Need reliable fuel delivery?

[illtal]

Made a post tuning forum.
this will be good for street car boosted people.

when idling I’m down to 3.8amps :-)

what’s your fore system at?


In search of the perfect fuel system for the s550 mustang has come to a end.

first of all… Fuelab is an amazing company to work with. I have had a few of their Prodigy pumps in the past and they have not let me down.
Im excited for the intank brushless future!

Issues we faced with the triple 450s or the 525s is now a thing of the past.

Issues that some people may not know about yet;

1. Brushed pumps causing issues with heat in the fuel and the potential of the pump prematurely wearing out causing a lean conditions.
2. Having to run no less the 1/2 tank to really make sure pumps are staying cool.
3. A crazy amount of amp draw taxing the alternator.
4. Poor flow control.
5. Noise.
6. And the potential of the hobbs switch not firing on pumps 2 and 3.

With the plastic fuel tanks we have, keeping fuel cool is very hard with high horsepower “brushed” pumps. Many of us have seen it where we get close to critical fuel conditions just by driving around before a race.

In the following set up i look at eliminating nearly all the problems that cause issues with fuelling.


Fuelab 49614 500lph brushless pumps (qty 2)

Fuelab 72002 PWM controllers (qty 2)

Fuelab 52902 Electronic fuel pressure regulator (qty 1)

Fuel hat.
-10 Carbon PTFE Stainless fuel hose.

-8 Carbon PTFE Stainless fuel hose.
Relays and power wire for the fuel pumps.

With the above system and utilizing the insane control of the Electronic Fuel Pressure Regulator it idle you will be only using just enough fuel to keep the fuel pressure at 55psi while limiting fuel returning to the tank by the pump speed being slowed down by the signals from the fuel pressure regulator. Soon as you think about touching the gas the response time of the piece will bring the pumps up to speed to again keep the fuel pressure where you need it without rail pressure drop!

This combined with being a brushless pump will keep the pumps and fuel as cool as possible no matter if you are at the traffic lights or at the big end of the track chasing a low 8 or faster!!
But! What if you need more fuel. Simple. Just add another 500L pump and controller and be fuelled to 1900WHP!

keep tuned for updates a I get this all dailed in.
Also for the fuel hat. It’s from SPE and the quality and price is on point. I did have to mill the hanger a little bit to get the pumps to fit nicely.

I'm still waiting on my controllers to run the 49614 pumps. It's been 7+ months, where did you find the controllers?

Sponsored

 

[Kennysum1]

Never did answer the question on cost. This is a great setup and all but what is the deal not saying how much it is? Is it that expensive its just not worth it and you do not want to say?

It would help some of us out that are also running heavy boosted applications to know if the price is worth the benefit for us. Everyone is different so if its 6k to get this setup it might be worth it to some and not to others.

 

[LOL WUT]

Never did answer the question on cost. This is a great setup and all but what is the deal not saying how much it is? Is it that expensive its just not worth it and you do not want to say?

It would help some of us out that are also running heavy boosted applications to know if the price is worth the benefit for us. Everyone is different so if its 6k to get this setup it might be worth it to some and not to others.

There is a decent outline in post 1 of the parts used. Should be able to get a ballpark figure based off that if OP is not willing to share their numbers.

 

[Angrey]

I'm still waiting on my controllers to run the 49614 pumps. It's been 7+ months, where did you find the controllers?

I thought you were going to go with the DW controllers? Call Dakota and DW. I'm betting they'll sell you a pair of PWM controllers separate. Works just fine with my Fuelab regulator and 440's. I'm betting it would work with the Fuelab brushless pumps.

 

[illtal]

I thought you were going to go with the DW controllers? Call Dakota and DW. I'm betting they'll sell you a pair of PWM controllers separate. Works just fine with my Fuelab regulator and 440's. I'm betting it would work with the Fuelab brushless pumps.

I thought about it, I haven't pulled the trigger on anything because I haven't started the build. Now that I have my shortblock along with a gaggle of parts, I can look for alternatives, but it's not still needed until we go for a new tune.

Super jelly that I don't have the controllers yet but the op does. WTF. I've got to ride up to Illinois and check on my home. Maybe I'll stop by Collinsville and see what's up with fuelab.

I'm not opposed to pulling the plug on it but as previously stated two 500LPH pumps is somewhere along of 1900 HP on e-85. Lots of potential for a quiet low amp operation and stock reliability.

 

[Aussie-up-north]

Never did answer the question on cost. This is a great setup and all but what is the deal not saying how much it is? Is it that expensive its just not worth it and you do not want to say?

It would help some of us out that are also running heavy boosted applications to know if the price is worth the benefit for us. Everyone is different so if its 6k to get this setup it might be worth it to some and not to others.

sorry as you can understand I was flooded with messages. You do pay more for it. But its Quickly becoming the norm.

You can see warning from fore about pump heat, melted fusing and their work arounds. You can also see them looking into brushless pumps now to keep up the changes.

72002 $300
49614 $260
Hat was about $500

 

[Aussie-up-north]

I thought about it, I haven't pulled the trigger on anything because I haven't started the build. Now that I have my shortblock along with a gaggle of parts, I can look for alternatives, but it's not still needed until we go for a new tune.

Super jelly that I don't have the controllers yet but the op does. WTF. I've got to ride up to Illinois and check on my home. Maybe I'll stop by Collinsville and see what's up with fuelab.

I'm not opposed to pulling the plug on it but as previously stated two 500LPH pumps is somewhere along of 1900 HP on e-85. Lots of potential for a quiet low amp operation and stock reliability.

they did a massive revision change to the controllers. For the better. Not saying the old ones were bad but now they will do a lot more of the nerdy stuff inside them.
maybe call him and ask what’s up.

 

[illtal]

they did a massive revision change to the controllers. For the better. Not saying the old ones were bad but now they will do a lot more of the nerdy stuff inside them.
maybe call him and ask what’s up.

I called them, DM and email. I know what's going on. They just are having trouble with the distribution. They do have my pumps ready though.

 

[Angrey]

I called them, DM and email. I know what's going on. They just are having trouble with the distribution. They do have my pumps ready though.

I thought you were just waiting on controllers. Once you get the pumps, I'd recommend exploring the DW controllers. Fuelab can give you updates but chances are, they themselves have no clue when they'll receive the necessary components to complete your order (they're probably being fed unreliable info from suppliers).

The real "control" comes from either the ECU or in this case, the electronic regulator. The "controller" is nothing more than a translator and follows the inputs/commands from the PWM source. So if Fuelab is developing advanced or enhanced features it must be ala injector dynamics where the controller is truly doing more than just opening and closing as a relay with pulse width, dwell, etc.

 

[illtal]

I am waiting on controllers, they show that two pumps are shippable but not the controllers. I will ask and see if they have other options.

I fancy using the 0-5V speed control via a one bar map sensor. DW controllers work like the TI controller like a ground switch from 40 to 100%.

 

[illtal]

I thought you were just waiting on controllers. Once you get the pumps, I'd recommend exploring the DW controllers. Fuelab can give you updates but chances are, they themselves have no clue when they'll receive the necessary components to complete your order (they're probably being fed unreliable info from suppliers).

The real "control" comes from either the ECU or in this case, the electronic regulator. The "controller" is nothing more than a translator and follows the inputs/commands from the PWM source. So if Fuelab is developing advanced or enhanced features it must be ala injector dynamics where the controller is truly doing more than just opening and closing as a relay with pulse width, dwell, etc.

https://www.fuelab.com/72003-externally-mounted-electronic-dc-brushless-fuel-pump-controller/p171

Same kind the op got..... I actually haven't thought about ecu pwm but I'll have to see what the range is on the factory FPDM.

 

[Angrey]

I am waiting on controllers, they show that two pumps are shippable but not the controllers. I will ask and see if they have other options.

I fancy using the 0-5V speed control via a one bar map sensor. DW controllers work like the TI controller like a ground switch from 40 to 100%.

They have several options, they have two tier, PWM and full on. The PWM is true PWM. So duty cycle is determined by pulse width from a source. You should read up on the various pros and cons of pump control based off rpm, throttle position, pressure, etc. Most of it has been tried before. Much of it "works" but has a few conditions where the logic fails and creates issues. That's what makes Fuelab's electronic controller so brilliant. Instead of an indirect or secondary reference (like boost or rpm) which infers fuel needs, the regulator measures return line consumption which is directly related to engine fuel consumption. No more disconnect between how much fuel is "estimated" based upon a secondary measurement. Most of the inferred methods work fine for WOT/Sustained fuel ramps, but have issues on off or part or intermittent throttle with surge/lag, which is why returnless systems fall short at high power levels.

The beauty of the electronic FPR is not only is it mechanically indexed for boost (like the others) but the return line itself is a customizable "reserve." So if you want more reserve, just set the return flow base higher. The system only goes lean if motor eats enough to reduce return flow to zero. So if you have sudden load spikes and are seeing close to lean or lean, you can adjust the return line resistance to give more flow (aka more reserve).

 

[illtal]

They have several options, they have two tier, PWM and full on. The PWM is true PWM. So duty cycle is determined by pulse width from a source. You should read up on the various pros and cons of pump control based off rpm, throttle position, pressure, etc. Most of it has been tried before. Much of it "works" but has a few conditions where the logic fails and creates issues. That's what makes Fuelab's electronic controller so brilliant. Instead of an indirect or secondary reference (like boost or rpm) which infers fuel needs, the regulator measures return line consumption which is directly related to engine fuel consumption. No more disconnect between how much fuel is "estimated" based upon a secondary measurement. Most of the inferred methods work fine for WOT/Sustained fuel ramps, but have issues on off or part or intermittent throttle with surge/lag, which is why returnless systems fall short at high power levels.

The beauty of the electronic FPR is not only is it mechanically indexed for boost (like the others) but the return line itself is a customizable "reserve." So if you want more reserve, just set the return flow base higher. The system only goes lean if motor eats enough to reduce return flow to zero. So if you have sudden load spikes and are seeing close to lean or lean, you can adjust the return line resistance to give more flow (aka more reserve).

Yea I'm aware of how that works, but the controller for the pump needs to match whatever method we are going to use.

So I would definitely use the fastest transition method to prevent lean spikes. I also believe that if we "overflow" anytime we are in boost there would not be a problem unless the fuel cannot be consumed fast enough and it creates a problem in the return. That's the reason for the one bar map sensor.

If I go full electronic in this manner with the fuelab regulator, I would definitely change to the pwm controller instead.

 

[illtal]

Yea I'm aware of how that works, but the controller for the pump needs to match whatever method we are going to use.

So I would definitely use the fastest transition method to prevent lean spikes. I also believe that if we "overflow" anytime we are in boost there would not be a problem unless the fuel cannot be consumed fast enough and it creates a problem in the return. That's the reason for the one bar map sensor.

If I go full electronic in this manner with the fuelab regulator, I would definitely change to the pwm controller instead.

I called the dealer and swapped to the 72002 controller which is the pwm controller. I will be buying a fuelab electronic fuel pressure regulator. I want to run one regulator, @Angrey are you running a dual regulator setup?

 

[bankyf]

I called the dealer and swapped to the 72002 controller which is the pwm controller. I will be buying a fuelab electronic fuel pressure regulator. I want to run one regulator, @Angrey are you running a dual regulator setup?

Angrey and most of the others using this system are gen2 without the DI pump. Depending on your HP goals you may need a separate non electronic regulator for the di pump. Your fuel supply would enter the non-electronic regulator, which would feed the di pump, the return from that regulator would feed the electronic regulator. Everything else remains the same and should function just as their systems do.

Sponsored