Replaced Voodoo Engine

[tlisotta]

It’d be interesting to see if your block is of the “new engine” line or the old.

Yep. I doubt they will tell ya as it will be an admission for a recall

 

[CANTWN4LSN]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with any one in this or other threads but the idea has been floated that we need keep the rpms low on this engine until the temp is over 190 degrees. However I can not find any support for this in the owner's manual or supplemental material. In fact the only thing I see is that the engine limits itself to 8000rpm until it is up to that temp then can go to 8250. Happy to be corrected if there is more info out there or something I missed. In the meantime just because there are failures doesn't mean it has anything to do with how this car is driven and my guess is it is far more robust than we give it credit for. The failures are perhaps far more likely manufacturing defects than driver induced.

 

[tlisotta]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with any one in this or other threads but the idea has been floated that we need keep the rpms low on this engine until the temp is over 190 degrees. However I can not find any support for this in the owner's manual or supplemental material. In fact the only thing I see is that the engine limits itself to 8000rpm until it is up to that temp then can go to 8250. Happy to be corrected if there is more info out there or something I missed. In the meantime just because there are failures doesn't mean it has anything to do with how this car is driven and my guess is it is far more robust than we give it credit for. The failures are perhaps far more likely manufacturing defects than driver induced.

Yep. I agree.

 

[fpa1974]

For me this is just mechanical empathy (for a lack of better words). It is up to you how you want to treat your engine/car but with a high strung motor and relatively thick oil weight it makes sense to not beat on it before it gets to a certain temperature (it does not have to be 190, I personally shoot for 150-170). You can skip it but the wear and tear and chances of potential issues down the road will increase.

 

[tlisotta]

For me this is just mechanical empathy (for a lack of better words). It is up to you how you want to treat your engine/car but with a high strung motor and relatively thick oil weight it makes sense to not beat on it before it gets to a certain temperature (it does not have to be 190, I personally shoot for 150-170). You can skip it but the wear and tear and chances of potential issues down the road will increase.

I agree - I think the point is most of the failures (if not all) are attributed to an engine defect or assembly error IMO. I did all the right things on break in, oil changes, etc and it still nuked. Hopefully my second engine is solid

 

[17RubyShelbyGT350]

Data Update - Frequency Count Statistics

I recently checked back here and saw two additional reports of engine failures which necessitate Ford replacement. This will be my final report for this statistical exercise. Please see my prior posts re the background pertaining to how this was done and why this was done.

I have rechecked member's data and have increased the membership count from N=303 to N=305. With the addition of two additional engine failures requiring replacement, the frequency count of failures rises to 24, resulting in a failure rate 0f 7.8% for the data set of forum members.

This is the only data set I have access to which contains a few hundred of these cars. I have been asked about the possibility of sample bias. Before answering that, let's first define what it is. Sample bias occurs when within a given sample, data is collected in a way where some members of the measured population that should have been included, are not included , thus rendering the population not representative. Sample bias may be the result of either intentional or unintentional actions of the persons conducting the study.

Since I own one of these cars, I have no reason to bias the available data, rather just the opposite, given my personal financial investment. And, what about unintentional bias? My take is that members here cross all ages, geographical areas, model years, R's and non-R's, people who only use on the street versus either occasional or heavy track use. So it would appear to be a diverse population.

I do not know if the sample size is mathematically "statistically significant" and I have stated such throughout the study. Given that, I find the frequency count percentage to be, at the very least, concerning to me and a potential indicator of potential quality control issues related to either production and/or components.

Years ago, when I bought a C4 Corvette ZR1 (the one with the Lotus designed overhead cam motor) I was excited about the fact it was "hand built" by someone whose name was on the engine. Quite proud about it, actually. it was only some years later, when visiting the Corvette production facility I was introduced to one of the recently retired engineers there who told me that the "hand built" ZR1 motor was a nice selling point, but in reality, selected people were assembling components (like heads) which were already mass produced and that "hand built" was no guarantor of any additional engine quality or integrity. Same story with the C6 Z06 engines, which had significant valve drop failures. So there is that.

The times I have been through this before, it seems that it took 3-4 years for the manufacturer to assess and quietly respond with manufacturing changes to reduce and hopefully reduce the problems. They all followed the same routine, harvest the failed engines from the dealer, have them shipped back to the company, replace the customer's engine.

I suspect that somewhere during the 2018 production run, Ford applied these changes and hopefully resolve the issue(s). We can continue to speculate forever why this is happening, but the unvarnished truth is that we most likely never really know. If a Ford "deep throat" comes forward, or someone wants to undergo the legalistic hell of trying to sue the corporation (like some frustrated C7 Z06 owners are trying to do), we will never know.

This is just how it is whether it is GM, Porsche, Ford, etc.

Again, thanks to the many folks who have reached out privately to me regarding this modest exercise.

 

[tlisotta]

I recently checked back here and saw two additional reports of engine failures which necessitate Ford replacement. This will be my final report for this statistical exercise. Please see my prior posts re the background pertaining to how this was done and why this was done.

I have rechecked member's data and have increased the membership count from N=303 to N=305. With the addition of two additional engine failures requiring replacement, the frequency count of failures rises to 24, resulting in a failure rate 0f 7.8% for the data set of forum members.

This is the only data set I have access to which contains a few hundred of these cars. I have been asked about the possibility of sample bias. Before answering that, let's first define what it is. Sample bias occurs when within a given sample, data is collected in a way where some members of the measured population that should have been included, are not included , thus rendering the population not representative. Sample bias may be the result of either intentional or unintentional actions of the persons conducting the study.

Since I own one of these cars, I have no reason to bias the available data, rather just the opposite, given my personal financial investment. And, what about unintentional bias? My take is that members here cross all ages, geographical areas, model years, R's and non-R's, people who only use on the street versus either occasional or heavy track use. So it would appear to be a diverse population.

I do not know if the sample size is mathematically "statistically significant" and I have stated such throughout the study. Given that, I find the frequency count percentage to be, at the very least, concerning to me and a potential indicator of potential quality control issues related to either production and/or components.

Years ago, when I bought a C4 Corvette ZR1 (the one with the Lotus designed overhead cam motor) I was excited about the fact it was "hand built" by someone whose name was on the engine. Quite proud about it, actually. it was only some years later, when visiting the Corvette production facility I was introduced to one of the recently retired engineers there who told me that the "hand built" ZR1 motor was a nice selling point, but in reality, selected people were assembling components (like heads) which were already mass produced and that "hand built" was no guarantor of any additional engine quality or integrity. Same story with the C6 Z06 engines, which had significant valve drop failures. So there is that.

The times I have been through this before, it seems that it took 3-4 years for the manufacturer to assess and quietly respond with manufacturing changes to reduce and hopefully reduce the problems. They all followed the same routine, harvest the failed engines from the dealer, have them shipped back to the company, replace the customer's engine.

I suspect that somewhere during the 2018 production run, Ford applied these changes and hopefully resolve the issue(s). We can continue to speculate forever why this is happening, but the unvarnished truth is that we most likely never really know. If a Ford "deep throat" comes forward, or someone wants to undergo the legalistic hell of trying to sue the corporation (like some frustrated C7 Z06 owners are trying to do), we will never know.

This is just how it is whether it is GM, Porsche, Ford, etc.

Again, thanks to the many folks who have reached out privately to me regarding this modest exercise.

Thanks for taking the time to write this and track the data. I posted a few weeks ago about my engine failure - so I am part of the data. Engine out and a new one in over a weeks time. I am hopeful #2 has the fix. I will keep everyone informed. It would be very interesting to have a thread on folks with engine #2 to track failure rates or lack of. Thanks again-

Tony

 

[17RubyShelbyGT350]

Two members have had two engine replacements. Each occurrence was counted as a separate event.

 

[firestarter2]

I recently checked back here and saw two additional reports of engine failures which necessitate Ford replacement. This will be my final report for this statistical exercise. Please see my prior posts re the background pertaining to how this was done and why this was done.

I have rechecked member's data and have increased the membership count from N=303 to N=305. With the addition of two additional engine failures requiring replacement, the frequency count of failures rises to 24, resulting in a failure rate 0f 7.8% for the data set of forum members.

This is the only data set I have access to which contains a few hundred of these cars. I have been asked about the possibility of sample bias. Before answering that, let's first define what it is. Sample bias occurs when within a given sample, data is collected in a way where some members of the measured population that should have been included, are not included , thus rendering the population not representative. Sample bias may be the result of either intentional or unintentional actions of the persons conducting the study.

Since I own one of these cars, I have no reason to bias the available data, rather just the opposite, given my personal financial investment. And, what about unintentional bias? My take is that members here cross all ages, geographical areas, model years, R's and non-R's, people who only use on the street versus either occasional or heavy track use. So it would appear to be a diverse population.

I do not know if the sample size is mathematically "statistically significant" and I have stated such throughout the study. Given that, I find the frequency count percentage to be, at the very least, concerning to me and a potential indicator of potential quality control issues related to either production and/or components.

Years ago, when I bought a C4 Corvette ZR1 (the one with the Lotus designed overhead cam motor) I was excited about the fact it was "hand built" by someone whose name was on the engine. Quite proud about it, actually. it was only some years later, when visiting the Corvette production facility I was introduced to one of the recently retired engineers there who told me that the "hand built" ZR1 motor was a nice selling point, but in reality, selected people were assembling components (like heads) which were already mass produced and that "hand built" was no guarantor of any additional engine quality or integrity. Same story with the C6 Z06 engines, which had significant valve drop failures. So there is that.

The times I have been through this before, it seems that it took 3-4 years for the manufacturer to assess and quietly respond with manufacturing changes to reduce and hopefully reduce the problems. They all followed the same routine, harvest the failed engines from the dealer, have them shipped back to the company, replace the customer's engine.

I suspect that somewhere during the 2018 production run, Ford applied these changes and hopefully resolve the issue(s). We can continue to speculate forever why this is happening, but the unvarnished truth is that we most likely never really know. If a Ford "deep throat" comes forward, or someone wants to undergo the legalistic hell of trying to sue the corporation (like some frustrated C7 Z06 owners are trying to do), we will never know.

This is just how it is whether it is GM, Porsche, Ford, etc.

Again, thanks to the many folks who have reached out privately to me regarding this modest exercise.

I would suspect that people with a problem would be more likely to find a forum to complain about it. That's the bias I would be concerned about. My second concern would be user error on a car that you can not just turn the key on. Thanks for the effort

 

[S550VIN54]

I recently checked back here and saw two additional reports of engine failures which necessitate Ford replacement. This will be my final report for this statistical exercise. Please see my prior posts re the background pertaining to how this was done and why this was done.

I have rechecked member's data and have increased the membership count from N=303 to N=305. With the addition of two additional engine failures requiring replacement, the frequency count of failures rises to 24, resulting in a failure rate 0f 7.8% for the data set of forum members.

This is the only data set I have access to which contains a few hundred of these cars. I have been asked about the possibility of sample bias. Before answering that, let's first define what it is. Sample bias occurs when within a given sample, data is collected in a way where some members of the measured population that should have been included, are not included , thus rendering the population not representative. Sample bias may be the result of either intentional or unintentional actions of the persons conducting the study.

Since I own one of these cars, I have no reason to bias the available data, rather just the opposite, given my personal financial investment. And, what about unintentional bias? My take is that members here cross all ages, geographical areas, model years, R's and non-R's, people who only use on the street versus either occasional or heavy track use. So it would appear to be a diverse population.

I do not know if the sample size is mathematically "statistically significant" and I have stated such throughout the study. Given that, I find the frequency count percentage to be, at the very least, concerning to me and a potential indicator of potential quality control issues related to either production and/or components.

Years ago, when I bought a C4 Corvette ZR1 (the one with the Lotus designed overhead cam motor) I was excited about the fact it was "hand built" by someone whose name was on the engine. Quite proud about it, actually. it was only some years later, when visiting the Corvette production facility I was introduced to one of the recently retired engineers there who told me that the "hand built" ZR1 motor was a nice selling point, but in reality, selected people were assembling components (like heads) which were already mass produced and that "hand built" was no guarantor of any additional engine quality or integrity. Same story with the C6 Z06 engines, which had significant valve drop failures. So there is that.

The times I have been through this before, it seems that it took 3-4 years for the manufacturer to assess and quietly respond with manufacturing changes to reduce and hopefully reduce the problems. They all followed the same routine, harvest the failed engines from the dealer, have them shipped back to the company, replace the customer's engine.

I suspect that somewhere during the 2018 production run, Ford applied these changes and hopefully resolve the issue(s). We can continue to speculate forever why this is happening, but the unvarnished truth is that we most likely never really know. If a Ford "deep throat" comes forward, or someone wants to undergo the legalistic hell of trying to sue the corporation (like some frustrated C7 Z06 owners are trying to do), we will never know.

This is just how it is whether it is GM, Porsche, Ford, etc.

Again, thanks to the many folks who have reached out privately to me regarding this modest exercise.

Many thanks to you for putting forth the effort!:cheers:

I started this thread as a tool that I thought would help all of us learn if there are anomalies with the voodoo engine and not a social bashing against Ford or forum members. So I hope going forward this thread will become more resourceful and help each other with the issues we are seeing from happening or at least understand why they are happening to educate others. In the end, this can have a very positive outcome!

I truly enjoy my car!!!

 

[Caballus]

I would suspect that people with a problem would be more likely to find a forum to complain about it. That's the bias I would be concerned about. My second concern would be user error on a car that you can not just turn the key on. Thanks for the effort

Good points. How does concern #2 apply to other pony and muscle cars (Camero, Charger/Challenger, etc)?

 

[300blackout]

Hello everyone. I'm new here. I joined this forum because I'm planning on purchasing a 2019 R. I'm currently driving an AMG GTS, which I intend to keep as a second vehicle.

Regarding this issue, I'm hoping Ford would have the problem resolved by 2018-19 models. I believe that if Ford hadn't figured out the problem they would have ended the production of gt350 models with 2018, rather than announcing production run for another year.

 

[ClayDee]

Any speculation on what may have been changed or upgraded in the motors for the 18 MY? Or, is it the 19's that are likely to get upgraded if anything was changed internally.

 

[tlisotta]

Hello everyone. I'm new here. I joined this forum because I'm planning on purchasing a 2019 R. I'm currently driving an AMG GTS, which I intend to keep as a second vehicle.

Regarding this issue, I'm hoping Ford would have the problem resolved by 2018-19 models. I believe that if Ford hadn't figured out the problem they would have ended the production of gt350 models with 2018, rather than announcing production run for another year.

Originally Posted by ClayDee
Any speculation on what may have been changed or upgraded in the motors for the 18 MY? Or, is it the 19's that are likely to get upgraded if anything was changed internally.[/QUOTE]

No one will ever know or it will be an admission of fault - hence, a recall. I am one of the ones that had a second engine put in recently on a 2017 a few weeks ago. Time will tell on the new one. You would think with the announcement of the 2019 they have figured it out but it is all speculation.

 

[ClayDee]

Originally Posted by ClayDee
Any speculation on what may have been changed or upgraded in the motors for the 18 MY? Or, is it the 19's that are likely to get upgraded if anything was changed internally.

No one will ever know or it will be an admission of fault - hence, a recall. I am one of the ones that had a second engine put in recently on a 2017 a few weeks ago. Time will tell on the new one. You would think with the announcement of the 2019 they have figured it out but it is all speculation.[/QUOTE]

Yea, no sense in worrying about it. Maybe one day a credible person will leak what the issue is.....