S550 Chassis School

[thePill]

I have a question for people with direct experience with Control Blade systems. This is a wild speculation sort of question but, with CBIRS, the blades provided awesome anti-squat characteristics. It also had great control of body roll... Are the Sled Runners now working as a stationary control blade since it physically attaches to the ILIRS's cradle?

If so, the S550 could display strong anti-squat characteristics as well as lateral roll. The diamonding effect could also see a lot of improvement with a strong parallel supported center.

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[thePill]

Don't be pedantic. This thread consolidated a lot of great info that I would otherwise have to scavenge the net for.

Stick around bud, we should have more details after the Birthday. All the super technical crap...

...and hopefully waaaaaaaay more diagrams and pictures.


(Please Ford)

 

[qwkcoupe]

David P,

Yes please..... More technical crap... Roll center, instant centers. Anti dive and squat. Etc. New suspension magic..... Like beautifully nailed nailing front scrub radius, roll induced rear toe-in and rear negative camber.

Especially For the "Chassis" FAQ please nail the goodness right here...

Show S550 bettering S197 LS Boss 302 and GT.., throw a '93 coupe in there just for fun

Here we can see the actual benefit from a few of the technologies in place. Pretty big increases for just using basic shapes to absorb the loads.

 

[Thed]

Come on Pill. Do your thing.

 

[qwkcoupe]

Basically the long sled runners are almost the same purpose as full-length sub-frame connectors.

Now sleds attach to the transverse cross-member (name? for that vertical metal wall from left door to right door where the rear passengers heels touch down).

Now, the sleds are doing more to help the front crash/tires, but less critically overall end-to-end now thanks to ILIRS sub-frame to uni-body mounts taking over where the solid axle lower control arms were doing work, and ditto where the CBIRS's Control Blade was doing work to transmit fore/aft forces.

ILIRS is now transmitting the fore/aft rear axle forces through the ILIRS's own sub-frame. That lightens the load on the sled runners. There simply is not a rear lower control arm like there is for the solid axle cars.

We are waiting to see more for the REAR LOAD PATH

Rear S-Braces and Rear Y-Braces are the next Chassis discussion pictures... I have not seen any discussion about it other than the Lions Foot which as great as it is not a significant proportion of sheet metal in the rear of the car.

Rear Load Paths serve exactly the same purpose as their S & Y Brace friends on the front half of the car. Both carry forces the through the rockers and roof beams... At least we hope the rear wheel torque has a great solid path to the engine and transmission mounts... whether or not we call them rear S & R braces.

Cannot wait to see exactly how that ILIRS torque actually couples to the chassis more than the obvious Lions Foot.

• We are trying to pull the front inside tire off the ground while rocketing out from a corner!
  
• While trying to cut a great 60' time!

:ford:

 

[qwkcoupe]

I print screened all the pictures of the chassis cut up in the video here:
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=37554&postcount=27

this video


Never in 50 years have we seen all that without going to a junk yard.
...more in next post...

 

[qwkcoupe]

More

 

[thePill]

WOOOOOOO HOOOOOO!!!!

THANKS!!!!

Trying to determine what was added for the stunt.

 

[thePill]

Dave,

These are awesome, lots to look at. Thank you for taking the time and posting these up. First thing I noticed, it looks like an additional "Lions Foot" now has a cross member that connects the two at the base of the B-Pillar. In essance, it provides support to that area similar to the Boss 302 Laguna Seca's X Brace. The traditional Lions Foot from the Fusion is in place at the base of the C-Pillar/wheel well.

Thed,

Look at the undercarriage without a bulky torque box, you can see the tail end of the S brace in the pic you posted.

I need access to a computer so I can circle the areas of interest. I want people to know and understand the S550's chassis.

FORD, GIVE US SOME VERY DETAILED INFO AND PICS FOR DISCUSSION.

There is a large amount of technologies and techniques being used here. The more details the better.

 

[qwkcoupe]

I am no David Pericak. Let's keep rolling to keep his attention. Certainly he reads here.

 

[qwkcoupe]

WOOOOOOO HOOOOOO!!!!

THANKS!!!!

Trying to determine what was added for the stunt.

Looks like the stunt adds only the black 1" X2" tubing to tie pieces together and looks like suspension is mocked in place with a lot of pieces of suspension taken off.

All silver metal looks like the actual chassis.

 

[thePill]

Lol!!! Sorry Coupe, I was under the impression "Dave P" was your name, never made the "Real" Dave P connection.

Do you think that the "Lions Foot" type support under the B pillar functions the same as the actual "Lions Foot" under the C? The smaller foot support on the B has a cross member to prevent diamonding. The Lions foot under the C pillar links the pillar to the ILIRS sub frame. It acts somewhat similar to a steel plate when installing a roll bar/cage. The foot adds that additional support for the C pillar, sort of an anchor point. It also links that cradle to the C pillar, which is connected to the B, which has a mini-foot w/cross member, that is supported by the tranny tunnel... Which is connected to the Sled runners... ITS ALL TIED TOGETHER!!! Like Chassis Weaving!!!

Not sure if your up to speed on this area or not. I imagine it is just an additional support that the Fusion doesn't have, or at least I didn't notice.

Need some input from anyone to be honest.

 

[thePill]

Wait, are you saying the rear of the S550 also has an S and Y braces? I guess it makes sense due to the missing torque box, it would need a similar setup for the rear.

I have never, EVER, seen a Unibody like this... Not BMW, Merc, Audi, AM or Jag. Was this originally a Volvo design or was it completely R&D'd by Ford?

I need more pics, big time...

From what I see underneath, THIS MUSTANG IS SMALL. I mean, the entire undercarriage is slim and trim and it looks like it's been downsized by 30%.

There is no way this car gained weight in the shell...

Edit: Does the ILIRS Cradle connect in some way to the B-Pillar foot's cross member?

 

[thePill]

This is a good pic, this is a pic of the ILIRS in place. The cradle is in black, DO NOT confuse the stunt frame support for chassis. Above the cradle, a major support beam Y's out and connects to the "B-Pillar Cross Member". Remember, the mini foot at the top? This is underneath. The holes must be for weight savings AND, if they have a lip or ring engineered around them, they make that area stronger. Anyway, the B-Pillar Cross Member runs from rocker to rocker AND attaches to the transmission tunnel. It is also connected to the Sled runners...

...Those sled runners meet back up with the rockers at the Y braces. You can see where the Sled and Y brace meet. It looks like a Y with a - in the V if ya know what I mean. That is new if its what I really see.

The Sled runners run from Y brace to Y brace. The S550 could probably support a supercharged V8 no problem, twin turbo's shouldn't be an issue... In fact, it could probably support a great deal more engine weight than an S197. At first glance, the Unibody is very tight, pulled in and athletic. The undercarriage is all laid down and neatly and evenly flush. Like the surface of a Star Destroyer... The cut away pics reveal that the stampings themselves are thin, its the overall shape that makes the structure strong, remember, efficiency of design.

Looking at the IRS from here, it is not a heavy design. It is very, very compact. I imagine it weighs no more than the solid axle although, that cradle could be deceiving. The rocker design is bulky but, most GT cars and 2 door coupes use a big rocker now, usually clad with some sort of high power splitter to bounce some road kill off of.

A traditional Unibody is basically a box, using a torque box to stand "pillars" on. This, I guess, no longer needs a heavy reinforcement such as that because the "Pillars" in which once stood on the platform, now were self supporting their own weight. Remember that the A and C pillars are joined, like a rainbow, while the B Pillar creates the "Triangle" at one side. The roof acts as a shear plate for the pillars... Now, while the Pillar and roof assembly may not require a huge platform to support it, it doesn't mean that's all it does. In fact, the Roof/Pillar shape is responsible for that "Silhouette Innovation". In reality, it is probably just as strong as the platform once its in place.

The Sled runners are huge, and even shaped aerodynamically it seems. An aerodynamic structure??? Hmmmmmmm????

I say, this platform here is significantly lighter than the S197. It is just no where near as bulky, its streamlined.... There is just NO extra anything here... The only thing on the platform is a support or cross member of some kind. It is very lightweight, even with the floor pans in, it looks like a sports car chassis, not a Pony car at all.

Edit:

@ Coupe,

That "wall" you were talking about is under the B pillar. The S197 had a beam, a solid beam if I remember correctly. The S550 has a thin metal wall, that is supported by the B pillar cross member. It joins the transmission tunnel, sled runners, rockers and B pillars together. I answered my own question, it does actually link the Y Braces up to the sled runners and rockers. It does not support the ILIRS cradle in any way, the C pillar arrangement uses the lions foot to support the ILIRS cradle. The B and C pillar are basically a single triangular pillar. This is much lighter and stronger as the S197's structural cross member...

Here is an inside pic of the shot above, just flipped right to left...

Looking at these now, I can say that the S197 and S550 are in no relation. This doesn't even have anything in common with the CD4 except the ILIRS design... maybe the spare tire well... This new Unibody has never been used on a Mustang or a Pony car, the upcoming 6th Gen Camaro is built on a traditional traditional Torquebox/Pillar type Unibody or, what seems like Stonehenge now...

Edit: I need to hand it to you guys, Thed and Coupe, these pictures were major pieces of puzzle. You can see the structure quality here, all the supports and even down to the layers. It looks great... This has more in common with a typical Sports car than a sedan based coupe, this is a new Mustang. Good thinkin' guys....

Good catch on the front and rear S and Y brace intel Coupe. Without a torque box, it makes sense to mirror the front load bearing shape in the rear. It seems the front and rear SY systems are uniquely design for their specific application.

Is there a driveshaft loop on there? Is that casted/welded like that to support the car from being cut?

 

[Trackaholic]

Car of a similar size and configuration, BMW M4 with a manual box is 3300lb. The weight of the 15 GT is something I'll be more interested then even the power output of the Coyote. C'mon Ford, give us a great surprise.
Keep up the thread going Pill, it's a good read.

Not to derail the thread, but this info on the M4's weight grabbed my attention. I had heard that the M3/M4 were supposed to lose quite a bit of weight, approaching the 3300 lb range as mentioned above. However, when I check specs now, they seem to be talking more like 3500-3600 lbs.

Here, on the BMW USA website, the weight is reported as:
M3 = 3540 lbs (Manual), 3595 (automatic - assuming this is the dual clutch)
M4 = 3530 lbs (Manaul), 3585 (automatic)

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Cont...Features_and_Specs/M3SedanSpecifications.aspx

To me, this seems quite a bit higher than was mentioned originally. Is this just a matter of different standards used for measurement, or different features, or safety requirements?

No matter the reason, I suspect Ford will have similar difficulties getting weight much below 3500 lbs (and that's my attempt to bring things back on topic).

-T

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