Power Pack 3 vs custom tune?

[HextallS550]

I know what they are and how they are made. I've spent a few years tuning Zetec engines with SCT. I'm just asking a simple question in the performance difference.

Which is why I asked street car or track car? For the street you won't notice a difference except it will work just like the factory intended. At the track where you want every last bit of top end power a custom calibration will suit you better. But no matter how good aftermarket tooners are they still can't touch the people at the OE level.

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[UAmach1]

Which is why I asked street car or track car? For the street you won't notice a difference except it will work just like the factory intended. At the track where you want every last bit of top end power a custom calibration will suit you better. But no matter how good aftermarket tooners are they still can't touch the people at the OE level.

It doesn't matter where it's driven, when the question is asking about seeing differences in a dyno the question is clearly: is there a noticeable power difference between the two.

Also "tooners" is a really stupid word.

 

[HextallS550]

It doesn't matter where it's driven, when the question is asking about seeing differences in a dyno the question is clearly: is there a noticeable power difference between the two.

Also "tooners" is a really stupid word.

Actually it does. But hell, you're apparently smarter than those of us who write calibrations at the OE level for a living. I'm sure you'll get the answer you wanted.

 

[UAmach1]

Actually it does. But hell, you're apparently smarter than those of us who write calibrations at the OE level for a living. I'm sure you'll get the answer you wanted.

When the question is will one make higher number on a dyno.... No... It doesn't. It's a simple Yes or No question.

Also for "OE Level" I've seen Ford REALLY fuck over people with PCM updates that actually make MPG noticeably worse and cut nearly 18% of the WHP from a car. So "OE Level" means 0 to me.

 

[re-rx7]

When the question is will one make higher number on a dyno.... No... It doesn't. It's a simple Yes or No question.

Also for "OE Level" I've seen Ford REALLY fuck over people with PCM updates that actually make MPG noticeably worse and cut nearly 18% of the WHP from a car. So "OE Level" means 0 to me.

Damn 18%. Not 17% or 19%. Thats crazy:headbonk:

 

[UAmach1]

Damn 18%. Not 17% or 19%. Thats crazy:headbonk:

Actually yes. If you bought a ZX2 S/R or the ZX2 Ford Racing PCM from Ford you would dyno about 125WHP/128WTQ. If you let Ford perform an "emissions update" while you had it in the shop you would only dyno about 103WHP/108WTQ. That's a big change for a car that only weighs 2500lbs. On top of that your MPG would drop. A Non-Ford Racing ECU made 115whp.. until Ford made an "emissions update" for that version also. A 5 spd now only made 5WHP more than an automatic.

We found it out when I strapped my car to a dyno and did 3 runs with a non-updated ECU then 3 runs with an updated one, that previously had been run on that same dyno before the flash and made good numbers.

So not only did Ford sell a performance package and then remove the added power it was promised with, they actually made it SLOWER than the normal car. They also made the fact you spent $400 on a Ford Racing ECU a total waste of money. By the time Ford got done with the ZX2's PCM update not only did none of the cars make advertised power but also didn't make advertised MPG. Since this was after they stopped selling the car as new though they didn't care.

If you pulled up the pre and post update ECU in a SCT Pro Race package it's drastically different. As in 18* timing down to 11* drastic, and A/F ratio into the 11's. I probably threw out my dynos from then, but if I can find it I'll post it.


That is why I feel "OE Level" is just horse shit and have no reason to expect Ford's provided tune to be very good.


NINJA EDIT: Just to clarify I'm not trying to say that [MENTION=28081]HextallS550[/MENTION] does not himself do top quality work, just explaining why I don't view Fords in-house tuning as any better than a well known tuners.

 

[stevnoof1]

With ford calibration I ran 12.6 at 111-112 consistently. With flex fuel tune and e85 running 12.0 at 115-116.

 

[JustinReed]

Actually yes. If you bought a ZX2 S/R or the ZX2 Ford Racing PCM from Ford you would dyno about 125WHP/128WTQ. If you let Ford perform an "emissions update" while you had it in the shop you would only dyno about 103WHP/108WTQ. That's a big change for a car that only weighs 2500lbs. On top of that your MPG would drop. A Non-Ford Racing ECU made 115whp.. until Ford made an "emissions update" for that version also. A 5 spd now only made 5WHP more than an automatic.

We found it out when I strapped my car to a dyno and did 3 runs with a non-updated ECU then 3 runs with an updated one, that previously had been run on that same dyno before the flash and made good numbers.

So not only did Ford sell a performance package and then remove the added power it was promised with, they actually made it SLOWER than the normal car. They also made the fact you spent $400 on a Ford Racing ECU a total waste of money. By the time Ford got done with the ZX2's PCM update not only did none of the cars make advertised power but also didn't make advertised MPG. Since this was after they stopped selling the car as new though they didn't care.

If you pulled up the pre and post update ECU in a SCT Pro Race package it's drastically different. As in 18* timing down to 11* drastic, and A/F ratio into the 11's. I probably threw out my dynos from then, but if I can find it I'll post it.


That is why I feel "OE Level" is just horse shit and have no reason to expect Ford's provided tune to be very good.


NINJA EDIT: Just to clarify I'm not trying to say that [MENTION=28081]HextallS550[/MENTION] does not himself do top quality work, just explaining why I don't view Fords in-house tuning as any better than a well known tuners.

I might be able to give you the answer you’re looking for in a couple of weeks, I have the PP3 installed on my car right now, going to get a dyno tune as soon as my wheels come in (which should hopefully be a week or two), my tuner said he would give me a before & after read out. I’ll see if he can give me an “after” read out before he puts e85 in the tank, then a read out after the e85 is in.

I know you only want the difference in PP3 dyno numbers compared to dyno tuned numbers. I’ll look for this thread after the tune is in.

 

[UAmach1]

Thanks. I'll look for a tread from you too.

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