Now I see the problem, you never had a real car starting out. You cannot be blamed for not understanding.Again. Intrepid hero (me). First car (manual Camry). Quest (defeat The Manual Man). Conflict (coming to terms with my manual driving past). Resolution (discovering the 10R80).
56 chevy .......... short shot?And what was your first car hot shot?
Great minds think alikeNow I see the problem, you never had a real car starting out. You cannot be blamed for not understanding.
There's this thing called patience. Took a week or so but I now drive the MT-82 just like any other manual. Go backwards to older cars and still drive them just like before. I did drive my buddy's Peterbuilt 379 once. That was fun!I can smoothly shift a farm tractor going up hill pulling a hay wagon. I can smoothly shift a road tractor, pulling an 80,000 Lb load or bob tail. I can smoothly shift any 60's 70''s or 80's 4 or 5 speed but I cannot smoothly shift one of these nanny assisted fuel injected rev hang POS's to save my life.
So auto for me. I really want a DCT.
A manual V8 vs a manual 4 cylinder just might be the same differences as an auto 8 vs auto 4 lol.So we had around the same horsepower
I liked it better when you were banned
IN all fairness drivers of both can understand the I dont trust those valet people.A/T people:
-Our transmissions are superior
-Can complete a shift in x milliseconds
-Our cars are faster
-M/T is trash
Also A/T people:
-M/T shift boot install to âlook coolâ
-A/T shifts too much/too little
-A/T shifts too harsh/too soft
-A/T often in different gear than desired
M/T people:
-Skill required to operate
-Always in desired gear
-Always at desired shift firmness
-Simpler transmission design
-Lighter in weight
-A/T is boring
Also M/T people:
-Traffic sucks
-Shift speed limited by synchonizer design (skilled drivers only)
-Clutch release problems
-I donât want to come to a stop on that hill
-I donât trust those valet people
All in good fun, no offense intended
I knew some ppl who worked for valet parking at a night club in DC. They would always talk about that vette, R8, Shelby, AMG, etc and how fast they would go.IN all fairness drivers of both can understand the I dont trust those valet people.
Well. Good points but. the motorcycle thing is a different story and I can agree with the abs cause issues as i have a goofed up right thumb because of them. but for the car, You are discussing 3 things that are not necessary to know to be able to do to drive a manual well. Or to be a better driver in over all daily driving ability.To quote the original statement of:
No driving a manual does not make you smarter, more skilled, a better driver or more of a car guy.
I totally agree. However, driving a manual does allow for the POTENTIAL for a higher skill-threshold if the driver wishes to pursue it.
For example:
Itâs one thing to be able to heel-toe downshift, itâs another to be able to do it in a butter-smooth fashion, to the point that a passenger canât feel any difference in braking pressure on the downshifts. The auto driver canât explore this area of driving finesse.
Side-stepping the clutch on mid-corner downshifts to cause a compression lock-up is something else the auto guy canât explore. Mid-corner handfuls of opposite-lock anyone?
Clutch-kicking for epic powerskids? Havenât seen an auto guy do it yet.
Meanwhile, in the bike world, guys are opposed to ABS because it interferes with their ability to control the bike properly, which would be the exact same reason Iâve had the TC/ESC plug pulled for the past few years.
Electronics are great, but they canât predict what a human is actually trying to achieve,
Iâd argue that if you arenât using heel-toe, not using compression lock-ups, not clutch-kicking and driving around with your TC or ESC on, youâre really not exploring the opportunities that your transmission allows.
Buy an auto. Save yourself the hassle .
Grip > Drift
Are we discussing necessity or âgood drivingâ? How do we even define a âgoodâ driver?Well. Good points but. the motorcycle thing is a different story and I can agree with the abs cause issues as i have a goofed up right thumb because of them. but for the car, You are discussing 3 things that are not necessary to know to be able to do to drive a manual well. Or to be a better driver in over all daily driving ability.
Back in the day sure being able to heal toe sure made shifts smoother but did it make you a better driver? not really. Maybe in the world of manuals it made you better then another manual driver in that paticular skill set but better driver as a whole naaa . But today heal toeing is unnessiasry and is akin to needing something printed and the printer insisting on using type set instead of just using a computer to make the document up or someone buying a new laptop and putting windows 98 on it. heal toeing is one of those things that some manual guy somewhere saw a race car driver do and brought it over to commuter driving and now insists its necessary. most every modern manual doesn't need heal toeing.
As for the other two points... that just you screwing around nether of those are necessary to drive a car at all in everyday life and are just show boating and having nothing to do with being a batter driver and are about equal too.....
A good MT driver will have more driving skills in his toolkit. But being good at a few things that the average AT driver may not even be aware of isn't the same as being more skilled, overall.To quote the original statement of:
No driving a manual does not make you smarter, more skilled, a better driver or more of a car guy.
I totally agree. However, driving a manual does allow for the POTENTIAL for a higher skill-threshold if the driver wishes to pursue it.
Obviously you can't H-T downshift an automatic. You don't have to H-T downshift a MT to get a butter-smooth downshift, either. A good double-clutch rev-matched downshift can be equally smooth, though at some cost in terms of lap time on the track (which counts for nothing at all on the street).For example:
Itâs one thing to be able to heel-toe downshift, itâs another to be able to do it in a butter-smooth fashion, to the point that a passenger canât feel any difference in braking pressure on the downshifts. The auto driver canât explore this area of driving finesse.
I have to fully agree with Brie on these matters. Intentionally breaking traction - especially in a corner - has no place in either your street driving or out on a road course. Though I know for a fact that a 352-powered 1965 Ford pickup truck would easily clutch-kick 2nd gear rubber from a roll.Side-stepping the clutch on mid-corner downshifts to cause a compression lock-up is something else the auto guy canât explore. Mid-corner handfuls of opposite-lock anyone?
Clutch-kicking for epic powerskids? Havenât seen an auto guy do it yet.
And here I'm going to agree with you. They can react to what you start to do, sometimes with more success, sometimes with not so much, but they aren't ever going to be in phase with your initial intentions.Electronics are great, but they canât predict what a human is actually trying to achieve
Let's not drag the nannies into this discussion. As far as I know, they don't affect automatic transmission operation. Not yet, anyway.Iâd argue that if you arenât using heel-toe, not using compression lock-ups, not clutch-kicking and driving around with your TC or ESC on, youâre really not exploring the opportunities that your transmission allows.
Buy an auto. Save yourself the hassle.
A good driver makes smooth transitions with his car control inputs. On the street, that corresponds to having a maximum margin of safety relative to speeds and conditions. On the track it means maximum average speed / minimum lap time relative to being at or close to the car's ultimate limits.Are we discussing necessity or âgood drivingâ? How do we even define a âgoodâ driver?
Is it someone who can navigate traffic safely or someone who can rip a power skid at 60mph with absolute control, deliberately making the car fishtail just for entertainment value?
On the street, there's no need to drive a manual much different than you would an automatic. On the street, it's not about the extremes of what you could do with a clutch and MT, it's mainly about keeping the engine revving at rpms where adequate throttle response exists for the conditions of the moment. Automatics are more or less programmed with that (and other criteria) in mind. You could do a whole lot worse than take the same approach to your own manual shifting.My point is that if you drive a manual like youâd drive an auto, buy an auto.
That covers only one of four combinations [of transmission type and suitability]. There's plenty of reasons an automatic could be "UTTERLY unsuitable" even if you don't drive a MT car in any of the show-off manners that you have mentioned.If you drive a manual the way it CAN be driven, an auto is UTTERLY unsuitable.
The only mindset necessary here is,For some people, itâs not just a transmission, itâs a mindset The transmission is simply the tool that helps them to explore that mindset.