Reworking voodoo heads

[16MustangVet]

It's not that easy. The stock cams are pretty much to the limit for a 4 valve head. The GT350 5.2 stock cams have 14mm (.551) of lift already.
Jpc does not grind cams. The main problem with the GT350 is hood clearance for an intake and lack of larger throttle body. I've contacted Hogan manifolds December 2015, a custom intake can be made. For $4500 and up. Not the best bargain for 10-30hp that's unknown.

JPC does grind cams either that or RGR does for them i just called them last week about jpc na cams........Or have them spec out cams from a blank core. Lift is only 1 piece of the equation here. LSA and ramp rate has alot to do with it too. I mean JPC made 500hp NA on a coyote ages ago in the s197 platform with a set of regrinds.

Honestly for what you want to do id punt that hood and do a cowl you already said you cant lower the engine correct?

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[Voodooo]

JPC does grind cams either that or RGR does for them i just called them last week about jpc na cams........Or have them spec out cams from a blank core. Lift is only 1 piece of the equation here. LSA and ramp rate has alot to do with it too. I mean JPC made 500hp NA on a coyote ages ago in the s197 platform with a set of regrinds.

Honestly for what you want to do id punt that hood and do a cowl you already said you cant lower the engine correct?

I've been doing engine work for 27 years. Not to sound cocky but I know what else a cam involves. I highly doubt jpc has a cam grinder. I'm not sure which RGR you're referring to.
Correct unless I go with a dry sump oiling system, the 5.2 can not be lowered more than 1/4-3/8". The K member to oil pan is to close. Plus the flat plane crank vibrations are to much for solid mounts.
Plus no way in hell am I going to butcher my body work for a hood. Not to mention nobody makes a hood for the gt350. The whole clip from windshield forward is unique to the gt350 vs standard mustang. The fenders, hood, bumper, core support etc are all lower by over 1" compared to the GT and standard mustang. The 2018 mustang will also have hood to intake issues if they ever try to put a cobra jet on a 2018 mustang forget it. Not gonna fit because the 2018 is also lowered similar to the gt350.
When I bought my car over a year ago I tried a cobra jet intake and it would not allow the hood to close by over 1".
Right now I'm making 536 rwhp on watson Racing's dyno. My only engine mods are ARH long tubes, catless x pipes and Lund tune for 100 octane Sunoco race gas 260 GT.
This is still with stock mufflers and stock CAI. I've tried the JLT on the dyno and it was literally worth 1 rwhp over stock. That more than likely was from the 10 minute cool down between swaps. So I put the stock CAI back on. I like the oem looks of the CAI better anyhow. I wish ford performance would of came out with their 100mm throttle body like they said almost a year ago but last I spoke to them they are not going to do it.
At this time I'll just wait and see what comes next. I'm in no way going to add a blower or turbos to this car. I have always been a NA guy and I'll keep this car NA also. I've dropped 200 pounds from my car and done a bunch of suspension mods. I'd like to go with a sequential Hollenger transmission but I'll wait a bit and see.

 

[16MustangVet]

I've been doing engine work for 27 years. Not to sound cocky but I know what else a cam involves. I highly doubt jpc has a cam grinder. I'm not sure which RGR you're referring to.

X years of experience? what does that matter in this discussion? If you have whatever years experience doing engine work then youd understand even voodoo cams CAN be reground.....

If you dont know who RGR is then how can you claim you doubt JPC has a cam grinder? JPC and RGR have collaborated on MANY engine builds.

JPC regrinds cira 2011 producing 500whp NA on a coyote. This car went 9s over 5 years ago....

http://www.stangtv.com/news/jpc-clad-mustang-tops-500-rwhp-naturally-aspirated/

Producing that power begins with JPC’s Stage 1 ported cylinder heads and their re-ground Stage 1 camshaft, along with a set of long tube headers, an offroad X-pipe, over-axle pipes, and a custom tune from our friends at DiabloSport. Other additions include an axle-back exhaust setup from Bassani, a Boss intake from Ford Racing, and a JLT cold air intake.

Heres who RGR is

http://www.rgrengines.com

But hey what the hell do i know i dont have 27 years experience........:doh:

 

[Voodooo]

I know the cams can be made. My point is I'm not going to be the test mule.
JPC does not grind their own cams. I guarantee you.
Do you have any idea what's involved in grinding cams?
Plus your comparing a 2011 5.0 to a 5.2. The 2011 cams are weak compared to a 5.2. The 5.2 is pretty maxed out for a 4 valve head. Sure duration, center line, lobes etc can all be changed, but to say jpc is grinding a cam for a 5.0 and 5.2 for that matter is not happening at their shop. The 5.2 with a stock engine makes over 500rwhp with a tune and headers.

Do you know how many cam grinders their are out there grinding cams?
Jpc isn't one of them. I doubt rgr is either. Now, for them to have custom grinds done to their specs yes I believe that.

X years of experience? what does that matter in this discussion? If you have whatever years experience doing engine work then youd understand even voodoo cams CAN be reground.....

If you dont know who RGR is then how can you claim you doubt JPC has a cam grinder? JPC and RGR have collaborated on MANY engine builds.

JPC regrinds cira 2011 producing 500whp NA on a coyote. This car went 9s over 5 years ago....

http://www.stangtv.com/news/jpc-clad-mustang-tops-500-rwhp-naturally-aspirated/

Producing that power begins with JPC’s Stage 1 ported cylinder heads and their re-ground Stage 1 camshaft, along with a set of long tube headers, an offroad X-pipe, over-axle pipes, and a custom tune from our friends at DiabloSport. Other additions include an axle-back exhaust setup from Bassani, a Boss intake from Ford Racing, and a JLT cold air intake.

Heres who RGR is

http://www.rgrengines.com

But hey what the hell do i know i dont have 27 years experience........:doh:

 

[16MustangVet]

Pretty sure were not on the same page here.

All im saying is unless your willing for have cams done from blanks regrinds are the only other option.

The 500whp NA 5.0 was merely to show what was done 5 years ago with regrinds. I dont care who or where they came from they got JPC/RGR's name on them just the same as all the ported heads JPC offers.

BTW from talking to JPC last week they are supposedly doing a 5.2 block coyote crank voodoo headed custom spec cam NA build swinging for 600whp for an All Motor drag car. Time will tell if those are stock cams regrinds or custom from blanks i dont know.

Once more people either A start using voodoo heads on the 5.0 or B start doing gt350 builds id expect more cam info to follow.

Then again getting info for cams on a 5.0 is like pulling teeth let alone a gt350 most people dont dare mod.

 

[Voodooo]

Pretty sure were not on the same page here.

All im saying is unless your willing for have cams done from blanks regrinds are the only other option.

The 500whp NA 5.0 was merely to show what was done 5 years ago with regrinds. I dont care who or where they came from they got JPC/RGR's name on them just the same as all the ported heads JPC offers.

I'm not trying to argue with you. You simply said jpc rgr grinds cams and I said they do not grind their own. Meaning they do not own a cam grinding machine. Like I said, they may have comp cams, lunati, crane etc grind them to their specs I'll agree.
Moving on, I do not see the 5.2 as being under cammed. I can not find the duration or centers listed anywhere, but the lift is all that's published that I can find and that's 14mm both intake and exhaust. Which is a lot for a 4 valve head. Ford said they maxed it out on the 4 valve head and left no room. I think that what does have room for improvement is the intake and throttle body.
I agree 5 years ago 500 NA hp from a 5.0 was amazing. But today we have that stock from the factory.
The 5.0 and 5.2 aluminator use the ford performance voodoo spec cams on the 5.0 firing order for the cross plane crank.

http://www.enginelabs.com/features/...rd-racings-new-5-2-coyote-crate-engine-a52xs/

 

[16MustangVet]

Once voodoo heads are ported i believe that will open the door for custom spec cams being a worth while option for a NA build.

Also i have a feeling that a big reason why not many people are doing cams at all on the coyote/voodoo engines is that the VCT on both intake and exhaust is far easier to manipulate the phasing/timing of the vct rather than physically swapping cams.

http://www.stangtv.com/news/how-much-power-does-coyote-vct-account-for-aem-answers-the-question/

power gained just by manipulating the vct in this aem article is amazing.

The testing conducted by AEM proves how vital the VCT system is. With no VCT, the Coyote engine peaks out at 6,500 RPM making 423.1 hp. With the intake only VCT, the engine only picks up 5.8 peak horsepower jumping to 428.9 hp at the same 6,500 RPM. With the exhaust VCT also activated, the engine puts out 465.4 hp at 6,500 RPM. This is where carefully studying the dyno information is valuable. A total gain at peak RPM of 42.3 hp might not sound like its worth the trouble of the VCT, but closer inspection shows a much bigger story. At 3,900 RPM the engine is making 109.3 hp more with the VCT activated than it was without.

The story is very similar, and perhaps even more dramatic in terms of torque. With no VCT the engine made 368.6 lb-ft at 5,400 RPM. With the intake VCT active, that torque jumps to a peak of 412.2 lb-ft, and the peak drops down to 4,400 RPM, torque stays above 400 lb-ft until nearly 5,400 RPM. Activating the VCT on the exhaust cam shows another substantial spike in peak torque output, taking total peak torque to 454.4 lb-ft at 4,400 RPM. That’s a gain of 85.8 lb-ft, at peak.

Once again with torque, the graph proves out how valuable the VCT is for torque as well. Take a look at the torque graph at 3,700 RPM. At that point we can see that with VCT, the Coyote engine is making another 149.9 lb-ft than without. Even at the horsepower peak of 6,500 RPM, torque with VCT active is still outrunning torque with it deactivated, with the engine making over 375 lb-ft at 6,500 RPM. The non VCT setup never outmatches the VCT activated setup for torque or horsepower, especially below peak where it matters the most.

 

[Voodooo]

I agree.
The only problem with the voodoo is, I do not see any cams being made. A 5.2 cross plane crank firing order I see a market for, but for a flat plane crank firing order I doubt we'll see any aftermarket/custom cams.

 

[16MustangVet]

ohh and you mentioned you believe the gains are to be had with intake and throttle body.

well ive asked before and ill ask again when is someone going to put ITBs (individual throttle bodies) on a voodoo!? Hoods be damned that engine is begging for ITBs with its free reving giant rpm band of the flat plane crank.

Voodoo with itbs would forsure be an eargasm at 8500-9k rpm!

 

[Voodooo]

ohh and you mentioned you believe the gains are to be had with intake and throttle body.

well ive asked before and ill ask again when is someone going to put ITBs (individual throttle bodies) on a voodoo!? Hoods be damned that engine is begging for ITBs with its free reving giant rpm band of the flat plane crank.

Voodoo with itbs would forsure be an eargasm at 8500-9k rpm!

I agree 100%. I wish I could figure out why my phone won't allow posting of pics on here anymore. Let me see if I can find my old intake thread. One sec.

 

[Voodooo]

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47078&highlight=Hogan+intake

 

[16MustangVet]

Ive seen most of them before and as everyone mentioned before in that thread too the voodoo needs ITB's!!

Imagine ported heads comp stage 3 cams or custom specs on a 5.0 with them itbs! they made over 500 just with intake and headers. ported heads and cams gotta be worth another 50 at least i bet.

 

[Voodooo]

http://www.stangtv.com/news/video-a-coyote-5-0-with-individual-throttle-bodies-hits-8200-rpm/

 

[16MustangVet]

yep seen that one too.

And here in a different thread recently people were acting like 500whp from bolt ons NA would be a miracle.....

 

[Voodooo]

yep seen that one too.

And here in a different thred recently people were acting like 500whp from bolt ons NA would be a miracle.....

lol exactly.
I always laugh at that "bolt on" statement. A blower, rods, Pistons, heads, intake, cams. Etc are all bolted on lol

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