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S550 Chassis School

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(COMING SOON)

If you missed the CD4 Chassis School thread, please skim through that section. There are a lot of engineering terms and techniques that are used in the Fusion that will be found on the Mustang. This section will mostly deal with the shell and safety structure. Although, front and rear suspension conversation is welcomed...

Lighter? Heavier? Aluminum? Boron? Lots to discuss in a few short days...

Edit: Moderator, moderate this thread to the correct section. General S550... srry, on the go.

Edit2: Actually, I guess it can stay here, there will be a lot of pictures.

For fun, let's at least talk about what we MIGHT expect the S550 to be.

For starters, the S550 will probably use what is called an S-Brace to support the engine cradle. I can't say for sure if the engine cradle is Aluminium, I cannot tell by the Primer pics we seen. Probably not, at least not yet... The S-Brace is special, special because it is not shaped like traditional Unibody cars.

You see, the two S-Braces connect to what is called the Y-brace. The Y brace cometely eliminates the traditional Unibodys Torque Box. A tradition Unibody has a severe issue up front, the Alpha chassis GM has also suffers from this. The engine cradle supports connect in almost a 90 degree angle. That creates a "hinge", and more than one hinge to be exact. A hinge is a pivot point on a chassis/platform, in other words, it's a weak spot. Now, this can be made somewhat more rigid but, more metal means more weight. That hinge would need a triangular shape engineered from support to firewall... and all do... The other hinge is at the torque box location itself, again, this area is supported heavily. The rockers are a support beam for this area...

As I said, the S braces are curved down, it eliminates the 90• angles and the Y itself is no more than a big triangle. (The Triangle is the strongest shape in the automotive chassis/platform world.).

NEXT: SLED RUNNERS

Sled runners, if you haven't heard that before, STOP, Goggle it and brush up on it. It's good to know and always overlooked. The Fusions Sled Runners are HUGE, like extending all the way back to the rear seat area. They are not really large in the sense as physically big, the design is just more than what is usually used. These runners transfer the load from the Y brace evenly to the rest of the car. The Y brace supports the S brace, S brace engine cradle, engine cradle engine... Got it? Usually, a lot of chassis weight AND chassis weakness comes from this area... at the firewall.

What your seeing is an evolution of the Unibody here, it isn't like the Alpha or S197 or any other Mustang ever... This new "efficiency of design" also increases front impact performance, which is really good. What this system does, along with other systems I will talk about later, is transfers energy around the occupants... The force of a frontal impact is literally being channeled to the rear and out the back of the car... It's really neat...

THE PILLARS:

Silloutte Innovation, that's what this is called. In short, it's a Bullet shaped exterior with an Egg shaped interior. Now, this Bullet/Egg shape is not really visible, it's only visible in Physics. This imaginary 3d shape creates a strong structure, vastly increasing structural rigidity and occupant safety. Like the Triangle, the Bullet/Egg is another strong shape that is also aerodynamic.

Now, the A and C pillars are literally a single, solid piece. They are ONE solid piece and what looks to be like in solid relation to the roof. I mean, no roof gutters, the roof has become a stronger SHEAR PLATE (Google that).
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First off, let me apologize for yesterday... I was on the go and intended to post the link to the previous thread and pictures along with it. I showered, updated the laptop and passed out before it was finished... Sorry about that... Lets fix this right away...

First, here is the link to the CD4 Chassis School thread.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php/cd4-chassis-school-842.html?t=842

Here is what we know already, this is the CD4's ILIRS. It is very, very similar to what the S550 uses, at least in design. I'm not sure half-shafts would clear the control arms but, it's possible.








Here is the ILIRS from the top, as you can see, it is compact and seemingly light weight compared to traditional Short-Long Arm IRS (SLA).



From the side, look at the total height of the entire modular unit. Design to be tucked into the structure.





After some examination, it is very similar to the M3's suspension. As it sits, the IRS pictured is between 140-150lbs, with the rear end, the weight goes up to 200-220lbs. About the same as the current S197's Solid Axle (about 210lbs). This is without the wheels, tires, brakes of course AND, the solid axles weight is without the wheels, tires, brakes, sways and control arms. So, these two systems are pretty close in weight.

Back to the Safety Structure...

The Fusion is an awesome car, it is literally the first family sedan I have ever looked at and said "NICE!!". I know I'm getting older, my testosterone could be dropping... Nah, the Fusion is just really good looking... Currently, the Fusion rest on a 112 inch wheelbase, that's pretty much a full size wheelbase. The car doesn't look like it to me, It seems smaller. The Eco-boost 2.0's curb weight is 3425lbs!!! That's a very good sign.


(cont...)
 

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Can we get a mod to move this thread to the appropriate forum?
 
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Think about that for a minute, the CD4 has a 112 inch wheelbase and is a base 3425lbs. It doesn't use Aluminum, just HSS (High Strength Steel) and Boron. Here is the Fusions CD4 and the specific items I talked about yesterday.


 
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Here is the S Brace and the Y brace I talked about yesterday, this is an evolution of the Unibody. It eliminates the natural hinge points a tradition structure has.

 

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The A pillar, remember, this extends and joins directly to the C pillar now.

 
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The S550 has a B pillar but, it is NOT shaped like the CD4. At least it isn't exposed like the Fusions. This is where the Mustang will lose ALOT of weight vs. the Fusion. That entire backseat area will be a bit larger than the Fusions C to D pillar area. That is a great deal of savings. Keep in mind, that extra weight saved there was likely engineered right back into the platform for performance AND convertible support.



We can see the performance benefits of Hydro Formed panels vs. the Hard Press. Cost and weight savings here, you can bet the S550 adopts the B pillar lessons learned from the Fusion.

 
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The S550's C Pillar will be strong, super strong... While everyone is praising the Fastback, the magic underneath will go unmentioned. As I said previously, the A Pillar is now joined with the C pillar. In the S550 design, the B and C Pillars are basically a large Triangular support for the A Pillar. The S550 is shaping up to be a very rigid platform.



The Lions Foot in the rear, located at the base of the C Pillar for rear end torsional rigidity. I suppose, once we get one into the garage, an additional support can be welded into place for competition. Kinda like a rear strut tower brace.
 
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I suspect Ford will use more Structural Adhesive this time. I know what many are thinking, glue is not as strong as honest welds. Your wrong, I too assumed that until I witnessed the power of the adhesive first hand and now on a regular basis. Its strong, cheap and it actually improves NVH AND Chassis rigidity. ANother advantage is, you can't screw it up like a traditional weld. Early Monday morning, technician kinda dry from the Sunday before... Not all welds are created equal. The glue doesn't screw up. Another advantage is, there is a short time when the work pieces are still free to move and work with. That is a big help. What Ford has been doing is using a combination of the two, Weld then glue... Kind of a fail safe just in case one or the other fails.



Most importantly, NO HEAT... Heated metal is weak, Ford is Cold roll. Bedroom Forming I think (Edit: Not fixing that auto-correct, HYDRO FORMING) the metal is only hot when it's first poured from the forge... That's a good thing and glue again insures no heat.

Another thing is gluing Aluminum to Steel, the engine cradle cannot be Aluminum if you don't glue it fellas.
 
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Here we can see the actual benefit from a few of the technologies in place. Pretty big increases for just using basic shapes to absorb the loads.



Here, I want you guys and girls to pay attention to this load map below. See how the S brace is positioned lower than usual, the traditional supports on Unibody structruls are usually higher. This support sits lower, it supports the weight of the engine at the sides, transferring that weight the Y brace. The Y evens out the weight between the Rockers and Sled Runners.



I like the sound of this, a Boron Roof Ring...

 

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Now, some have suggested that maybe the ILIRS could be to blame for a possible weight gain. It could be heavier, I just don't think it will be that much if any than the outgoing Solid Rear Axle. In fact, most of the weight from the ILIRS is NOT unsprung mass. It is the large cradle that supports the system (in gray above). The Links, hub, spring and struts probably only weight about 30lbs per side. The rear axle, half shafts have most of the weight, but, that weight will be almost identical to the solid axle, they are almost the same thing.

What I find interesting is the Fusions curb weight of 3425lbs. I like this number And, I think the EB Mustang can beat that mark for sure. It wouldn't surprise me to see the base car (both EB and V6) break into the 33XX curb weight.

Think about it, it has a Ford Taurus wheelbase and has a 3400lbs curb weight.

Can a two door coupe settle below a 4 door sedan in curb weight? Um, yeah... Its almost guaranteed. Even new 2 door/4 door models see a slight weight advantage go to the 2 door. In most cases, 50-100lbs. Now imagine a 2 door coupe, with no 4 door option... The S550 is 5 inches shorted in wheelbase, that's is significant. That is a lot of metal being removed, track is wider on the S550 but track increases are not as large as the length. Most of those inches are from offset, wheels and suspension changes (which is where it occurred).

No extra doors, no extra "D" Pillar and a larger roof... all missing from the S550

If the Fusion is 112 inches and 3425lbs, the Mustang sits at 107. Same engines, different transmissions (the Getrag is the lightest 6 speed in the World at 109lbs wet). The transmission tunnel will set it back but everything else, the Mustang is smaller.

I predict:
The Mustang V6 will weigh 3325lbs
The Ecoboost Mustang will weigh 3350lbs
The 5.0 will be right around 3490lbs, we are looking at the EB's weight and building from there. Most of the equipment will be GT equipment. Getrags are the same, rear ends are the same...

The Mustang GTR will fight to stay below the 3500lbs mark. About 100lbs heavier than the Z51 Stingray. If the mark is met, the Corvette is in a little trouble.

We previously seen a 140lbs increase from V6 to V8 BUT, most of that increase was from 255 tires, 18/19 inch wheels, suspension, larger brakes... Some of that weight gain is already absorbed with the EB Mustang's standard performance equipment.

So, what is thePIll trying to say? I'm saying an Ecoboost Mustang WILL NOT BE HEAVIER than a EB fusion. I say, it could be up to 100lbs lighter right off the bat. Does anyone think a transmission tunnel is responsible for an increase?
 
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Here is a good example of an older, more traditional platform. This is the Cadillac ATs's chassis (minus suspension). You can instantly see the front engine supports and how they mount to the firewall area. You can see the hinge I was talking about AND, the triangle type support in place to correct that. The firewall area has extensive reinforcement.



Here is the CD4 for comparison... In essance, the S brace absorbs most of the cradle supports weight and pretty much leaves it to hang fenders on.



Here is a closer look, notice the teeny, tiny sled runners the ATS is using. This is a 4 cylinder chassis for sure, those sled runners cannot support V8 weight. To the left you can see the engine cradle support and the triangular reinforcement in place there. The firewall is used to further support the weight of the engine as well as the rockers. This thing need larger rockers AND runners to be a V8.



Look at these bad boys, the Fusion's Sled Runners make the ATS's runners look like tooth picks.

 

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Now, some have suggested that maybe the ILIRS could be to blame for a possible weight gain. It could be heavier, I just don't think it will be that much if any than the outgoing Solid Rear Axle. In fact, most of the weight from the ILIRS is NOT unsprung mass. It is the large cradle that supports the system (in gray above). The Links, hub, spring and struts probably only weight about 30lbs per side. The rear axle, half shafts have most of the weight, but, that weight will be almost identical to the solid axle, they are almost the same thing.

What I find interesting is the Fusions curb weight of 3425lbs. I like this number And, I think the EB Mustang can beat that mark for sure. It wouldn't surprise me to see the base car (both EB and V6) break into the 33XX curb weight.

Think about it, it has a Ford Taurus wheelbase and has a 3400lbs curb weight.

Can a two door coupe settle below a 4 door sedan in curb weight? Um, yeah... Its almost guaranteed. Even new 2 door/4 door models see a slight weight advantage go to the 2 door. In most cases, 50-100lbs. Now imagine a 2 door coupe, with no 4 door option... The S550 is 5 inches shorted in wheelbase, that's is significant. That is a lot of metal being removed, track is wider on the S550 but track increases are not as large as the length. Most of those inches are from offset, wheels and suspension changes (which is where it occurred).
It's not just about the footprint and number of doors. the strength demands of the chassis are world's apart in a sports car that for all intents and purposes is meant to support all of the hipo variants to come. Ford is on record saying they added a lot of additional bracing to the front subframe and I would guess the pillars as well. All of this contributes to weight.
 

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Now, some have suggested that maybe the ILIRS could be to blame for a possible weight gain. It could be heavier, I just don't think it will be that much if any than the outgoing Solid Rear Axle. In fact, most of the weight from the ILIRS is NOT unsprung mass. It is the large cradle that supports the system (in gray above). The Links, hub, spring and struts probably only weight about 30lbs per side. The rear axle, half shafts have most of the weight, but, that weight will be almost identical to the solid axle, they are almost the same thing.

What I find interesting is the Fusions curb weight of 3425lbs. I like this number And, I think the EB Mustang can beat that mark for sure. It wouldn't surprise me to see the base car (both EB and V6) break into the 33XX curb weight.

Think about it, it has a Ford Taurus wheelbase and has a 3400lbs curb weight.

Can a two door coupe settle below a 4 door sedan in curb weight? Um, yeah... Its almost guaranteed. Even new 2 door/4 door models see a slight weight advantage go to the 2 door. In most cases, 50-100lbs. Now imagine a 2 door coupe, with no 4 door option... The S550 is 5 inches shorted in wheelbase, that's is significant. That is a lot of metal being removed, track is wider on the S550 but track increases are not as large as the length. Most of those inches are from offset, wheels and suspension changes (which is where it occurred).

No extra doors, no extra "D" Pillar and a larger roof... all missing from the S550

If the Fusion is 112 inches and 3425lbs, the Mustang sits at 107. Same engines, different transmissions (the Getrag is the lightest 6 speed in the World at 109lbs wet). The transmission tunnel will set it back but everything else, the Mustang is smaller.

I predict:
The Mustang V6 will weigh 3325lbs
The Ecoboost Mustang will weigh 3350lbs
The 5.0 will be right around 3490lbs, we are looking at the EB's weight and building from there. Most of the equipment will be GT equipment. Getrags are the same, rear ends are the same...

The Mustang GTR will fight to stay below the 3500lbs mark. About 100lbs heavier than the Z51 Stingray. If the mark is met, the Corvette is in a little trouble.

We previously seen a 140lbs increase from V6 to V8 BUT, most of that increase was from 255 tires, 18/19 inch wheels, suspension, larger brakes... Some of that weight gain is already absorbed with the EB Mustang's standard performance equipment.

So, what is thePIll trying to say? I'm saying an Ecoboost Mustang WILL NOT BE HEAVIER than a EB fusion. I say, it could be up to 100lbs lighter right off the bat. Does anyone think a transmission tunnel is responsible for an increase?
What about the drive shaft? The Fusion does not need a drive shaft but the RWD EB does. Just asking.
 
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A driveshaft weighs 45lbs along with a tunnel, it is probably the heaviest addition vs. the CD4. We are still missing 2 doors, a large roof, a huge B pillar construction and a 5x70 inch section of HSS, Mild and Boron steel. Off the top of my head, that is well over 150lbs. Hell, I single door with glass weighs nearly 60lbs.

Tempus,

I agree bud, big time. Some of that missing metal will come back as additional support. The Fusion has a front cross member too. Most of that metal will go into places needed by the convertible. That will also enhance performance...

It's not looking like a major increase really anywhere. In fact, portion for portion, the Mustang just looks lighter, much lighter than the CD4.
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