice it. It's funny how some things get past you. I appreciate seeing the support in the community, and I do think other mfgs could step up their game in that regard. People like to see the support out there. I firmly believe there is value in that support. I really appreciate Nick working to protect the integrity of the line!! Same price, same vendor, no matter where you go! That means a lot!

I make myself available to my customers 8 to 10pm seven days a week for tech help. I know when it comes to customers being able to reach out, to get an answer on the phone means a lot!

Like I said, we support all the brands as well. That said, the statement to compare 12 different cars for a "number" is silly. The only way to compare them is to do it controlled like we did. Take 12 stock cars, your going to see 12 different numbers more than likely. You think taking a different car or 12 different cars and comparing them is a more valid than testing the same car, same day, within 4 hours, with verified logging is more accurate?? LOL

Once you guys have a facility and start doing things in house with your own dyno and have someone to tune for you and everything is controlled, and you do an actual test, vs throwing your car on someones dyno, it really doesn't mean much.

To simply say "compare our dyno numbers to another car is just "silly". The Lund manual car is running the ARH headers and JLT and made 10hp or so less than what your car made on the dyno, same mods. That doesn't mean you get to the track that the Lund car runs quicker and traps higher with the same mods as you. Every car, every dyno, every day is different. We dyno'd our car last month in what seemed to be identical conditions 2 days apart. The car consistently made 7hp less across the board...

This thread wasn't designed to be a pissing match. It was to do an honest comparison , side by side, look at what we saw to be nice about each system, and give our feed back. I think we did that.

As I said earlier, we have many competitive cars in our Race Team. This year we will have 3 coyote stock, 1 factory stock, 1 super stang, and 1 coyote modified.

We will have a mix of everyone of the major 3 on the cars. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. It's just like the supercharger debate. Which is better, depends on your application and what your trying to do.

Power wise, we made similar power on the systems in a very controlled test. IMO, I can feel comfortable selling each brand and sleep good at night about doing it. We wanted to do a nice comparison and we want to sell products to our customers that we are confident in. I have always been confident in all three of the USA made brands.

If you buy the SW or the ARH, you are putting money in hard working USA based companies that believe in their products. Just as some of us vendors have a friendly rivalry, so do a lot of the mfg's.

I think both systems offer a great value, and you should buy whichever one you want, based on your goals.

We will be doing the same test again, with the blower on the car as well, to see if one brand shines over another once it comes to forced induction!

As the ARH is on the car now, we will start with them, and then work our way backwards! I personally love doing stuff like this as it really is the fun part of what we do.

I thought I'd add a screen shot of the dyno at peak hp from each car as well. I don't think it gets closer than that.

 

[B-52 Jetman]

torque was about equal on both runs as well, the top 2 torque graphs are one of each brand

both had a run where we got the converter to lock at the beginning, then we a run where the arh locked a little later, and one where it locked a lot later

Yeah, my oooops....looked at the wrong numbers.

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