Sponsored

Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

sk47

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Threads
28
Messages
5,068
Reaction score
2,420
Location
North Eastern TN
First Name
Jeff
Vehicle(s)
Chevy Silverado & Nissan Sentra SE
Cleveland Clinic: No need to vaccinate people who had COVID (wnd.com)

“Contradicting the claims of Dr. Anthony Fauci and the FDA, a study by the prestigious Cleveland Clinic concluded there is no need to vaccinate people who have been infected with the virus that causes COVID-19.”

“The finding aligned with a study published last month in Nature by researchers at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis concluding that even mild or asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 can produce lasting immunity that would guard against repeated infections.”

“But the Cleveland Clinic study found no significant difference in COVID-19 incidence between previously infected and vaccinated participants.”

“Not a single incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection was observed in previously infected participants with or without vaccination.”

“The Cleveland study monitored 52,238 employees of the clinic who each received two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine at an interval of 28 days. Among them, 5% had previous SARS-CoV-2 infection.”

“News-Medical.Net summed up the implications of the study.”"A practical and useful message would be to consider symptomatic COVID-19 to be as good as having received a vaccine, and that people who have had COVID-19 confirmed by a reliable laboratory test do not need the vaccine," the news site said.”

“That's also the conclusion of Yale University epidemiologist Dr. Harvey Risch.”
“He pointed WND to a massive study in Israel finding that people who had tested positive for the novel coronavirus in the previous three or more months had at least as much protection against new infection, hospitalization and death as vaccinated people.”
“"People become immune by surviving infection," argued Risch, professor of epidemiology in the Department of Epidemiology and Public Health at the Yale School of Public Health and Yale School of Medicine.”
“In an email to WND, he explained that serum antibodies and T-cell antibodies – the white blood cells that attack infections – demonstrate past history of infection.”
“Risch said the FDA is correct that antibodies from infection are not the same as post-vaccination antibodies. But this is irrelevant, he contended.”

Dr. Marty Makary, a professor at Johns Hopkins University, believes that both immunity through vaccination and through infection are probably "life-long" and can be maintained without boosters.”
“"There is more data on natural immunity than there is on vaccinated immunity, because natural immunity has been around longer," Makary said in a recent interview with radio WMAL in Washington, D.C. "We are not seeing reinfections, and when they do happen, they’re rare. Their symptoms are mild or are asymptomatic."”

Good news: Mild COVID-19 induces lasting antibody protection – Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis (wustl.edu)

“Months after recovering from mild cases of COVID-19, people still have immune cells in their body pumping out antibodies against the virus that causes COVID-19, according to a study from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. Such cells could persist for a lifetime, churning out antibodies all the while.”

“The findings, published May 24 in the journal Nature, suggest that mild cases of COVID-19 leave those infected with lasting antibody protection and that repeated bouts of illness are likely to be uncommon.”

“Last fall, there were reports that antibodies wane quickly after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, and mainstream media interpreted that to mean that immunity was not long-lived,” said senior author Ali Ellebedy, PhD, an associate professor of pathology & immunology, of medicine and of molecular microbiology. “But that’s a misinterpretation of the data. It’s normal for antibody levels to go down after acute infection, but they don’t go down to zero; they plateau. Here, we found antibody-producing cells in people 11 months after first symptoms. These cells will live and produce antibodies for the rest of people’s lives. That’s strong evidence for long-lasting immunity.”

“As expected, antibody levels in the blood of the COVID-19 participants dropped quickly in the first few months after infection and then mostly leveled off, with some antibodies detectable even 11 months after infection. Further, 15 of the 19 bone marrow samples from people who had had COVID-19 contained antibody-producing cells specifically targeting the virus that causes COVID-19. Such cells could still be found four months later in the five people who came back to provide a second bone-marrow sample. None of the 11 people who had never had COVID-19 had such antibody-producing cells in their bone marrow.”

Israeli study: Natural immunity gives better protection than COVID shot - Israel National News

“Natural immunity that develops after SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably better protection against the "Delta variant" than does two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, an Israeli study found.”

“According to Science Magazine, the study found that "never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus."”
Sponsored

 

K4fxd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Threads
104
Messages
10,555
Reaction score
8,773
Location
NKY
First Name
Dan
Vehicle(s)
2017 gt, 2002 FXDWG, 2008 C6,
“Natural immunity that develops after SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably better protection against the "Delta variant" than does two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, an Israeli study found.”
“According to Science Magazine, the study found that "never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus."”
I thought both were worth repeating.

Follow the science, right?
 

GT Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2015
Threads
77
Messages
9,234
Reaction score
4,267
Location
Pacific NW
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Premium, Black w/Saddle, 19s, NAV
I thought both were worth repeating.

Follow the science, right?
The Israel studies also says that people who have already had Covid are even better protected and should still get a booster shot.

Oooop, guess that just made you disregard the Israel study and recommendations.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...vaccine-protected-like-three-doses-1.10195989

" Israeli Study: Recovered COVID Patients With One Vaccine Have Protection Similar to Three Doses

As a result of the study conducted by Israel’s Gertner Institute, the Health Ministry is recommending that patients who have recovered from the virus receive only one dose of the vaccine. "
 
Last edited:

K4fxd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Threads
104
Messages
10,555
Reaction score
8,773
Location
NKY
First Name
Dan
Vehicle(s)
2017 gt, 2002 FXDWG, 2008 C6,
Oooop, guess that just made you disregard the Israel study and recommendations.
Not at all.
The shots for naturally immune are a follow the money deal.
 

GT Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2015
Threads
77
Messages
9,234
Reaction score
4,267
Location
Pacific NW
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Premium, Black w/Saddle, 19s, NAV
Cleveland Clinic: No need to vaccinate people who had COVID (wnd.com)

“Contradicting the claims of Dr. Anthony Fauci and the FDA, a study by the prestigious Cleveland Clinic concluded there is no need to vaccinate people who have been infected with the virus that causes COVID-19.”

“The finding aligned with a study published last month in Nature by researchers at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis concluding that even mild or asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 can produce lasting immunity that would guard against repeated infections.”

“But the Cleveland Clinic study found no significant difference in COVID-19 incidence between previously infected and vaccinated participants.”

“Not a single incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection was observed in previously infected participants with or without vaccination.”

“The Cleveland study monitored 52,238 employees of the clinic who each received two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine at an interval of 28 days. Among them, 5% had previous SARS-CoV-2 infection.”

“News-Medical.Net summed up the implications of the study.”"A practical and useful message would be to consider symptomatic COVID-19 to be as good as having received a vaccine, and that people who have had COVID-19 confirmed by a reliable laboratory test do not need the vaccine," the news site said.”

“That's also the conclusion of Yale University epidemiologist Dr. Harvey Risch.”
“He pointed WND to a massive study in Israel finding that people who had tested positive for the novel coronavirus in the previous three or more months had at least as much protection against new infection, hospitalization and death as vaccinated people.”
“"People become immune by surviving infection," argued Risch, professor of epidemiology in the Department of Epidemiology and Public Health at the Yale School of Public Health and Yale School of Medicine.”
“In an email to WND, he explained that serum antibodies and T-cell antibodies – the white blood cells that attack infections – demonstrate past history of infection.”
“Risch said the FDA is correct that antibodies from infection are not the same as post-vaccination antibodies. But this is irrelevant, he contended.”

Dr. Marty Makary, a professor at Johns Hopkins University, believes that both immunity through vaccination and through infection are probably "life-long" and can be maintained without boosters.”
“"There is more data on natural immunity than there is on vaccinated immunity, because natural immunity has been around longer," Makary said in a recent interview with radio WMAL in Washington, D.C. "We are not seeing reinfections, and when they do happen, they’re rare. Their symptoms are mild or are asymptomatic."”

Good news: Mild COVID-19 induces lasting antibody protection – Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis (wustl.edu)

“Months after recovering from mild cases of COVID-19, people still have immune cells in their body pumping out antibodies against the virus that causes COVID-19, according to a study from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. Such cells could persist for a lifetime, churning out antibodies all the while.”

“The findings, published May 24 in the journal Nature, suggest that mild cases of COVID-19 leave those infected with lasting antibody protection and that repeated bouts of illness are likely to be uncommon.”

“Last fall, there were reports that antibodies wane quickly after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, and mainstream media interpreted that to mean that immunity was not long-lived,” said senior author Ali Ellebedy, PhD, an associate professor of pathology & immunology, of medicine and of molecular microbiology. “But that’s a misinterpretation of the data. It’s normal for antibody levels to go down after acute infection, but they don’t go down to zero; they plateau. Here, we found antibody-producing cells in people 11 months after first symptoms. These cells will live and produce antibodies for the rest of people’s lives. That’s strong evidence for long-lasting immunity.”

“As expected, antibody levels in the blood of the COVID-19 participants dropped quickly in the first few months after infection and then mostly leveled off, with some antibodies detectable even 11 months after infection. Further, 15 of the 19 bone marrow samples from people who had had COVID-19 contained antibody-producing cells specifically targeting the virus that causes COVID-19. Such cells could still be found four months later in the five people who came back to provide a second bone-marrow sample. None of the 11 people who had never had COVID-19 had such antibody-producing cells in their bone marrow.”

Israeli study: Natural immunity gives better protection than COVID shot - Israel National News

“Natural immunity that develops after SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably better protection against the "Delta variant" than does two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, an Israeli study found.”

“According to Science Magazine, the study found that "never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus."”
So what's your bottom line recommendation based on this informatioin?
 

Sponsored

K4fxd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Threads
104
Messages
10,555
Reaction score
8,773
Location
NKY
First Name
Dan
Vehicle(s)
2017 gt, 2002 FXDWG, 2008 C6,
If you don't then it's "follow the money". Ok
Shots for people who have recovered are not needed. That is now a proven fact. The science also shows people who have recovered are better protected against the delta variant than people who have been jabbed and have not recovered from covid.

So there is really no reason to push for recovered people to get jabbed, even if they are slightly better protected.

So there are a few reasons why they are being pushed.
Money
power
conformity.

You pick the reason you think fits best.

“But the Cleveland Clinic study found no significant difference in COVID-19 incidence between previously infected and vaccinated participants.”
 

GT Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2015
Threads
77
Messages
9,234
Reaction score
4,267
Location
Pacific NW
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Premium, Black w/Saddle, 19s, NAV
Shots for people who have recovered are not needed. That is now a proven fact. The science also shows people who have recovered are better protected against the delta variant than people who have been jabbed and have not recovered from covid.

So there is really no reason to push for recovered people to get jabbed, even if they are slightly better protected.

So there are a few reasons why they are being pushed.
Money
power
conformity.

You pick the reason you think fits best.
Point is, you and sk47 latch-on to only the parts of the beloved Israel studies that you want to. Even if they say that they recommenced people who have had Covid and recovered get a booster shot for increased immunity, you disregard that part and just continue to believe you're bullet proof. It's what a typical anti-vaxxer who doesn't believe in science will do.
 

K4fxd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Threads
104
Messages
10,555
Reaction score
8,773
Location
NKY
First Name
Dan
Vehicle(s)
2017 gt, 2002 FXDWG, 2008 C6,
Point is, you and sk47 latch-on to only the parts of the beloved Israel studies that you want to.
More than just one study

Israeli study,
Cleveland clinic study
Washington university school of medicine study
Yale University epidemiologist Dr. Harvey Risch
Yale School of Medicine.

just continue to believe you're bullet proof
Never said I was bullet proof, where do you come up with this?

Oh I get it since YOU got jabbed everyone else has to too. I mean that's only fair, right?
 

GT Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2015
Threads
77
Messages
9,234
Reaction score
4,267
Location
Pacific NW
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Premium, Black w/Saddle, 19s, NAV
More than just one study

Israeli study,
Cleveland clinic study
Washington university school of medicine study
Yale University epidemiologist Dr. Harvey Risch
Yale School of Medicine.

Never said I was bullet proof, where do you come up with this?

Oh I get it since YOU got jabbed everyone else has to too. I mean that's only fair, right?
And those studies most likely also say what the Israel studies says about recommending a booster to people who have recovered from Covid.

Since you disregard that recommendation and believe it's not needed or true, then you have this "bullet proof" mentality. Do you think you can never get Covid again, especially a nastier variant? Oh I know, you'd rather get it again and take your chances instead of getting jabbed ... hence an anti-vaxxer mentality regardless of the science. Yes, the science is dead to anti-vaxxers when the science points to the benefits.

Oh, I forgot ... the booster shot isn't based on science, it's only a "money grab" scheme. 😄
 
Last edited:

Sponsored

RPDBlueMoon

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2020
Threads
15
Messages
1,240
Reaction score
1,318
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
GT350 Heritage Edition, Civic Type R
When I first researched covid virus size it came up as .01 or some thing, I don't remember but it was 100 times smaller than what the N95 mask can stop.
measurements of the particle filtration efficiency of N95 masks show that they are capable of filtering ≈99.8% of particles with a diameter of ≈0.1 μm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7224694/#__ffn_sectitle

Dated April 2020.

That's actually a citation from a previous experiment done in 2017.

So you remembered wrong? 🤔
 
Last edited:

sk47

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Threads
28
Messages
5,068
Reaction score
2,420
Location
North Eastern TN
First Name
Jeff
Vehicle(s)
Chevy Silverado & Nissan Sentra SE
More than just one study

Israeli study,
Cleveland clinic study
Washington university school of medicine study
Yale University epidemiologist Dr. Harvey Risch
Yale School of Medicine.


Never said I was bullet proof, where do you come up with this?

Oh I get it since YOU got jabbed everyone else has to too. I mean that's only fair, right?
Hello; I see a few things. First is that you pick up on the links I posted with a favorable response and get jumped on for such. I included more than one link to show there is a growing body of evidence to support natural immunity. That natural immunity needs to be supported after all the medical science study over many decades is perhaps the more interesting point.

I posted links a while back after doing some digging into how the mRNA actually work. I was not up to date on the details so needed additional information. As with nearly all science, new stuff is built upon the work of others. So I did understand enough from my dated knowledge to follow much of the new stuff. I posted some comments not too long ago, but will summarize. The mRNA shots consist of tailored instructions very similar to the normal instructions each of our body cells use to make things the body needs. The cell nucleus has all the instructions in the DNA. That DNA creates it's own mRNA when the body needs a particular item made, often a protein.
The mRNA is just a small snippet of all the information in the DNA. The mRNA (memory RNA) is just instructions.
The shot mRNA is a version created in a lab with the instructions to make something very close to the spikes of protein that cover the current, at the time, covid19 virus. Very close but with some man included enhancements. Of those enhancements two stood out to me. One is that the instructions are tweaked so that a cell makes many more copies of the virus protein than a cell would normally make. It seems the codons at the end of a normal mRNA sequence which stop production are modified for this.

All those large numbers of copies of virus spike protein get out of the cell and trigger an immune response because the spike copies are considered invaders. After two shots the bodies immune reaction is to do several things, one of which is to make antibodies specific to attack (attach to) the spike copies themselves. Also if you happen to get infected with the actual virus the antibodies will attack( attach) to the real virus. Here is the main point. It is the natural immune system of the body which actually makes the antibodies and all other aspects of the vaccine immune reaction, not the shots.
Thing is that is just what the body does on it's own in a person who survives an infection naturally. Both natural immunity and shot immunity come from the actions of the person's own body.


There is a difference of opinion among medical scientist/researchers about what is more important with regard to immunity. Some think the total number of antibodies counts more while others think the overall immune reaction of the body counts more. Since the vaccines seem to cause a greater number of antibodies early on it is picked by those who support the vaccines. ( posted two links which discuss this a while back)
Other scientists/ researchers favor looking at the overall immune reaction over just antibody numbers. Here is the important bit about antibodies.
In both vaccine and natural immune reactions the number of antibodies will wane over time. This is the normal way. However the immune system maintains a base level of antibodies and can make more antibodies as needed. So is seems the only advantage of a vaccine shot for the naturally immune is to boost the antibody numbers for a while. If you happen to be in the camp which thinks antibody numbers are the better metric, then that is a reason to suggest the naturally immune also need get a shot. Thing is the naturally immune will be protected anyway even without the shot.
Of the several links I posted on natural immunity the one thing picked out to come back at on in this thread was the one which said this. After saying those with natural immunity are already as good to go and maybe better off than those with shots, they went on to say the naturally immune could be boosted with one shot. Translation = more antibody numbers from a shot.
I do not know the why the bit about a booster shot was added in the report. Could it be a money thing? I do not have the inside information. It does not make sense on the surface of it.
 
Last edited:

sk47

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Threads
28
Messages
5,068
Reaction score
2,420
Location
North Eastern TN
First Name
Jeff
Vehicle(s)
Chevy Silverado & Nissan Sentra SE
Hello; I see a few things. First is that you pick up on the links I posted with a favorable response and get jumped on for such. I included more than one link to show there is a growing body of evidence to support natural immunity. That natural immunity needs to be supported after all the medical science study over many decades is perhaps the more interesting point.

I posted links a while back after doing some digging into how the mRNA actually work. I was not up to date on the details so needed additional information. As with nearly all science, new stuff is built upon the work of others. So I did understand enough from my dated knowledge to follow much of the new stuff. I posted some comments not too long ago, but will summarize. The mRNA shots consist of tailored instructions very similar to the normal instructions each of our body cells use to make things the body needs. The cell nucleus has all the instructions in the DNA. That DNA creates it's own mRNA when the body needs a particular item made, often a protein.
The mRNA is just a small snippet of all the information in the DNA. The mRNA (memory RNA) is just instructions.
The shot mRNA is a version created in a lab with the instructions to make something very close to the spikes of protein that cover the current, at the time, covid19 virus. Very close but with some man included enhancements. Of those enhancements two stood out to me. One is that the instructions are tweaked so that a cell makes many more copies of the virus protein than a cell would normally make. It seems the codons at the end of a normal mRNA sequence which stop production are modified for this.

All those large numbers of copies of virus spike protein get out of the cell and trigger an immune response because the spike copies are considered invaders. After two shots the bodies immune reaction is to do several things, one of which is to make antibodies specific to attack (attach to) the spike copies themselves. Also if you happen to get infected with the actual virus the antibodies will attack( attach) to the real virus. Here is the main point. It is the natural immune system of the body which actually makes the antibodies and all other aspects of the vaccine immune reaction, not the shots.
Thing is that is just what the body does on it's own in a person who survives an infection naturally. Both natural immunity and shot immunity come from the actions of the person's own body.


There is a difference of opinion among medical scientist/researchers about what is more important with regard to immunity. Some think the total number of antibodies counts more while others think the overall immune reaction of the body counts more. Since the vaccines seem to cause a greater number of antibodies early on it is picked by those who support the vaccines. ( posted two links which discuss this a while back)
Other scientists/ researchers favor looking at the overall immune reaction over just antibody numbers. Here is the important bit about antibodies.
In both vaccine and natural immune reactions the number of antibodies will wane over time. This is the normal way. However the immune system maintains a base level of antibodies and can make more antibodies as needed. So is seems the only advantage of a vaccine shot for the naturally immune is to boost the antibody numbers for a while. If you happen to be in the camp which thinks antibody numbers are the better metric, then that is a reason to suggest the naturally immune also need get a shot. Thing is the naturally immune will be protected anyway even without the shot.
Of the several links I posted on natural immunity the one thing picked out to come back at on in this thread was the one which said this. After saying those with natural immunity are already as good to go and maybe better off than those with shots, they went on to say the naturally immune could be boosted with one shot. Translation = more antibody numbers from a shot.
I do not know the why the bit about a booster shot was added in the report. Could it be a money thing? I do not have the inside information. It does not make sense on the surface of it.
Hello; I left out a second thing which struck me when doing searching a few days ago. That being the copies of virus protein spikes made by the shots is not a true copy. The vaccine makers decided to modify the shot spikes some. I gathered that perhaps the modifications are hoped to make the shot antibodies cover more variety of virus. However some I read are concerned those man designed spike mods might be a source of problems from the shots. I guess the jury is still out on the more serious potential problems, but they did nail shingles and herpes virus side effects. Two things I can personally bear witness about.

I posted two links with this information a while back.
Sponsored

 
 




Top