Ordering Basics

[Tomster]

I think this "he said she said" rumor mill is spinning this situation wildly out of proportion. Yes it'll probably be harder to get than a regular GT. But is it impossible to get at MSRP? No. There are dealers willing to sell these at MSRP, it just might be more than a 20 minute drive from your house. So it all comes down to how badly you want the car at MSRP. Many on here are laid back and don't mind waiting another year if they have to drive more than 20 minutes to take delivery of it. For those people, the good news is that Ford is building this car for 2 model years and by then the hype will likely have faded. Only time will tell how many get made and what demand ends up being. It's still far too early to tell and dealers are riding the early hype which will be quickly subsiding based on all the easily discouraged people I see on here.

Maybe we should make a new thread with a list of dealers doing MSRP deals like they did on the Shelby sub-forum. That way it'll be there in black and white. And if you're unwilling to fly-in/drive/trailer the car home from out of state, you only have yourself to blame. I'd go across the country to buy this car at MSRP if I had to, but I know I'm more obsessed than most. It's easy to place the blame on your local dealership, but if you're unwilling to do the research/leg work to get it when the opportunities are out there, you're doing this to yourself. If we all bought only from the MSRP dealers, the others would fall in line sooner I think. Just my 2 cents.

I always chuckle when I see the rotting new 2016 GT350R the dummies at my local dealer are still trying to get 10K ADM on. Some dealers are too stupid to realize waiting 3 years for a sucker to pay markup actually hurts them financially. In the meantime, they could be making 4K a car selling at MSRP, and selling as many as there's demand for.

700 to 800 total for the nation for MY19. That comes directly from my dealers zone rep. I don't think you will find MSRP or below during MY19. If you find a real allocation, please pass it along. Keep in mind some dealers would be happy to take a deposit knowing they don't have an allocation and hope they get an extra later in the model year. If you really want one of these and you find a good deal, get written verification that the order is allocated by ford.

There is a guy in the GT350 section who learned this lesson recently. A dealer took his deposit and a long time went by. Now it has been discovered there never was an allocation despite an order being placed.

There will be some markup of varying degrees for MY19, unless you have a very good friend in the business. However selling at MSRP or below leaves money on the table. Like it or not, that is the way these allocated cars go.

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[analogman]

What I see happening at Ford, as exemplified by the Mustang, is typical of what companies do with products at the end of their life cycle. It's common to jack up prices and squeeze profits along with declining unit volumes.

It's a perfect storm, of what the Ford family, Ford shareholders, and Jim Hackett all want - to maximize short term profits, and to hell with the long term. Especially after the fall in Ford's stock price under Mark Fields (probably through no fault of his), the Ford family made their priorities to Hackett clear - increase the stock price, as quickly as possible, as much as possible, by any means necessary. They want this both for their own net worths, and because shareholders demand it.

Jim Hackett is just following orders. He's not a car guy like Alan Mulally or Mark Fields were. Hackett is just a bean counter, a finance guy, perfect for the job the Ford family hired him for. I read somewhere that Ford could maximize it's profits (if not sales revenues) by just selling the F150 and discontinuing every other model. That would be OK with Hackett and the Ford family.

So, investment in the next-generation Mustang, and other non-truck, non-SUV models, gets pinched. Prices are jacked up, volumes are allowed to fall, and profits are squeezed. You have situations like the Bullitt - make a small number of units, minimize the variable manufacturing cost per unit, and maximize pricing and profits on each one. It works, but only in the short term.

Hackett doesn't care about anything beyond the short term. I'm sure his compensation package is heavily weighted to stock options and near-term stock price increases. He'll long be gone, living large somewhere tropical. It'll be interesting to see what the Ford family's exit plan is - if they start selling stock once the price goes up (which can all be publicly discovered), then we know it's game over.

It's often said in the business world (which I worked in for over 35 years) that with family businesses, the first generation makes the money, the second generation lives on it, and the third generation runs it into the ground. We might be seeing the beginnings of that play out with Ford.

Which means, hang on to your S550 Mustangs - they might be the last ones.

 

[Mustang1260]

Not be beat this to death, because we never do that on this forum....

As I noted earlier...it is just a green GT and the adm's of 5-10-20k is beyond nuts. I do need to clarify that the biggest thing about the Bullitt that makes it so special is the community that comes with the car. The Bullittheads have been a great (and fluid over the years) group over the years in supporting the car and hobby, both on the net and at shows nationwide.

Tomster- you are a long and well like member. So I want to tread lightly. I'm just not accepting of the numbers the regional manager gave out. I tried (and continue) to get the numbers of the program. My analysis is this: GT350R at about 500 per year, 12/13 Boss 302 Laguna Secas ran about 700 per year, the 15 50th Limited Edition ran 1964 for the year. Normal Boss 302s ran about 3000-3200 yr (hopefully I'm recalling numbers correctly).

Based upon my dealer search discussions I am seeing very small dealers with 0 and others with allocations of 1. BUT I'm seeing MORE cars being allocated then I did with the Boss 302 Laguna Secas and GT350Rs. The unscientific feel I'm getting seems to be a distribution along the lines of the 2012 Boss 302. About 3200 a year. Over a 2 yr run that would put them in line with the 08 (depression sales) numbers.

I wonder if Ford is doing this on a quarterly basis and maybe the regional manager was speaking of quarterly allotments?

Even at twice a yr allocations 700-800 ends up at 1400-1600 units and that puts the car under the 50th LE production run and I'm seeing/hearing about what seems like deeper market availability then the 50th LE.

But again, a highly unscientific analysis.

 

[Tomster]

Tomster- you are a long and well like member. So I want to tread lightly. I'm just not accepting of the numbers the regional manager gave out. I tried (and continue) to get the numbers of the program. My analysis is this: GT350R at about 500 per year, 12/13 Boss 302 Laguna Secas ran about 700 per year, the 15 50th Limited Edition ran 1964 for the year. Normal Boss 302s ran about 3000-3200 yr (hopefully I'm recalling numbers correctly).

Based upon my dealer search discussions I am seeing very small dealers with 0 and others with allocations of 1. BUT I'm seeing MORE cars being allocated then I did with the Boss 302 Laguna Secas and GT350Rs. The unscientific feel I'm getting seems to be a distribution along the lines of the 2012 Boss 302. About 3200 a year. Over a 2 yr run that would put them in line with the 08 (depression sales) numbers.

I wonder if Ford is doing this on a quarterly basis and maybe the regional manager was speaking of quarterly allotments?

Even at twice a yr allocations 700-800 ends up at 1400-1600 units and that puts the car under the 50th LE production run and I'm seeing/hearing about what seems like deeper market availability then the 50th LE.

But again, a highly unscientific analysis.

I appreciate that. However its not about who's right, but what's right. I am passing along the info that I have been given. My sources really don't bullshit. Now, as for the who what and why, IMHO, the GT500 delay has caused a backup and a void in the system IMHO. They extended the GT350 another model year and I feel had to introduce an interim halo car that will cause buzz and hype. Rewind to MY15 with the GT350. They built a very limited release 350 that did two things, stayed true to historical numbers from the previous 350 launch and also created demand by limiting production.

Here you have the newest (interim) halo car that will command ADMs based upon limited availability. I see the trend. However, I agree, this is just a GT with a trim package. So there you go. It is up to each individual to decide whether they want to pony up a small ADM for a car that will have a limited production. The reality of this is that there will be other model years and who knows what production numbers Ford has in store. A 5K ADM for a car that you will keep for a very long time is not a lot. As a matter of fact, I spent 5K on Xpel on one of my R's. I get it, its still 5K, but average it out over the time you have the car and its reasonable. I am not arguing for or against ADM's, but they are a fact of life unless you are somebody special or just flat out lucky.

If I were out there and affected by this latest news, I would be now trying to get one of the '18 or '19 350's at the best price I could find. I say this because I am a car guy looking for the best performance for my dollar. The ADM's have come down enough to make the 350 the bargain it was supposed to be at prices at or just below MSRP. Lets face it, the Bullitt is just a fancy GT with a limited production and a bunch of hype surrounding it. Collectability or not, it is your money and I will never tell anyone how to spend it.

Cheers :cheers:

 

[Bullitt]

I am not arguing for or against ADM's, but they are a fact of life unless you are somebody special or just flat out lucky.

Even if the production numbers are gonna be as low as your sources say, ADMs aren’t going to be at every single dealership. There’s always exceptions, that’s a fact. There are people willing to sell at MSRP. Why? For one, they sell more volume and have guaranteed sales with a waitlist of people even if it takes them a while to get enough allocations for all their demand. But second, while all the other dealers are getting blacklisted by everyone on this forum, the MSRP dealers are creating loyal customers that end up satisfied and more likely to return, Ford corporate people are pleased with the sales, all while dealers still make 4-5k selling at MSRP. Nobody is asking them to run a charity and I understand supply and demand, but these dealers (and ford) need to understand they can collectively kill a very good car simply but needlessly putting it out of reach of the people willing to pay MSRP for it. Nobody likes feeling like they’re getting ripped off with an ADM. Ford did a great job pricing the Bullitt. I’d hate to then see that ruined because they limit production, which only benefits dealers.

 

[Tomster]

^^^^ look at the gt350 and how that went.

 

[Bullitt]

^^^^ look at the gt350 and how that went.

Exactly, this thread is just a rehash of the same overreactions that were going on here: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55185

Plenty of people getting MSRP deals there. You guys should know, I see your posts in these threads from 2-3 years ago. Once the Bullitts start arriving, we can start a thread like this one, highlighting the MSRP dealers and giving them all our business: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61277&page=2

 

[Tomster]

And my point was that the hype will have to die down before you start seeing MSRP pricing. Again, you may see a few lucky people find one here and there, but that will not be the norm. Best of luck in your search.

 

[Bullitt]

And my point was that the hype will have to die down before you start seeing MSRP pricing. Again, you may see a few lucky people find one here and there, but that will not be the norm. Best of luck in your search.

Yeah, it'll all come down to just how limited it'll be. The price conversation at a lot of these dealers will change greatly if they're only getting 1 or 2 Bullitts this year, versus 4 or 5.

Personally, I already have an MSRP deal locked in with my dealer, but my situation is different than most thanks to my connections and following. So I'm set. I just want to help others find MSRP deals so that the Bullitt is actually a sales success this time and people don't just throw their hands up in the air and go buy a Shelby or Corvette instead.

 

[Tomster]

Yep, one of the few. Congrats.

 

[btown93]

I'm with [MENTION=21800]Tomster[/MENTION] on this one. I can't remember a time much worse than 2015/2016 when it came to both the GT350/R and also the Foucs RS. The best thing anyone can do is get their ducks in a row, be prepared for the hype/drama that comes along with it, and stick to your guns as far as an MSRP deal. They will be out there, but it could be frustrating in the short term. It's also possible some dealers will overplay their hand like many are still doing with GT350/R and RS, in which case, a deal might be able to be had with patience. A good read on the topic here:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/07/barks-bites-focus-rs-dead-dealers-blame/

 

[dean_acheson]

This will be like the Boss 302s and the Shelby's. If you want to be first in line, you will pay extra. If you are a bit patient the price will go down.

 

[Lawguy85]

Personally, I already have an MSRP deal locked in with my dealer, but my situation is different than most thanks to my connections and following.

I'm glad you acknowledged this Matt. Our experience and your experience will be radically different due to your platform.

Overall I think perspective is key. My dealer went from a 10k ADM on the Focus RS to a 6k discount on the last 3 on the lot. What enthusiasts want =/= what the masses want, per se. I'm personally waiting it out, if the price is right I'll get it, if not I'll get something else. Plenty of awesome enthusiast cars out right now, no need to get butthurt over an appearance package Mustang. Just my $.02

 

[w3rkn]

People....

The Mustang Bullitt is not a Ford Performance vehicle. It is not a "limited" car, it is just a car that will be in high demand, so that allocation for the first few production runs will be valued.

Again, don't listen to these doom-&-gloom posters. The bullitt is no different than a California Special in terms of production... but much easier.

Additionally, the GT350 sold how many the first year..? -VS- the Mustang Bullitt, that is expected to sell 8k cars the first year.

 

[Tomster]

People....

The Mustang Bullitt is not a Ford Performance vehicle. It is not a "limited" car, it is just a car that will be in high demand, so that allocation for the first few production runs will be valued.

Again, don't listen to these doom-&-gloom posters. The bullitt is no different than a California Special in terms of production... but much easier.

Additionally, the GT350 sold how many the first year..? -VS- the Mustang Bullitt, that is expected to sell 8k cars the first year.

If Ford is allocating the car, it may not be 100% limited, but you cant have one built unless you have an allocation. The GT350 wasn't a limited release car either, but it had an allocation process. Do you have any documentation to support your position? The dealers and reps all say otherwise.

Yes, the Bullitt is a glorified GT and the manufacturing process is nothing special, however it is an allocated car. You don't have an allocation, your car doesn't get built. Just like the GT350 and R.

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