Port Injection

[Ecto1]

So I've been trying to decide if I should upgrade to the NX2 turbo and reach for 400ish HP when I stumbled over the Port Injection Kits. I assumed these were only for pushing power above 400HP AFTER upgrading the turbo. But ... on the TunePlus webpage for the Port Injection kit it claims "up to 380 wHP" on the "Stock Turbo Mustang". With "full bolt-ons". I assume this means the stock engine & turbo plus (FBOs?) aftermarket intercooler, charge pipes, CAI, custom tune, etc. I inquired and was informed that this level of power is possible on the stock engine & turbo on 93 octane pump gas.

https://www.tuneplusinc.com/products/tune-e85-conversion-port-injection-kit

Has anyone gone down this rabbit hole yet? I've seen posts regarding methanol injection & E85 on upgraded turbos & "built" engines for 500+ HP but none for a stock system plus 93 octane port injection. I don't want a track car & I don't have E85, etc available where I live. I just want a street car that I can have a little more fun with. If I can get to 380ish wheel HP with a port injection kit, basic upgrades, & a tune this sounds VERY appealing. A little less $$$$ than the NX2 and just below the limits of the stock block (I hope, anyway).

Thanks.

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[Coyote Chase]

So I've been trying to decide if I should upgrade to the NX2 turbo and reach for 400ish HP when I stumbled over the Port Injection Kits. I assumed these were only for pushing power above 400HP AFTER upgrading the turbo. But ... on the TunePlus webpage for the Port Injection kit it claims "up to 380 wHP" on the "Stock Turbo Mustang". With "full bolt-ons". I assume this means the stock engine & turbo plus (FBOs?) aftermarket intercooler, charge pipes, CAI, custom tune, etc. I inquired and was informed that this level of power is possible on the stock engine & turbo on 93 octane pump gas.

https://www.tuneplusinc.com/products/tune-e85-conversion-port-injection-kit

Has anyone gone down this rabbit hole yet? I've seen posts regarding methanol injection & E85 on upgraded turbos & "built" engines for 500+ HP but none for a stock system plus 93 octane port injection. I don't want a track car & I don't have E85, etc available where I live. I just want a street car that I can have a little more fun with. If I can get to 380ish wheel HP with a port injection kit, basic upgrades, & a tune this sounds VERY appealing. A little less $$$$ than the NX2 and just below the limits of the stock block (I hope, anyway).

Thanks.

Yep! With the port injection and E85 tune, I'm pushing maybe 380 calculated crankshaft horsepower, not wheel horsepower. I don't see a stock long block with the stock turbocharger, on 93 octane pump gas, producing much more than 350 to 375 crankshaft horsepower.

 

[junits15]

Port injection is very common in ecoboost circles.

Please for the love of god make sure your connections are secure, if you lose a coil pack or the map sensor or something like that your PI will shut down

really you need ethanol to get more power, if you only have 93 I’d go for WMI

 

[TeeLew]

Yep! With the port injection and E85 tune, I'm pushing maybe 380 calculated crankshaft horsepower, not wheel horsepower. I don't see a stock long block with the stock turbocharger, on 93 octane pump gas, producing much more than 350 to 375 crankshaft horsepower.

So you put port injection on a car for 5-30 HP? What am I missing? Further, those numbers seem correct at the wheel, not crank.

 

[Ecto1]

Thanks. I was looking at the SP63 & FFPerformance Port Injection kits with "Plug & Play" connections to the coil packs. They look like the better choice for a street car. The port injection kits look like a relatively simple mod. A lot simpler than the NX2 install. Also seems like it might make a nice performance boost within the max limits of the stock block.

I was hoping for closer to 400 wheel HP on pump gas (93). If 375 ish is crank HP on 93 octane with the PI kit then the wheel HP is probably closer to 325. Does that sound correct? If so the COBB stage 2 tune (or a custom equivalent tune) claims 320ish HP at the wheels. This is without port injection. So maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here.

Oh. Maybe I misunderstand this Ecoboost max 400 HP business altogether... There's lots of claims that 400 HP is the max safe limit on the stock Ecoboost engine. I thought I read that the 400 HP limit was at the wheels. But is this really the limit at the crank? If so, then the max safe limit at the wheels is less than 350 HP. That's a lot lower than I was gunning for.

If 350 ish HP is the max that I can safely push at the wheels on the stock block then the Ecoboost is the wrong engine for me. Bummer.

 

[Coyote Chase]

Thanks. I was looking at the SP63 & FFPerformance Port Injection kits with "Plug & Play" connections to the coil packs. They look like the better choice for a street car. The port injection kits look like a relatively simple mod. A lot simpler than the NX2 install. Also seems like it might make a nice performance boost within the max limits of the stock block.

I was hoping for closer to 400 wheel HP on pump gas (93). If 375 ish is crank HP on 93 octane with the PI kit then the wheel HP is probably closer to 325. Does that sound correct? If so the COBB stage 2 tune (or a custom equivalent tune) claims 320ish HP at the wheels. This is without port injection. So maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here.

Oh. Maybe I misunderstand this Ecoboost max 400 HP business altogether... There's lots of claims that 400 HP is the max safe limit on the stock Ecoboost engine. I thought I read that the 400 HP limit was at the wheels. But is this really the limit at the crank? If so, then the max safe limit at the wheels is less than 350 HP. That's a lot lower than I was gunning for.

If 350 ish HP is the max that I can safely push at the wheels on the stock block then the Ecoboost is the wrong engine for me. Bummer.

The factory uses crankshaft horsepower and that's also what I prefer. I use an online calculator via Wallace Racing and data collected from my 1/4 mile track runs, plus an adjustment for DA conditions.
I use, what I call CCHP to track my own progress. It's not for everyone, but it works for me...
You can put together a 12 second Ecoboost Mustang that runs on pump gas and can still be street driven for very little money. But, if you want to run 11s on the 1/4 mile, I'd recommend an exotic fuel, like VP X85 and an aftermarket Turbocharger, like the NX2.

 

[Coyote Chase]

So you put port injection on a car for 5-30 HP? What am I missing? Further, those numbers seem correct at the wheel, not crank.

I ask the same question, everytime I look at my time slip!??
But, I'm not letting it all hang out at the track... yet. I still need to change my Turbocharger and rear end gearing. Then the numbers will start climbing. Current goal is to keep everything together.

 

[tdstuart]

Thanks. I was looking at the SP63 & FFPerformance Port Injection kits with "Plug & Play" connections to the coil packs. They look like the better choice for a street car. The port injection kits look like a relatively simple mod. A lot simpler than the NX2 install. Also seems like it might make a nice performance boost within the max limits of the stock block.

I was hoping for closer to 400 wheel HP on pump gas (93). If 375 ish is crank HP on 93 octane with the PI kit then the wheel HP is probably closer to 325. Does that sound correct? If so the COBB stage 2 tune (or a custom equivalent tune) claims 320ish HP at the wheels. This is without port injection. So maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here.

Oh. Maybe I misunderstand this Ecoboost max 400 HP business altogether... There's lots of claims that 400 HP is the max safe limit on the stock Ecoboost engine. I thought I read that the 400 HP limit was at the wheels. But is this really the limit at the crank? If so, then the max safe limit at the wheels is less than 350 HP. That's a lot lower than I was gunning for.

If 350 ish HP is the max that I can safely push at the wheels on the stock block then the Ecoboost is the wrong engine for me. Bummer.

Ya, there is a reason people call it the ecoboom. Once you start approaching 400whp, your engine will quickly go. Seen multiple people on TikTok flex their ecoboosts beating gts, then a few weeks later posting that their engine blew up.

Wish the EcoBoost could be a cool alternative tuner car, but unfortunately, it just doesn't make much power safely.

 

[Ecto1]

Well ... Reality cramps. Yuck. Sounds like the only sane solution for me is to replace the car with a late model GT instead of pouring money into the Ecoboost. Too bad. It's a nice little car and has much to recommend it. But unfortunately it has less potential for bolt on performance than I had hoped to achieve. D&mn!

Thanks for setting me straight.

 

[Slopoke]

Aux fuel with a stock turbo is useless. Best bang for the buck is running an E40 tune. Aux fuel comes into play when your engine outstrips the stock DI fuel system. I had a 2018 Fiesta ST and the first hybrid turbo maxed the stock fuel system at 280 whp on E40. Added a 4 port system and revised tune got 296 whp and that was because I was now at the limits of the turbo. I put on a Garrett GTX2860R turbo on it and got 330whp. I could have gone more, but I wanted a balance of power and reliability

An acquaintance of mine has the same turbo and aux fuel system and is putting out 400ish whp. She figures she can go higher, but doesn't want to push it. She drives it hard all the time and it's still running fine. Both of us were tuned by Adam at Tune Plus.

Options to port fuel, is bigger DI injectors combined with a bigger HP fuel pump. If you go hog wild, you will need to upgrade the stock LP fuel pump in the basket.

 

[tdstuart]

Well ... Reality cramps. Yuck. Sounds like the only sane solution for me is to replace the car with a late model GT instead of pouring money into the Ecoboost. Too bad. It's a nice little car and has much to recommend it. But unfortunately it has less potential for bolt on performance than I had hoped to achieve. D&mn!

Thanks for setting me straight.

Sounds like you need to decide what your power goals are.

Building a ecoboost and throwing tons of boost at it is totally an option.

You could also buy a GT, spend ~$7k in mods and have a supercharged 650whp reliable car.

N/A gen2 mustangs FBO can make around 450whp on e85. Gen 3 N/A cars can make 480-500whp depending on who you ask and what dyno it’s on.

FBO N/A Gen3 car with the 10r80 is a killer setup. Seen some on YouTube keep up with hellcats.

When you boost a coyote you can run 800whp safely on stock block (as long as you have a good tune).

Also depends on how involved you want to be in the build.

 

[TeeLew]

Ya, there is a reason people call it the ecoboom. Once you start approaching 400whp, your engine will quickly go. Seen multiple people on TikTok flex their ecoboosts beating gts, then a few weeks later posting that their engine blew up.

Wish the EcoBoost could be a cool alternative tuner car, but unfortunately, it just doesn't make much power safely.

Yes and no.

The stock Eco's have an open deck block, which is good to about 425 HP/400lbft if tuned by someone who knows what they're doing. The open decks are fragile, though, so it does not put up with knock and it will blow the sh 1t out of the #3 cylinder wall if you're foolish. Anyone can buy a tuner and play stupid tuning tricks. That's the majority of the ecoboom.

However, if you use a pro built 2.0 closed deck block, now you've got a closed deck block which is significantly stronger and rods that won't bend, so this changes the game. 5-600 HP in daily form is entirely reasonable. I'm aware of one car over 800 HP and several over 700. All things considered, it's pretty impressive.

 

[tdstuart]

Yes and no.

The stock Eco's have an open deck block, which is good to about 425 HP/400lbft if tuned by someone who knows what they're doing. The open decks are fragile, though, so it does not put up with knock and it will blow the sh 1t out of the #3 cylinder wall if you're foolish. Anyone can buy a tuner and play stupid tuning tricks. That's the majority of the ecoboom.

However, if you use a pro built 2.0 closed deck block, now you've got a closed deck block which is significantly stronger and rods that won't bend, so this changes the game. 5-600 HP in daily form is entirely reasonable. I'm aware of one car over 800 HP and several over 700. All things considered, it's pretty impressive.

Built blocks are totally different.

But the stock block can’t handle much hp unfortunately. Anyone who wants to make power will have to pull their motor and put in a built block.

 

[TeeLew]

"Not much power" isn't fair. 425 HP at the wheels is plenty frisky for a daily. That's more power than basically any Mustang before 2015. They have perfect manners, good mileage and they're inexpensive to boot. You can do a lot worse than an Eco.

 

[Ecto1]

tdstuart ... you are correct: I need to figure out what my goals are. I think I know. The problem came up when I was trying to figure out how to get to 400 wheel HP on the stock 2.3L. I read somewhere that 400 wheel HP was the safe limit for the stock block. But after a few emails with aftermarket performance mfgrs/e-tailers I've discovered that the 400 HP limit is actually at the crank. Even then the tuners aren't real keen on pushing 400 crank HP on the stock block. After reading some of the head gasket problems with stock engines at or near 400 crank HP I can understand why.

At 400 crank HP the max at the wheels becomes less than 350. Likely less than 340. Depending on head gasket risk I may be afraid to push as much as 325. And this is with a lot of work and as much money, if not more, than replacing the car with a late model GT. Less performance for more money doesn't make any sense to me. This makes my ecoboost performance plan crash & burn. Imagine my disappointment. My goal is durable 400 wheel HP. I'm really not interested in pushing beyond 400. 400 HP is plenty of fun for a street car. Yes, I could replace the stock block with a built 2.0 Focus engine but that's tons more money. I can't see the value. I could build my own 2.0. (Well ... maybe. Delusions of grandure not withstanding.) I won't be doin' that.

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