Release date?

[ort895]

Has anybody heard or read any rumors of when Ford might be releasing the specs on the next gen of engines? I myself will be getting the I4 and i've been waiting patiently but it seems like they are really holding onto their numbers.
Is it to stay on top of their competitors? or are they still trying to squeeze more out of the engines?

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[Mriley]

There's at least 3 threads on this topic in the general section. I would check jarstang's post in this thread.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php/mustang-worlds-fair-1630.html

According to this the specs should be released within a few weeks and they were still finalizing order guides. I'm sure the I4 specs are highly anticipated as the 2.3 is debuting in the new Mustang. If they can get it right I'm sure they will be swaying a lot of cross shoppers.

 

[S550Boss]

What competitors are those? For a 4-cylinder pony car type of vehicle there aren't any that will have over 300 HP and huge torque.
The nearest might be the Genesis Coupe, but that only has 274 HP and it's performance model is the V-6 at 348 HP. So the EB Mustang is above the low-end engine there, but below their high-end V-6 in HP (but makes more torque).
If you have to have a 4-cylinder, a 3- or 4-series BMW would have far better quality and resale, but not the torque or HP. On numbers alone, the 335i would be similar to the Mustang's EB 4, but in the real world would have far better performance.
Something like an STi is a nice all-around car, but it isn't a competitor to this.

 

[M.Senger]

What competitors are those? For a 4-cylilnder pony car type of vehicle there aren't any that will have over 300 HP and huge torque.
The nearest might be the Genesis Coupe, but that only has 274 HP and it's performance model is the V-6 at 348 HP. So the EB Mustang is above the low-end engine there, but below their high-end V-6 in HP (but makes more torque).
If you have to have a 4-cylinder, a 3- or 4-series BMW would have far better quality and resale, but not the torque or HP. On numbers alone, the 335i would be similar to the Mustang's EB 4, but in the real world would have far better performance.
Something like an STi is a nice all-around car, but it isn't a competitor to this.

Mercedes A 45 AMG and CLA 45 AMG have 360 hp from 2L Turbo but their price tag around $45 000 is nowhere near the EB Mustang. I think Mustang 2.0T will have amaizing power/price ratio.

BMW 335i is inline 6 cyl. with twinscroll turbo. It is a great engine but I think it won't be able to compete with V8 Mustang GT.

Anyway 6 cyl with supercharger or turbo can be a beast. Take Mercedes C32 AMG for example, with tuned ECU, custom exhaust and pulley it goes like insane. I think mustang knows that 3.5-3.7L V6 with SC or turbo or even Twin Turbo can easly outpreform GT with V8 so they don't want to do this.

[ame]

 

[S550Boss]

Yes but the idea of the original poster was a competitor to the EB Mustang. That's a 4-cylinder rear-wheel-drive coupe.
While the Mercedes has a higher performing engine by far over the Mustang EB, it isn't in the same competitive or cost class.
And while the 335i would be eclipsed by a Coyote Mustang, my only point in bringing it up was that 320HP and 300 tq is similar to what some people expect the EB Mustang to produce. But the 335i is still superior in so many other ways to a Mustang while costing considerably more.
One possible competitor is a new Z in a few years... that's thought to be a unnaturally aspirated 4 - but nobody knows yet. You may have seen Jay Leno visit the design studio several months ago, where silhouettes of the new car (and preceding cars in order) were visible on the all behind him. Which looked much more like a 240Z than the current Z.

 

[M.Senger]

Yes but the idea of the original poster was a competitor to the EB Mustang. That's a 4-cylinder rear-wheel-drive coupe.
While the Mercedes has a higher performing engine by far over the Mustang EB, it isn't in the same competitive or cost class.
And while the 335i would be eclipsed by a Coyote Mustang, my only point in bringing it up was that 320HP and 300 tq is similar to what some people expect the EB Mustang to produce. But the 335i is still superior in so many other ways to a Mustang while costing considerably more.

Yes, there is no other 4 cyl. turbo Coupe that can compete with 2.3L EB Mustang. The competition is less powerfull, more expensive or both.

435i is no that far superior. I like BMW but 435i is electric steering. Most people say that E92 335i is better than 435i in feeling the car on the wheel. The interior is well made but come on... it's plastic everywhere! I would like to see leather on the dashboard. For that money it should have it!

And the 335i/435i engine... well it's nothing left there to do. People who tune this engine in E90/E92 can't get easly beyond 400 HP. You can ECU tune it for around 360HP but then you will have problems with overheating. For going in around 400HP you need better cooling system, custom intake, custom exhaust, ECU tune. I think that BMW will need to make new engine or new cooling system, intake, exhaust and new head/cams and turbo for going around 420 HP. Ford is already making 3.5L TT ecoboost V6 with 370HP. I think Ford now can really make V6 EB Mustang that will outpreform BMW 435i easly.

 

[S550Boss]

The 3- and 4-series have other attributes to put it over the Mustang in some minds, including quality, as well as the image and the resale value. I'm not personally advocating them, just looking at it from an industry analyst point of view. I'd be happier in the right Mustang, especially now that it's finally moved out of the stone age suspension it's had for too long. And of course the M3/M4 is absurdly priced and each generation moves closer to 100k.

Yes, I've seen a lot of issues with the 235/335/435 engine on the track. We immediately saw that in track events when they originally came out. We will probably see those same issues with the Ford EB 2.3 (as we already see in the EB2.0). As to the 3.5EB, I wanted to see further development of that and see it offered as an option in the Mustang... but it's not to be, at least for now. That's a real shame.

 

[M.Senger]

The 3- and 4-series have other attributes to put it over the Mustang in some minds, including quality, as well as the image and the resale value. I'm not personally advocating them, just looking at it from an industry analyst point of view. I'd be happier in the right Mustang, especially now that it's finally moved out of the stone age suspension it's had for too long. And of course the M3/M4 is absurdly priced and each generation moves closer to 100k.

Yes, I've seen a lot of issues with the 235/335/435 engine on the track. We immediately saw that in track events when they originally came out. We will probably see those same issues with the Ford EB 2.3 (as we already see in the EB2.0). As to the 3.5EB, I wanted to see further development of that and see it offered as an option in the Mustang... but it's not to be, at least for now. That's a real shame.

Yeah people will buy BMW because it's BMW. It's a German luxury car that is realiable - that's how most people look at it. Ford doesn't have that brand perception.

I was waiting for Cadillac ATS-V with 425HP TT V6 but it's still not confirmed that it's coming.

 

[S550Boss]

The Caddy TT V-6 as it stands in the CTS Vspec (since we don't know what changes to make it into a ATS-V), has some interesting architectural advantages over the EB 3.5, particularly in a larger volume intake and with 2 cooling cores (Ford has one). I hope that it's a benchmark target for Ford. See more here, including two very cool Cadillac engine development videos: http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec-blog/?p=15648
That said, in the early tests of the CTS Vspec, there were some heat soak issues reported. It will be interesting to see what changes occur for the ATS-V, which is shaping up to be a really terrific vehicle. I've had track time in the current CTS-V and it's very clear that the engineers have done a heckuva job.

I haven't found a CTS Vspec yet to drive hard on a track, but I very much want to... I have driven an ATS 3.6 (with magnet.) on a track and am very impressed by the chassis. It'll clearly take far more HP.

Don't take me as a GM fanboy, I'm just making a technology comparison here. It's important to note that the EB3.5 was developed as a truck engine, and the Caddy TT was developed as a car engine. There are two very different paradigms there, two different kinds of performance/endurance tests, two different heat capacity tests, mileage, etc. etc.

And, yes, I know a similar EB3.5 is in the SHO, but that doesn't count because it's not a true performance vehicle, just a bloated 4368 poound luxury car. So the EB 3.5 is an unknown as a performance car engine, although I think it's ability to keep cool in very tough towing situations says a lot. And of course an externally modified and reprogrammed EB3.5 is doing very well in racing too.

 

[appledore4]

Scott Pruett is driving a 3.5 ecoboost in the United Sportscar Championship. Won in Sebring and Long Beach. I don't think Ford is doing this to sell more Taurus SHOs. I think they are developing this engine for future application in the Mustang. Much like they did with the Boss 302R. Just a guess.

 

[appledore4]

Meant to include this link:

http://www.imsa.com/drivers/scott-pruett

 

[S550Boss]

Lets hope so... and apparently (on purpose) it's stock internally. Of course it's also got dry sump and a very different intake, exhaust, turbos, and tuning.

 

[flaps]

The Caddy TT V-6 as it stands in the CTS Vspec (since we don't know what changes to make it into a ATS-V), has some interesting architectural advantages over the EB 3.5, particularly in a larger volume intake and with 2 cooling cores (Ford has one). I hope that it's a benchmark target for Ford. See more here, including two very cool Cadillac engine development videos: http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec-blog/?p=15648
That said, in the early tests of the CTS Vspec, there were some heat soak issues reported. It will be interesting to see what changes occur for the ATS-V, which is shaping up to be a really terrific vehicle. I've had track time in the current CTS-V and it's very clear that the engineers have done a heckuva job.

I haven't found a CTS Vspec yet to drive hard on a track, but I very much want to... I have driven an ATS 3.6 (with magnet.) on a track and am very impressed by the chassis. It'll clearly take far more HP.

Don't take me as a GM fanboy, I'm just making a technology comparison here. It's important to note that the EB3.5 was developed as a truck engine, and the Caddy TT was developed as a car engine. There are two very different paradigms there, two different kinds of performance/endurance tests, two different heat capacity tests, mileage, etc. etc.

And, yes, I know a similar EB3.5 is in the SHO, but that doesn't count because it's not a true performance vehicle, just a bloated 4368 poound luxury car. So the EB 3.5 is an unknown as a performance car engine, although I think it's ability to keep cool in very tough towing situations says a lot. And of course an externally modified and reprogrammed EB3.5 is doing very well in racing too.

Plus Ford ran the 3.5EB in the BAJA 1000 after beating the shit out of it in other ways and it performed fine.

 

[BugsOli]

One competitor that you might take into account is the new Audi A3 S3 with a 2.0 L4 and turbo with 300HP & 380Nm of torque.

The car is smaller than the Stang also, but by a margin.

And I love the sound of this engine!

 

[M.Senger]

It's a nice car and for 4 cyl. turbo the exhaust make nice noise but it's not a Coupe. You buy a Coupe because you want the Coupe

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