OAR deviation concern

[Marvinmadman]

Snapped a quick pic of the 233k mile dirty valves lol

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[jbailer]

Snapped a quick pic of the 233k mile dirty valves lol

What are those on? They look great! Not GDI is it?

 

[Marvinmadman]

Nope lol. 2005 Galant GTS 3.8 V6

 

[CustomS550]

Ive been using lucas octane booster on top of 93 octane fuel to keep the OAR in check, but shit a 93 tune shouldn't require 100+ octane. The tuner has blown me off, but i cant blame them as their tuning seems to be very standardized and off the shelf. The only deviation my car has over "standard" is the custom downpipe which the tuner supposedly accounted for. Maube there's something off with me engine as i clearly hear tapping at peak torque, but this could the wastegate actuator doing its job? Im already out of $1000 bucks on tuning trials, but i need to get this sorted once and for all.

 

[stevnoof]

Tell your tuner you want a 91 tune and run 93 or get a new tuner

 

[CustomS550]

They offer one and ive ran it a few times but at that point im not getting the most out of an expensive tuning package, I feel. I could keep pushing them but that never really works out in the end. My main dilemma with all of this is whether or not i fucked something up and whether or not switching between tuners will only prolong the underlining issue (s). Nobody likes to consult for free and remotely with such uncertainties

 

[TEXAS HEAT]

They offer one and ive ran it a few times but at that point im not getting the most out of an expensive tuning package, I feel. I could keep pushing them but that never really works out in the end. My main dilemma with all of this is whether or not i fucked something up and whether or not switching between tuners will only prolong the underlining issue (s). Nobody likes to consult for free and remotely with such uncertainties

If you're having to run octane boosters to keep engine knock at bay with your 93 octane tune then you may need a better fuel source. Also, depending on what part of the country you're in, the heat in the Summer months makes our cars more knock prone. Do you know how much total timing your tune is commanding up top? 5-6 degrees btdc is usually about max for 91, you can get away with a little more 7-8 degrees on 93, but you will need to run richer a/f ratio's for cylinder cooling to keep it from knocking.

 

[CustomS550]

If you're having to run octane boosters to keep engine knock at bay with your 93 octane tune then you may need a better fuel source. Also, depending on what part of the country you're in, the heat in the Summer months makes our cars more knock prone. Do you know how much total timing your tune is commanding up top? 5-6 degrees btdc is usually about max for 91, you can get away with a little more 7-8 degrees on 93, but you will need to run richer a/f ratio's for cylinder cooling to keep it from knocking.

I've run nothing but BP up to this point

5.5 max on 91 @ 11.2 AFR @ 19.72 PSI
9.5 max on 93 @ 11 AFR @ 20 PSI

This is the thing, all figures seem to be fairly safe and standard yet it's still pulling the OAR. Could the knock sensor be picking up on other noises?

BTW, all logs are posted in the OP.

 

[smdandb2]

I have had to giving up driving mine in the summer heat here in Utah.

It just is not fun.

If I get on the throttle for any amount of time it pulls timing and drops the OAR a few points. Adam and I went back and forth a number of times trying to sort it by checking and changing hardware on the car, but the best I can figure is I am just on the ragged edge of things.

My current tune process started when it was about 65f outside. By the time I was wrapping it up we were in the upper 90s low 100s. The temp changed that much in a few weeks.

I just set it to a lower map slot when I drive it in the heat to keep the boost down.

 

[CustomS550]

I have had to giving up driving mine in the summer heat here in Utah.

It just is not fun.

If I get on the throttle for any amount of time it pulls timing and drops the OAR a few points. Adam and I went back and forth a number of times trying to sort it by checking and changing hardware on the car, but the best I can figure is I am just on the ragged edge of things.

My current tune process started when it was about 65f outside. By the time I was wrapping it up we were in the upper 90s low 100s. The temp changed that much in a few weeks.

I just set it to a lower map slot when I drive it in the heat to keep the boost down.

Even with an aftermarket IC? My issue did not just start, but has been on going for a while now.

 

[smdandb2]

Even with an aftermarket IC? My issue did not just start, but has been on going for a while now.

Yeah, I'm still not opposed to it being a hardware issue on the car... I just don't know what it would be. I was originally thinking it was a bad tank of gas, but running the thing on fumes and refilling at another station did not fix it. I changed the plugs right before Adam and I started, but after these issues I changed them again to no avail.

Mine was definently a sudden change during an extended break between datalogging (to do other things). Looking at my logs, previously my charge air temps were like 75f thru the whole pull. On the later logs I was getting no lower than 100f, with it hitting upwards of 120f towards the rev limiter.

I'm currently putting a cp-e Race Core in, as well as a few other things to try to combat the heat the best I can. But when its 100f outside, CATs will never be lower than that.

I just wish I wasnt limited to 91 here. e85 is no go for me either... stupid Utah.

 

[CustomS550]

Yeah, I'm still not opposed to it being a hardware issue on the car... I just don't know what it would be. I was originally thinking it was a bad tank of gas, but running the thing on fumes and refilling at another station did not fix it. I changed the plugs right before Adam and I started, but after these issues I changed them again to no avail.

Mine was definently a sudden change during an extended break between datalogging (to do other things). Looking at my logs, previously my charge air temps were like 75f thru the whole pull. On the later logs I was getting no lower than 100f, with it hitting upwards of 120f towards the rev limiter.

I'm currently putting a cp-e Race Core in, as well as a few other things to try to combat the heat the best I can. But when its 100f outside, CATs will never be lower than that.

I just wish I wasnt limited to 91 here. e85 is no go for me either... stupid Utah.

Good luck!

 

[Bull Run]

I have had to giving up driving mine in the summer heat here in Utah.

I also have a similar setup as you with VS2+ turbo, Tune+ tune, and WMI. I also did my tune while the ambient temperature was below 70 degrees. I adjusted the WMI controller to start spraying at lower boost levels during the summer, and had no issues using the same tune at near 120 degrees weather here in the Phoenix area with crappy 91 octane gas.

I highly recommend WMI if you don't have access to E85 in your area.

 

[TEXAS HEAT]

I've run nothing but BP up to this point

5.5 max on 91 @ 11.2 AFR @ 19.72 PSI
9.5 max on 93 @ 11 AFR @ 20 PSI

This is the thing, all figures seem to be fairly safe and standard yet it's still pulling the OAR. Could the knock sensor be picking up on other noises?

BTW, all logs are posted in the OP.

If your OAR is being affected it is likely real knock events with enough severity to impact it. That being said, it is natural for our engines to knock during normal driving. The ecu is constantly adding timing up until the point of knock, then it will start pulling timing until the knock is gone. The OAR is usually not impacted by these types of knock events and timing corrections. If it is severe enough, it will ding the OAR. You either need (a) better fuel or (b) a less aggressive timing strategy. Ideally you want your tune to be custom to the quality of the fuel you have available. If you run BP 93 and you get knock on your 93 tune, try running a 91 tune. If you cant get the level of support you need from your tuner, it may be time to change tuners. There are plenty of choices out there that would be eager to earn your business and are willing to work with you.

 

[CustomS550]

I was using the 91 octane tune with 93 octane fuel for a long while, and still there was timing being pulled at peak torque as the 91 octane log shows in the OP. Thats the big ? that i have and the reason for this thread.

If your OAR is being affected it is likely real knock events with enough severity to impact it. That being said, it is natural for our engines to knock during normal driving. The ecu is constantly adding timing up until the point of knock, then it will start pulling timing until the knock is gone. The OAR is usually not impacted by these types of knock events and timing corrections. If it is severe enough, it will ding the OAR. You either need (a) better fuel or (b) a less aggressive timing strategy. Ideally you want your tune to be custom to the quality of the fuel you have available. If you run BP 93 and you get knock on your 93 tune, try running a 91 tune. If you cant get the level of support you need from your tuner, it may be time to change tuners. There are plenty of choices out there that would be eager to earn your business and are willing to work with you.

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