New to boost. Mapping a good starting point?

[Crowd.Slayer]

Hey guys, I don't know shit about boost and I am slowly learning little by little. Been lurking for a while and am looking to boost my car.

Currently my 2017 GT S550 is my daily (41k miles), however, it will become my weekend/project car when I get my econobox. With that said, I've gathered a list of what essentials I need done to have this car run and perform for what I have in mind. This will be a street car primarily. I want reliability in the build and to stay with stock internals. My goal is for 800+ horsepower but below 900 (on max boost). Anything 700-740 WHP would suffice. I don't need to have it hit those numbers on lower boost but on max PSI that's where I would like it to be. That being said, would this setup be able to hit that? If not, what would I need to obtain it?

Here is the list of what I'm looking at:
(Any alternates or brands you recommend are greatly appreciated or if I'm missing something feel free to add it!)

Whipple Stage 2 3.8L supercharger
Upgraded Oil Pump Gears (any personal recommendations?)
Carbon fiber driveshaft
Fuel system/Injectors for E85 (Can a fuel system set for E85 handle a flex tune or go to 93 octane?)
or If I go for a Flex Fuel tune, my injectors can remain stock, is that correct?
Changing to a 3.875" pulley
Going for a Lund tune once all said and done


I appreciate any info or corrections you folks may have. Any eye-rolling is warranted.

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[jr16]

Hey guys, I don't know shit about boost and I am slowly learning little by little. Been lurking for a while and am looking to boost my car.

Currently my 2017 GT S550 is my daily (41k miles), however, it will become my weekend/project car when I get my econobox. With that said, I've gathered a list of what essentials I need done to have this car run and perform for what I have in mind. This will be a street car primarily. I want reliability in the build and to stay with stock internals. My goal is for 800+ horsepower but below 900 (on max boost). Anything 700-740 WHP would suffice. I don't need to have it hit those numbers on lower boost but on max PSI that's where I would like it to be. That being said, would this setup be able to hit that? If not, what would I need to obtain it?

Here is the list of what I'm looking at:
(Any alternates or brands you recommend are greatly appreciated or if I'm missing something feel free to add it!)

Whipple Stage 2 3.8L supercharger
Upgraded Oil Pump Gears (any personal recommendations?)
Carbon fiber driveshaft
Fuel system/Injectors for E85 (Can a fuel system set for E85 handle a flex tune or go to 93 octane?)
or If I go for a Flex Fuel tune, my injectors can remain stock, is that correct?
Changing to a 3.875" pulley
Going for a Lund tune once all said and done


I appreciate any info or corrections you folks may have. Any eye-rolling is warranted.

Looks to be a solid list there! Not off by any means. Although, if you're only planning on making below 800whp, a 3.8 Whipple will get it there for sure, but has a ton more potential then that. A 3.0 could get you into that power range, but would require, of course, a way smaller pulley and have to be spun quite a bit more. If you're planning on going built motor at some point, that 3.8 head unit can be pullied down and build some huge boost. Regardless, solid choice. https://www.lethalperformance.com/s...ford-mustang-gt/supercharger-upgrades/whipple

I personally lean towards the MMR OPG and Crank Sprocket combo, although have yet to hear of a manufacturer caused failure in either MMR or Boundary, but definitely a necessary upgrade for the motor. https://www.lethalperformance.com/m...5-2019-mustang-gt-2015-2018-shelby-gt350.html

For most fuel systems, such as our Division X Return System, can always be toned down with tuning, so if you want to run 93 Oct., E85, Methanol etc... , it's all controlled by the tune it's flashed with, so make sure to get a solid tuner such as Palm Beach Dyno or Lund! On such a high horsepower, high performance goal, you wouldn't be able to run stock injectors, regardless of fuel. Definitely would need a beefier set of injectors, even on a stock car, to run E85. Would personally recommend out at least IDX1300 or equivalent size to ensure you don't starve the engine.
Lethal Performance 2011-2017 Mustang GT Level 2 Return Style Fuel System (Whipple / Edelbrock Supercharger)

Feel free to reach out to me or any one of us here at Lethal Performance with any more questions or anything!

 

[illtal]

Hey guys, I don't know shit about boost and I am slowly learning little by little. Been lurking for a while and am looking to boost my car.

Currently my 2017 GT S550 is my daily (41k miles), however, it will become my weekend/project car when I get my econobox. With that said, I've gathered a list of what essentials I need done to have this car run and perform for what I have in mind. This will be a street car primarily. I want reliability in the build and to stay with stock internals. My goal is for 800+ horsepower but below 900 (on max boost). Anything 700-740 WHP would suffice. I don't need to have it hit those numbers on lower boost but on max PSI that's where I would like it to be. That being said, would this setup be able to hit that? If not, what would I need to obtain it?

Here is the list of what I'm looking at:
(Any alternates or brands you recommend are greatly appreciated or if I'm missing something feel free to add it!)

Whipple Stage 2 3.8L supercharger
Upgraded Oil Pump Gears (any personal recommendations?)
Carbon fiber driveshaft
Fuel system/Injectors for E85 (Can a fuel system set for E85 handle a flex tune or go to 93 octane?)
or If I go for a Flex Fuel tune, my injectors can remain stock, is that correct?
Changing to a 3.875" pulley
Going for a Lund tune once all said and done


I appreciate any info or corrections you folks may have. Any eye-rolling is warranted.

You only need a 3.0L for that kind of power level. 3.8 is for 4 digit territory mainly. You can of course use it if you wish but it's a bit of overkill. upper limits of the 3.0 is well into 4 digit range.

Any fueling you use will have a tune associated with it. you will have to reflash to go back to 93 or to E-85 . There is no one that uses a flex tune except fatfab, and they have a motec that they use to interpret the signal from a flex sensor that allows you to pump anything from E-0 to E-99 in the tank without a reflash. I think they will install and tune these for you if this is the route you want to take. it does cost much more money than the remote tuning that others provide.

You Will HAVE to upgrade your injectors in ANY situation involving a gen 2 and boost. Alcohol based fuels have a lower BTU level, which means a HIGHER BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption) which means you will use a LOT more of it to achieve the same HP than you would with a petroleum based fuel. Needless to say the advantage is a cleaner burning fuel with cylinder cooling and high octane which is what you're going to need at 700+ RWHP asking that out of 93 probably isn't a good idea without some help.

You should probably do a little more researching OR speak with the tuner of your choice. There are at least three reputable remote tuners available that can steer you in the correct path.

If this is a street car:
Any boost from whipple, ATI (think procharger, vortech, paxton), ESS, and the 2650 boys can get you to where you wanna be.
I would do a return style fuel system but only if you know 100% you're going to be using something like E-54 + (petroleum based can get you really close or a bit over 700 wheel but this is the upper limits at that point: you would either need meth or race fuel to make it safer)
Wheels and tires
Suspension

If it will be launched:
Half Shafts
Clutch
Driveshaft
Cradle Lockouts
Drag springs/ Shocks


If you drag race you will need a lot more stuff:

 

[Jackson1320]

I do not recommend a carbon fiber drive shaft on the street. One hit from a rock or debris and your drive shaft is gone. Aluminum will hold up better on the street. A track car is a different story

 

[Crowd.Slayer]

Looks to be a solid list there! Not off by any means. Although, if you're only planning on making below 800whp, a 3.8 Whipple will get it there for sure, but has a ton more potential then that. A 3.0 could get you into that power range, but would require, of course, a way smaller pulley and have to be spun quite a bit more. If you're planning on going built motor at some point, that 3.8 head unit can be pullied down and build some huge boost. Regardless, solid choice. https://www.lethalperformance.com/s...ford-mustang-gt/supercharger-upgrades/whipple

I personally lean towards the MMR OPG and Crank Sprocket combo, although have yet to hear of a manufacturer caused failure in either MMR or Boundary, but definitely a necessary upgrade for the motor. https://www.lethalperformance.com/m...5-2019-mustang-gt-2015-2018-shelby-gt350.html

For most fuel systems, such as our Division X Return System, can always be toned down with tuning, so if you want to run 93 Oct., E85, Methanol etc... , it's all controlled by the tune it's flashed with, so make sure to get a solid tuner such as Palm Beach Dyno or Lund! On such a high horsepower, high performance goal, you wouldn't be able to run stock injectors, regardless of fuel. Definitely would need a beefier set of injectors, even on a stock car, to run E85. Would personally recommend out at least IDX1300 or equivalent size to ensure you don't starve the engine.
Lethal Performance 2011-2017 Mustang GT Level 2 Return Style Fuel System (Whipple / Edelbrock Supercharger)

Feel free to reach out to me or any one of us here at Lethal Performance with any more questions or anything!

I appreciate all the info guys! One of my thoughts is.. why not go for the 3.8 over the 3.0 when they are fairly close in price range. Seems like the logical step would be to have something capable of handling even more power once/if the horsepower bug bites you (and we all know how that goes). Seems to be only a difference of $500 and you open yourself up to a lot more power capability down the road. I'm just thinking long term here, if there are some good reasons of getting the 3.0 over the 3.8 I'm willing to hear them. Also if I'd be saving more than say a $1,000 between the two, then that alone would have it's own case. But there doesn't seem to be a large difference in price to warrant not doing it.

I understand with reaching this kind of power, it's not just the engine that needs love but also it has to be able to reliably put down all that power and not break. That in itself could be it's own thread, but I'll leave it at that.

Thanks guys!

 

[Crowd.Slayer]

I do not recommend a carbon fiber drive shaft on the street. One hit from a rock or debris and your drive shaft is gone. Aluminum will hold up better on the street. A track car is a different story

This helps a lot. Appreciate the info on going Aluminum over Carbon fiber for street purposes. Thank you.

 

[illtal]

I appreciate all the info guys! One of my thoughts is.. why not go for the 3.8 over the 3.0 when they are fairly close in price range. Seems like the logical step would be to have something capable of handling even more power once/if the horsepower bug bites you (and we all know how that goes). Seems to be only a difference of $500 and you open yourself up to a lot more power capability down the road. I'm just thinking long term here, if there are some good reasons of getting the 3.0 over the 3.8 I'm willing to hear them. Also if I'd be saving more than say a $1,000 between the two, then that alone would have it's own case. But there doesn't seem to be a large difference in price to warrant not doing it.

I understand with reaching this kind of power, it's not just the engine that needs love but also it has to be able to reliably put down all that power and not break. That in itself could be it's own thread, but I'll leave it at that.

Thanks guys!

If you don't care about having to lower the engine to clear the hood, then you can always go larger, but you hit the nail on the head; you need a LOT more engine to use it's capability. Once you get around to using it at that level, you no longer have a street car.

Whipple hasn't put out any technical information on how it compares with the 3L in detail, but it should hold true

It is a supercharger and it will still perform similarly like it's smaller counterpart, but at 4 digit power the larger one will win out due to being able to spin at a slower speed to get the same amount of airflow (less heat).

Really there are few downsides, if you can swing it, and wait on it. It should be superior even at "street" power levels. Not many people have them and are pushing 20+ PSI.

But honestly if I was after this kind of power I would be eyeballing turbo systems instead. Less boost to get to the goal and the ability to turn up and down boost levels is gold.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

I appreciate all the info guys! One of my thoughts is.. why not go for the 3.8 over the 3.0 when they are fairly close in price range. Seems like the logical step would be to have something capable of handling even more power once/if the horsepower bug bites you (and we all know how that goes). Seems to be only a difference of $500 and you open yourself up to a lot more power capability down the road. I'm just thinking long term here, if there are some good reasons of getting the 3.0 over the 3.8 I'm willing to hear them. Also if I'd be saving more than say a $1,000 between the two, then that alone would have it's own case. But there doesn't seem to be a large difference in price to warrant not doing it.

I understand with reaching this kind of power, it's not just the engine that needs love but also it has to be able to reliably put down all that power and not break. That in itself could be it's own thread, but I'll leave it at that.

Thanks guys!

3.0 can go bottom 8's. I dont think bottom 8s is in your future anytime soon. The 3.8 with the largest pulley available which is the 3.75, will split your motor in half the first time out. Your first post says "i dont know shit about boost" and are talking about putting the biggest, baddest blower for a coyote on a stock engine.... Cmon man.

 

[givemeadollar]

3.0 can go bottom 8's. I dont think bottom 8s is in your future anytime soon. The 3.8 with the largest pulley available which is the 3.75, will split your motor in half the first time out. Your first post says "i dont know shit about boost" and are talking about putting the biggest, baddest blower for a coyote on a stock engine.... Cmon man.

This, but on the other hand I kind of want to see a stock gen 2 with a 3.8L. You know, for science.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

This, but on the other hand I kind of want to see a stock gen 2 with a 3.8L. You know, for science.

Oh i want too see it too, but it will likely not happen.

 

[Crowd.Slayer]

3.0 can go bottom 8's. I dont think bottom 8s is in your future anytime soon. The 3.8 with the largest pulley available which is the 3.75, will split your motor in half the first time out. Your first post says "i dont know shit about boost" and are talking about putting the biggest, baddest blower for a coyote on a stock engine.... Cmon man.

A very valid reason. Thanks for bringing me back to earth. I either ask you guys the ridiculous questions or I find out the hard way. Personally, I would rather just ask.

 

[Crowd.Slayer]

If you don't care about having to lower the engine to clear the hood, then you can always go larger, but you hit the nail on the head; you need a LOT more engine to use it's capability. Once you get around to using it at that level, you no longer have a street car.

Whipple hasn't put out any technical information on how it compares with the 3L in detail, but it should hold true

It is a supercharger and it will still perform similarly like it's smaller counterpart, but at 4 digit power the larger one will win out due to being able to spin at a slower speed to get the same amount of airflow (less heat).

Really there are few downsides, if you can swing it, and wait on it. It should be superior even at "street" power levels. Not many people have them and are pushing 20+ PSI.

But honestly if I was after this kind of power I would be eyeballing turbo systems instead. Less boost to get to the goal and the ability to turn up and down boost levels is gold.

Yeah. If I'm leaving room to go larger, at that point I should consider turbos. You are right. Thank you.

These guys brought me to my senses. 3.0L it is. I did not realize how much overkill the 3.8 would be for what my intended goal is.

Thanks again, guys.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

A very valid reason. Thanks for bringing me back to earth. I either ask you guys the ridiculous questions or I find out the hard way. Personally, I would rather just ask.

The 3.0 will be more efficient in your application and will be real fast if you ever turn it up!

 

[beefcake]

Hey guys, I don't know shit about boost and I am slowly learning little by little. Been lurking for a while and am looking to boost my car.

Currently my 2017 GT S550 is my daily (41k miles), however, it will become my weekend/project car when I get my econobox. With that said, I've gathered a list of what essentials I need done to have this car run and perform for what I have in mind. This will be a street car primarily. I want reliability in the build and to stay with stock internals. My goal is for 800+ horsepower but below 900 (on max boost). Anything 700-740 WHP would suffice. I don't need to have it hit those numbers on lower boost but on max PSI that's where I would like it to be. That being said, would this setup be able to hit that? If not, what would I need to obtain it?

Here is the list of what I'm looking at:
(Any alternates or brands you recommend are greatly appreciated or if I'm missing something feel free to add it!)

Whipple Stage 2 3.8L supercharger
Upgraded Oil Pump Gears (any personal recommendations?)
Carbon fiber driveshaft
Fuel system/Injectors for E85 (Can a fuel system set for E85 handle a flex tune or go to 93 octane?)
or If I go for a Flex Fuel tune, my injectors can remain stock, is that correct?
Changing to a 3.875" pulley
Going for a Lund tune once all said and done


I appreciate any info or corrections you folks may have. Any eye-rolling is warranted.

For your power goals the 3.0L kit will get you there with room to grow as well. 3.8L is a large setup for the power you're shooting for. Upgraded OPG/CS aren't required but we look at the billet pieces as cheap insurance as the only downside to them is money and the billet pieces are going to be stronger than stock.

Fuel, if you want to run E85 you'll need a 1000cc injector along with a dual pump return style system like the Sai Li dual or Fore Innovations kit minimum. If you want to run pump gas only a 1000cc injector with a fuel pump booster will suffice. This is what Lund typically recommends as well to make sure you're not starving the system of fuel.

If you're planning to go with tuning through Lund I would suggest one of my custom Beefcake Special packages as they come with a 1000cc injector and fuel pump booster for pump gas or if you want to run E85 we can swap that fuel pump booster for a dual pump return style system for sure.

Can even help out with the driveshaft with a DSS or QA1 carbon fiber or we can do a DSS aluminum as well.

Feel Free to DM me or call with any questions.
Terry "Beefcake" Reeves
Office - 855-TBR-RACE
Owner Team Beefcake - 20+ Years Experience
Deal Directly with the boss, no pushy sales guys!!!!!!!
https://www.beefcakeracing.com - Your Forced Induction Specialists
#beefcakeracing #teambeefcake

 

[Crowd.Slayer]

Alright. Took some more time to research.

That list was a bit ambitious for my intended goals for a street car. If I were to go with the return style fuel system on E85, like beefcake suggested. Is a E85 tune picky as they say? Where you should not fill up with anything less than E80?

Separate scenario, with a BAP and remaining on 91/93 pump, would 650rwhp be acheivable on the whipple tune? What pulley size would be recommended to get to those numbers?

Is there any prep or recommendations on what may need to be done before the blower is installed? Compression tests? Anything else?

Thanks for all the feedback guys, it has helped a lot.

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