Race craft/heel toe help

[Radiation Joe]

I agree it is not of 'much' benefit in a car with syncros. But it IS faster when executed well. And any improvement on track is worth the effort, especially if it improves the fun factor.

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[NeverSatisfied]

Yes, ABS will disguise a flaw to an extent, but you are then sacrificing max braking ability as the ABS computer attempts to avoid rear wheel spin and loss of control through rear brake release.

I'd particularly like to see no clutch downshifting executed off a high speed straight into a corner which requires a bit of steering wheel input during the braking zone. You're modulating the max braking input you can get away with, right on the edge of the rear end wanting to rotate, and then drop a gear and let out the clutch with no throttle input.

Having driven quite a few cars in anger at the track rain and shine, I think the S550 has one of the better ABS systems out there, but I'd like to see someone get away with covering up a non rev-matched downshift clutch release without sacrifice of control or time.

The answer to the question is Anti-lock brakes, which cover many flaws.

 

[NeverSatisfied]

I agree it is not of 'much' benefit in a car with syncros. But it IS faster when executed well. And any improvement on track is worth the effort, especially if it improves the fun factor.

If it's fun for you... have at it. But it's not faster.

 

[TeeLew]

Having driven quite a few cars in anger at the track rain and shine, I think the S550 has one of the better ABS systems out there, but I'd like to see someone get away with covering up a non rev-matched downshift clutch release without sacrifice of control or time.

I said it covers flaws. It doesn't turn you into Lewis Sennamacher.

 

[luc]

Yes, ABS will disguise a flaw to an extent, but you are then sacrificing max braking ability as the ABS computer attempts to avoid rear wheel spin and loss of control through rear brake release.

I'd particularly like to see no clutch downshifting executed off a high speed straight into a corner which requires a bit of steering wheel input during the braking zone. You're modulating the max braking input you can get away with, right on the edge of the rear end wanting to rotate, and then drop a gear and let out the clutch with no throttle input.

Having driven quite a few cars in anger at the track rain and shine, I think the S550 has one of the better ABS systems out there, but I'd like to see someone get away with covering up a non rev-matched downshift clutch release without sacrifice of control or time.

You are making it sound like you can only be a fast driver/racer if you practice h&t...that’s 100% bs
The only issue is to NOT lock the rear wheels ( without engaging abs) on a downshift
How do you think that we change gears on a race car that have a straight gears transmission in which the clutch is only used to start?????
We match the the rear wheels rpm’s, through the transmission, to the crankshaft/engine rpm’s....
No clutch used, no h&t, no blipping
On cars in which you need a clutch, I simply match my speed to the gear I want to be in and progressively release the clutch to avoid upsetting the rear end....
Today with the improvements in drive train, H&T is nothing more than one of those fake symbols of Manliness ...
And, btw, if you are not a paid professional racer, driving 10/10 is stupid
Always leave a bit of room for mistakes.
To Winn a race you first need to finish it

 

[shogun32]

Double clutching is for non synchronized transmissions. As used in most race cars.

I don't know, seems sequential transmissions are the default these days. Maybe NASCAR uses antique technology - they barely use a shifter anyway.

but I'd like to see someone get away with covering up a non rev-matched downshift clutch release without sacrifice of control or time.

You're supposed to EEEEAAASSSEEE into the friction zone and hold it there till engine or wheel speeds adjust to match. If you just dump the clutch, then your technique blows and I can see how double-clutching will help reduce the shaft speed mismatch. I blip the throttle so at least it's close before easing the clutch out.

 

[Grintch]

Sequential and syncro have nothing to do with each other. In fact racing sequential transmissions are not sychronized. Just like the old fashioned H pattern NASCAR gearboxes are not synchronized.

Now the early single clutch street sequential gearboxes were synchronized. So synchro or not has nothing to do with sequential or not.

 

[shogun32]

Sequential and syncro have nothing to do with each other.

Yes I'm quite cognizant of the differences. Watching IMSA and Super8 the transmissions appear to be largely sequential. Ditto WRC.

 

[Elp_jc]

All you need with our Mustangs is a good (or perfect) rev-matched throttle-blip, and smoothly release the clutch completely when the rpm is where it needs to be. The correct progression for newbies should be this, IMO:
1. Turn rev-match on, and first learn how to modulate the clutch to make downshifts perfectly smooth. This should be relatively easy to accomplish. If you can't even do that, no sense in moving to the next step. First master that step.
2. Practice throttle-blip rev-matching when slowing down, meaning without touching the brakes. Problem with this step is the numerous drive modes, which alter the throttle mapping. In order to not take forever to master this step, it has to be done in just ONE mode, and always use that mode.
3. Start practicing when applying the brakes. Just like with different drive modes, depending how hard the brakes are applied, you'd have to rotate your ankle less and less, making smooth throttle-blip rev-matched downshifts at every possible brake pedal position almost impossible IMO. Too many variables. But I guess some folks might be able to master them in every possible combination. Haven't met anybody like that yet .

 

[Grintch]

He has a 2017. No rev match to turn on.

 

[D K]

In the beginning, yes. The pros go from full throttle to threshold braking in one, quick, swift move.

You're supposed to EEEEAAASSSEEE into the friction zone and

 

[D K]

Exactly!

It doesn't matter what type of transmission you run, or what type of shifter - not heel and toeing is never better than heel/toe.

Sequential and syncro have nothing to do with each other. In fact racing sequential transmissions are not sychronized. Just like the old fashioned H pattern NASCAR gearboxes are not synchronized.

Now the early single clutch street sequential gearboxes were synchronized. So synchro or not has nothing to do with sequential or not.

 

[luc]

Exactly!

It doesn't matter what type of transmission you run, or what type of shifter - not heel and toeing is never better than heel/toe.

Nor it’s worst

 

[luc]

In the beginning, yes. The pros go from full throttle to threshold braking in one, quick, swift move.

How much racing experience do you have?
Many cars that I have raced required clutch less upshift and downshift. All straight gears boxes

 

[D K]

I have a shelf full of trophies, why?

And I can't think of a transmission that 'requires' a clutch less shift.

Maybe you meant to say 'enabled' ?

Anyway, this conversation is drifting off topic.

Back to heel and toe.

How much racing experience do you have?
Many cars that I have raced required clutch less upshift and downshift. All straight gears boxes

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