Fly2High
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2019
- Threads
- 74
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- Location
- Long Island
- First Name
- Frank
- Vehicle(s)
- 2019 Mustang GT PP2
- Thread starter
- #1
In looking various new release threads, there is often so much talk and desire for cars that are automatic and for drag racing. I would sincerely like to understand them. I am new to the muscle car arena. Getting a GT was a dream come true. Now, I would like to understand certain aspects better which brings me to this thread on drag racing with a focus on automatic transmissions.
I will only be talking about stock, unmodified cars here. Of course, we can always modify any car, manual or automatic and make it faster than what the dealer sells. I want this focus to be on stock cars, not modified ones.
I am more of a track guy in interest where I feel that it is more obvious that a great car doesn't guarantee a win. There is still so much driver input and skill needed to win a race. Having a fast car is only part of the equation. Driving skill is still paramount.
I do not understand the skill required in drag racing, especially with an automatic. Could I have someone explain to me what it takes. Part of this, I have listed several questions below that I would also like explained to me so I can better understand what a drag guy is looking for in a dealer sold car and maybe better appreciate drag racing.
I have a cousin years before automatics were faster than manuals, installed in the reworked family cruiser an automatic and a .050 bored over 383. He could get the wheels off the ground and it ended up pulling low tens. This was a '86 Caprice Classic. Total sleeper. He said he installed the automatic because he knew he could get repeatable times. He did not have to worry about skipping a shift or not shifting just right and losing a race. He knew that his deviation in times were tighter than just about every manual guy and if they were close in performance and they were not perfect, he could beat them. He could pull the same times over and over based on what was capable of that day and track conditions, barely deviating higher or lower on each pull.. The automatic made him more repeatable. He could,at the time, install a manual and improve his drag times but it would require him to improve and maintain his skill. The auto reduced the number of variables to make his times repeatable.
How many want an automatic drag car because it is currently the fastest dealer optioned car, because it is more repeatable or for some other reason(lack of skill in a manual, no time to develop a skill, etc)?
With all the nannies to help with launch control, etc. will the sport of drag racing turn into being a spec sheet comparison? If the computer is controlling the launch and two cars pull up to the line with well maintained cars, won't the one with the better specs win? If Car A is 2/10th of a second faster than Car B and both are automatics, you know that you already lost before the green falls. What is the point of racing? You lost before you got started. Cars are doing more with computers so that going fast and actually hitting the car magazine specs is becoming a reality.
What is the point of racing, other than the pure enjoyment and thrill of flying down the track, when you know that the car next to you was manufactured to beat yours and both are autos with launch control? What I mean is, it sounds to me that most are not in drag racing for the thrill of the drive. they are looking for every tenth of a second for the win. Those that love the drive, do not need a new car to be the very fastest. they only need it to be equal or better than what they have now. If they were into the drive, they would not constantly bring up the small margin of improvement an auto has today over a manual. The real thrill is in the drive, not how you drive.
With electrics being stupid fast. Will drag guys eventually give up ICE cars in order to get to the next level of performance especially since you can buy a Tesla right now and already kill everyone in the 1/4?
In comparison to driving at a track with all the twists and turns, drag racing to me is a floor stomp straight line drive. The feeling of being connected with a car, to me, is more felt in track than drag. Can you describe what it means to feel connected with your drag car, especially an automatic drag car? When I drive my manual, I am one with the car. Does it really matter if you feel connected? (I am not saying an emotional connection either - we all feel emotionally connected with our cars. I am talking about the driving experience).
How often do you replace a drag car? How much is it because it is worn out or is it because you started to lose races and need something faster? I seriously do not know the turnover rate of a car that has bee drag raced and I wonder how often it is because a faster car came out and it is the win that is more so desired.
If Mustangs were to start being the slightly slower drag car, for whatever reason, would you still buy them knowing that every time you race against cars X,Y and Z, you were going to lose? I am sure there are those who are fan boys and I am not talking about those guys. I am looking at those who buy the car as a tool to enjoy drag racing only. If your tool was inadequate, would you not buy something else? Is the thrill of having the fastest stock car more important to a drag racer than the car? I guess the real question here is what is it you look for in a drag car? It cannot just be the 1/4 mile times.
How many daily drive their tracked drag car? I am not asking about the stop light heroes. I am asking those who take it to the drag strip an actually race the car. Do you also daily drive it or does it just sit on the side, like a tennis racket or golf clubs until you decide to go 'play'? Do you do anything to prep a car for drag day vs daily drive?
Why is it so important to buy a stock car that has the best numbers today when tomorrow, something WILL come out with better specs and beat you very shortly down the line? I find auto guys tend to be hung up on the fact that they are the fastest. Tomorrow, they won't be and they won't be if they go up against a guy who put a little wrench time and tuning even if it might be a manual. Are automatic driver and/or drag car guys hung up on published 1/4 mile times?
I read that it is better to have smaller diameter wheels with larger tires on a drag car for the slingshot effect. Why as so many guys wanting handling packages and big diameter wheels with skinny tires if they desire to drag a car? the CobraJet Mustang drag car is the opposite of what so many drag guys seem to want. That car had a larger diameter rear wheel with far smaller wheels , in ratio, than what most GTs have, especially the ones with 'packages' or Shelby in their names.
I wonder beside stoplight racing, how many guys who are hung up with the fastest spec sheet actually use the car at the track? If a few tenths of a second mean everything, does that hinder your desire to buy since they are always talking about the next car coming soon being so much better than what is out now.
Does having a factory car with a warranty matter to you when you go dragging? Do you feel that you are taking advantage of the manufacturer a bit since you are severely beating on the car and you are not paying for the repairs and maintenance yourself? I see all pro teams do their own parts replacement and over the years, if you blow a tranny or engine or whatever, it was on you to tow the car home and fix it. Is it partly because so many people like to drive at the drag strip but do not have the skill to maintain a car? Of course to pay someone else to fix your car would quickly get cost prohibitive.
Isn't part of drag racing having the ability to wrench and repair your own car or at least have someone who can teach you? I ask because I find so many people these days who cannot change the oil or a tire much less replace an alternator, redo the brakes or God forbid, rebuild a tranny.
Is it important to drag guys to be able to buy a car from the dealership and then be able to go straight to the track? In the old days, part of the fun was modifying your car. Has modifying a car to improve it been lost?
Please forgive me if I sound defensive. Not meant to. I can only express myself from the side of the fence I have been on. Maybe if I get a better understanding, I can better appreciate the 'next 1/4 mile' and be more supportive of your camp.
Sorry it turned into a lot of questions. As I looked at various things, it got me thinking about more questions. I am sure there will be more to come. Please honestly answer what you feel and maybe you will get a few more track guys into your corner or at least help others understand your needs.
With much appreciation,
Frank
I will only be talking about stock, unmodified cars here. Of course, we can always modify any car, manual or automatic and make it faster than what the dealer sells. I want this focus to be on stock cars, not modified ones.
I am more of a track guy in interest where I feel that it is more obvious that a great car doesn't guarantee a win. There is still so much driver input and skill needed to win a race. Having a fast car is only part of the equation. Driving skill is still paramount.
I do not understand the skill required in drag racing, especially with an automatic. Could I have someone explain to me what it takes. Part of this, I have listed several questions below that I would also like explained to me so I can better understand what a drag guy is looking for in a dealer sold car and maybe better appreciate drag racing.
I have a cousin years before automatics were faster than manuals, installed in the reworked family cruiser an automatic and a .050 bored over 383. He could get the wheels off the ground and it ended up pulling low tens. This was a '86 Caprice Classic. Total sleeper. He said he installed the automatic because he knew he could get repeatable times. He did not have to worry about skipping a shift or not shifting just right and losing a race. He knew that his deviation in times were tighter than just about every manual guy and if they were close in performance and they were not perfect, he could beat them. He could pull the same times over and over based on what was capable of that day and track conditions, barely deviating higher or lower on each pull.. The automatic made him more repeatable. He could,at the time, install a manual and improve his drag times but it would require him to improve and maintain his skill. The auto reduced the number of variables to make his times repeatable.
How many want an automatic drag car because it is currently the fastest dealer optioned car, because it is more repeatable or for some other reason(lack of skill in a manual, no time to develop a skill, etc)?
With all the nannies to help with launch control, etc. will the sport of drag racing turn into being a spec sheet comparison? If the computer is controlling the launch and two cars pull up to the line with well maintained cars, won't the one with the better specs win? If Car A is 2/10th of a second faster than Car B and both are automatics, you know that you already lost before the green falls. What is the point of racing? You lost before you got started. Cars are doing more with computers so that going fast and actually hitting the car magazine specs is becoming a reality.
What is the point of racing, other than the pure enjoyment and thrill of flying down the track, when you know that the car next to you was manufactured to beat yours and both are autos with launch control? What I mean is, it sounds to me that most are not in drag racing for the thrill of the drive. they are looking for every tenth of a second for the win. Those that love the drive, do not need a new car to be the very fastest. they only need it to be equal or better than what they have now. If they were into the drive, they would not constantly bring up the small margin of improvement an auto has today over a manual. The real thrill is in the drive, not how you drive.
With electrics being stupid fast. Will drag guys eventually give up ICE cars in order to get to the next level of performance especially since you can buy a Tesla right now and already kill everyone in the 1/4?
In comparison to driving at a track with all the twists and turns, drag racing to me is a floor stomp straight line drive. The feeling of being connected with a car, to me, is more felt in track than drag. Can you describe what it means to feel connected with your drag car, especially an automatic drag car? When I drive my manual, I am one with the car. Does it really matter if you feel connected? (I am not saying an emotional connection either - we all feel emotionally connected with our cars. I am talking about the driving experience).
How often do you replace a drag car? How much is it because it is worn out or is it because you started to lose races and need something faster? I seriously do not know the turnover rate of a car that has bee drag raced and I wonder how often it is because a faster car came out and it is the win that is more so desired.
If Mustangs were to start being the slightly slower drag car, for whatever reason, would you still buy them knowing that every time you race against cars X,Y and Z, you were going to lose? I am sure there are those who are fan boys and I am not talking about those guys. I am looking at those who buy the car as a tool to enjoy drag racing only. If your tool was inadequate, would you not buy something else? Is the thrill of having the fastest stock car more important to a drag racer than the car? I guess the real question here is what is it you look for in a drag car? It cannot just be the 1/4 mile times.
How many daily drive their tracked drag car? I am not asking about the stop light heroes. I am asking those who take it to the drag strip an actually race the car. Do you also daily drive it or does it just sit on the side, like a tennis racket or golf clubs until you decide to go 'play'? Do you do anything to prep a car for drag day vs daily drive?
Why is it so important to buy a stock car that has the best numbers today when tomorrow, something WILL come out with better specs and beat you very shortly down the line? I find auto guys tend to be hung up on the fact that they are the fastest. Tomorrow, they won't be and they won't be if they go up against a guy who put a little wrench time and tuning even if it might be a manual. Are automatic driver and/or drag car guys hung up on published 1/4 mile times?
I read that it is better to have smaller diameter wheels with larger tires on a drag car for the slingshot effect. Why as so many guys wanting handling packages and big diameter wheels with skinny tires if they desire to drag a car? the CobraJet Mustang drag car is the opposite of what so many drag guys seem to want. That car had a larger diameter rear wheel with far smaller wheels , in ratio, than what most GTs have, especially the ones with 'packages' or Shelby in their names.
I wonder beside stoplight racing, how many guys who are hung up with the fastest spec sheet actually use the car at the track? If a few tenths of a second mean everything, does that hinder your desire to buy since they are always talking about the next car coming soon being so much better than what is out now.
Does having a factory car with a warranty matter to you when you go dragging? Do you feel that you are taking advantage of the manufacturer a bit since you are severely beating on the car and you are not paying for the repairs and maintenance yourself? I see all pro teams do their own parts replacement and over the years, if you blow a tranny or engine or whatever, it was on you to tow the car home and fix it. Is it partly because so many people like to drive at the drag strip but do not have the skill to maintain a car? Of course to pay someone else to fix your car would quickly get cost prohibitive.
Isn't part of drag racing having the ability to wrench and repair your own car or at least have someone who can teach you? I ask because I find so many people these days who cannot change the oil or a tire much less replace an alternator, redo the brakes or God forbid, rebuild a tranny.
Is it important to drag guys to be able to buy a car from the dealership and then be able to go straight to the track? In the old days, part of the fun was modifying your car. Has modifying a car to improve it been lost?
Please forgive me if I sound defensive. Not meant to. I can only express myself from the side of the fence I have been on. Maybe if I get a better understanding, I can better appreciate the 'next 1/4 mile' and be more supportive of your camp.
Sorry it turned into a lot of questions. As I looked at various things, it got me thinking about more questions. I am sure there will be more to come. Please honestly answer what you feel and maybe you will get a few more track guys into your corner or at least help others understand your needs.
With much appreciation,
Frank
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