OAR deviation concern

[CustomS550]

If you're not picking up on questionable noises then you should have nothing to worry about with a reputable tuner.

I know, however I wonder why does stage 0 only go to -0.26. while stage 1 goes to -1. I think because it starts at -0.75 I end up at -1 even though my fuel may not be -1? Does this even make any sense lol. I put all my bits on over the next week and want to make sure all is perfect before I do some better tuning

I made some normal driving logs today, seems that some of my neg timing is on down shift, and most the other neg timing is in the morning when engine is cold and the charge temps would be lower (I take it easy until I see 80C+ on Cyl head). I'll keep logging and see what the correlation is, no doubt when I get the tune they will pick it up and tune it out or accommodate safely.

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[stangs-R-me]

I know, however I wonder why does stage 0 only go to -0.26. while stage 1 goes to -1.

I noticed that on my car too.

Here is my take ... "Stage 0" is basically emulating the stock Ford Tune which will tune all the way to 93 Octane. Since you are running 91, it will not go all the way to -1.00.

I normally run Ethanol free 91 and E10 93 is also available.
I ran Stage 0 last winter for a while and saw what you were seeing so I then ran a few tanks of the E10 93 and lo and behold it eventually went up to -1.00 and stayed there when running the E10 93.

Doug

 

[FraG]

I noticed that on my car too.

Here is my take ... "Stage 0" is basically emulating the stock Ford Tune which will tune all the way to 93 Octane. Since you are running 91, it will not go all the way to -1.00.

I normally run Ethanol free 91 and E10 93 is also available.
I ran Stage 0 last winter for a while and saw what you were seeing so I then ran a few tanks of the E10 93 and lo and behold it eventually went up to -1.00 and stayed there when running the E10 93.

Doug

Sounds very plausible though I had Stage 1 93 as well which quickly went to -1. So only Stage 0 never quite made it to -1.. I did change to stage 0 after a full tank fill up and maybe that batch was poor and even the newer fuel from different station didnt have enough of a change up to get it moving past -0.26.

Anyway I think I'll try stage 0 again in the next few days, see where it goes with the current tank of gas.

 

[stangs-R-me]

Sounds very plausible though I had Stage 1 93 as well which quickly went to -1. So only Stage 0 never quite made it to -1.. I did change to stage 0 after a full tank fill up and maybe that batch was poor and even the newer fuel from different station didnt have enough of a change up to get it moving past -0.26.

Anyway I think I'll try stage 0 again in the next few days, see where it goes with the current tank of gas.

Run Stage 1 93 tune on 91 octane fuel you you will likely have the same results as running 91 on the stage 0 tune.

Run Stage 1 91 tune on 91 octane fuel and you should see -1.00 just as you see running 93 on the 93 tune.

Doug

 

[FraG]

Ive only ever run 98RON which is 93 US scale. And only the "best", so assuming I may have got a bad batch of fuel.. anyway I'll monitor it and see what the tuner says when gets his hands on it.

 

[TEXAS HEAT]

So! I've been back on the stock tune taking it easy for the last two weeks and the OAR has been stuck on -1 to -0.97 at the lowest with both 91 and 93 octane. This must be a tune issue, and that makes sense since the tuner uses an OE-like strategy except with more timing part throttle, it seems. And that, I believe, is the root cause of the pinging and reduction in the OAR. The AFR remains stoich. even with up to 10PSI during part throttle. I'm not sure how this is safe, even with a stock tune, but especially with more aggressive timing of the performance tune?? I'm used to seeing the AFR drop to a more safe and rich target of something like 12.5 at these part throttle positive pressure conditions. This is what Unleashed does, and as far as I know Tune+ to some extent. So, again, this has me thinking of either sticking to the Ford Performance tune and a stock Downpipe as I'm in love with the smoothness of the stock tune. But I will also be considering Stratified based on the recent review. The current tuner is not going back on! I'm not sure why my particular engine doesn't like the current tune, or maybe the fact is that most other users are not looking at the OAR like we are here, but are also affected?

What is really nice about the Access Port is the ability to monitor individual cylinder timing corrections. Although, I would love the idea of a set it and forget it tune, the truth is I feel more informed when I can see exactly how my engine is dealing with the fuel in the tank. I think this gives me great insight that others often overlook. The Ecoboost engine's are extremely knock limited and from the factory are set to be very sensitive, which is why the factory tune is hamstrung if it detects the fuel to be less than ideal. Implementing a more aggressive timing and boost strategy is not a one size fits all situation, it's a rather delicate balance between optimum performance and mechanical integrity. Fuel quality is everything, but virtually impossible to achieve every single time you fill up. Sometimes you get a bad batch of fuel, even from the same frequented stations. If you pay attention to the correct engine parameters, you will know if something is not right and therefore you should adjust your driving style accordingly. This will go a long way towards engine survival. I understand they're those out there that don't want to monitor things as you drive, but for me I like having the ability to do so.


I'm glad to hear that your looking at having Stratified tune your car. Alex has a lot of experience with the ecoboost platform and will tune your car with the utmost attention to detail. It's not a one day turn around between revisions, but rest assured the final result will be worth the wait. It's a slower progression, but no details are overlooked. He will also customize the driving characteristics to suit your driving style, but will do so very safely and methodically. Having said that, I still monitor engine parameters just in case I get a tank of bad fuel. When I do, I just toggle the cruise control to the low boost/bad fuel setting and ride that tank out until I can refresh with quality fuel. :cheers:

 

[CustomS550]

Scratch this theory as I have been seeing OAR deviation with multiple tuners of various strategies. However, I did pull the intake manifold the other day to look at the condition of the valve, to clean them using the CRC GDI Intake Valve cleaner spray as well as to replace the PCV valve just to rule out it being bad, and did find a bunch of oil pooling in the manifold! So, presumably the oil diluting the octane of the fuel could have been the issue all along, as I have been seeing puffs of smoke on full throttle runs on initial application of the throttle. I shall find out soon enough, once I fix a leak in the exhaust system.

So! I've been back on the stock tune taking it easy for the last two weeks and the OAR has been stuck on -1 to -0.97 at the lowest with both 91 and 93 octane. This must be a tune issue, and that makes sense since the tuner uses an OE-like strategy except with more timing part throttle, it seems. And that, I believe, is the root cause of the pinging and reduction in the OAR. The AFR remains stoich. even with up to 10PSI during part throttle. I'm not sure how this is safe, even with a stock tune, but especially with more aggressive timing of the performance tune?? I'm used to seeing the AFR drop to a more safe and rich target of something like 12.5 at these part throttle positive pressure conditions. This is what Unleashed does, and as far as I know Tune+ to some extent. So, again, this has me thinking of either sticking to the Ford Performance tune and a stock Downpipe as I'm in love with the smoothness of the stock tune. But I will also be considering Stratified based on the recent review. The current tuner is not going back on! I'm not sure why my particular engine doesn't like the current tune, or maybe the fact is that most other users are not looking at the OAR like we are here, but are also affected?

 

[Marvinmadman]

You don't have a catch can?

 

[5.0yote]

What is really nice about the Access Port is the ability to monitor individual cylinder timing corrections. Although, I would love the idea of a set it and forget it tune, the truth is I feel more informed when I can see exactly how my engine is dealing with the fuel in the tank. I think this gives me great insight that others often overlook. The Ecoboost engine's are extremely knock limited and from the factory are set to be very sensitive, which is why the factory tune is hamstrung if it detects the fuel to be less than ideal. Implementing a more aggressive timing and boost strategy is not a one size fits all situation, it's a rather delicate balance between optimum performance and mechanical integrity. Fuel quality is everything, but virtually impossible to achieve every single time you fill up. Sometimes you get a bad batch of fuel, even from the same frequented stations. If you pay attention to the correct engine parameters, you will know if something is not right and therefore you should adjust your driving style accordingly. This will go a long way towards engine survival. I understand they're those out there that don't want to monitor things as you drive, but for me I like having the ability to do so.


I'm glad to hear that your looking at having Stratified tune your car. Alex has a lot of experience with the ecoboost platform and will tune your car with the utmost attention to detail. It's not a one day turn around between revisions, but rest assured the final result will be worth the wait. It's a slower progression, but no details are overlooked. He will also customize the driving characteristics to suit your driving style, but will do so very safely and methodically. Having said that, I still monitor engine parameters just in case I get a tank of bad fuel. When I do, I just toggle the cruise control to the low boost/bad fuel setting and ride that tank out until I can refresh with quality fuel. :cheers:

That is what I do but I run alternating cylinders in the gauges every other tank of gas I do so I can keep the other important gauges in the AP on screen so one week I run Cyl 1,4 ign correct, and knock count for one tank and 2,3 on the next full tank. Other than that I run STFT hi def, and actual AFR, and boost off the gauge cluster.

If I do not see any knock count greater than 0-1 within the first 25 miles of the tank I drop that gauge for IAT, EST TRQ/HP etc. Till next fuel up.

Leaving gauges up like ign correction or knock count will lead you to believe something is wrong when the numbers are off such as tip in throttle its common to get some ign pull back for a blip and you would be thinking its wrong, and its not its common to get dips during throttle application, and the same goes for a solitary 1 on knock count.

I would be worried with 3 or greater knock count consistently during a pull, and consistent - ign timing values during those knock counts. That is when you know there is an issue.

It is good to monitor but I would try not to drive yourself crazy. Same goes or LOR/OARs =)

 

[CustomS550]

You don't have a catch can?

UPR on the way

BTW, curious to know what vacuum your engine is pulling during deceleration?

 

[ElAviator72]

Scratch this theory as I have been seeing OAR deviation with multiple tuners of various strategies. However, I did pull the intake manifold the other day to look at the condition of the valve, to clean them using the CRC GDI Intake Valve cleaner spray as well as to replace the PCV valve just to rule out it being bad, and did find a bunch of oil pooling in the manifold! So, presumably the oil diluting the octane of the fuel could have been the issue all along, as I have been seeing puffs of smoke on full throttle runs on initial application of the throttle. I shall find out soon enough, once I fix a leak in the exhaust system.

I'd be curious what the source of the oil is...my #1 suspect is a leaky turbo seal.

Be careful dumping stuff down the intake. Ford voids warranties over it. I wouldn't put Sea Foam down the intake, as 1) dislodged carbon deposits are known to pit the turbine wheel and 2) Sea Foam is known to eat oil out of the turbo bearings, both of which aren't good for the longevity of the turbo :frusty:

 

[CustomS550]

It has to be the PCV system as everything pre-throttle body is dry. The CRC GDI cleaner is specifically designed to be safe for turbos and all else.

Thanks!

I'd be curious what the source of the oil is...my #1 suspect is a leaky turbo seal.

Be careful dumping stuff down the intake. Ford voids warranties over it. I wouldn't put Sea Foam down the intake, as 1) dislodged carbon deposits are known to pit the turbine wheel and 2) Sea Foam is known to eat oil out of the turbo bearings, both of which aren't good for the longevity of the turbo :frusty:

 

[Marvinmadman]

Leaky turbo seal usually gets worse with boost. So I'd say that a puff isn't the turbo seals. I agree with the pool of oil creating the puff on initial throttle application. I can check my vacuum on decel when I get off. 4 more hours.

 

[CustomS550]

Here are the results after only 150 mi of use. I gutted the PCV Valve. That's not condensation, it's Oil, btw.

 

[Marvinmadman]

Problem solved

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