Need help on fuel pumps (e85)

[Srtandsvt]

Gen1 Car, gen2 motor, it Made 1025whp, single s480 turbo, 1600cc injectors and Dual GT500 pumps on e85, I’m upping it soon but the pumps are pretty much maxed out. What would be the next upgrade? I want pumps to supply enough for 12-1300whp.
Prob won’t happen any time soon but want to do it now while the car is down. Any input is appreciated..thnx

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[Jackson1320]

Gen1 Car, gen2 motor, it Made 1025whp, single s480 turbo, 1600cc injectors and Dual GT500 pumps on e85, I’m upping it soon but the pumps are pretty much maxed out. What would be the next upgrade? I want pumps to supply enough for 12-1300whp.
Prob won’t happen any time soon but want to do it now while the car is down. Any input is appreciated..thnx

That easy add a third pump

 

[Angrey]

Radium now offers a hat that can fit the L5M "Bugatti" pumps. They're expensive, but 2 of them will run just about anything you can throw at it and one of them boosted will probably handle your needs.

Deatschwerks offers the 440 (also an in tank brushless). Aeromotive, Fuelab, etc offer external brushless (Fuel lab actually offers an surge tank option as does DW now).

If you don't want to run an external in line, the other option is a surge tank.

For in the tank, the options are getting better. Triple Walbros is fine for drag only cars but is gonna pull 60 amps continuous. Injector dynamics makes a pretty kickass brushless setup with their proprietary driver.

Have you tried boosting the 500 pumps? The other advantage of brushless is that they're not as finicky when boosting. DW claims they've ran their 440 at continuous 22V (although the literature only recommends 18v continuous 22v intermittent).

 

[Jackson1320]

IMO. A triple pump setup with the pumps coming on in series is going to be the easiest being that you are already setup for this and just need to add one

 

[Srtandsvt]

IMO. A triple pump setup with the pumps coming on in series is going to be the easiest being that you are already setup for this and just need to add one

I have a 2 pump fuel hat. Was thinking just buying a triple hat, just dunno which brand or size pumps I should get. Maybe 3 465’s or 525’s ::

 

[Basspro302]

That radium fuel hat looks nice, I wonder what it would support with the returnless setup.

 

[Angrey]

http://www.radiumauto.com/Blog/Post/Radium-s-Ultimate-Fuel-Pump-Test-100

First off, you need to frame the problem properly.

So you want 1300 rwhp? Without blower losses, typical S550 drive train losses are about 12-15% (manual to auto). That means before accounting for blower, you'll need to make around 1500 hp at the crank.

We'll assume you'll need to do this with boost (around 25 psi) and that it'll be on E85.

Using your preferred fuel flow calculator (I prefer injector dynamics because it more accurately accounts for fuel consumption at a given rpm and lambda) you'll need about 970 liters/hour. Assuming your tuner will want your base fuel pressure to be around 55 psi, that means you'll have to push 970 liters per hour at around 85 psi. (25 extra psi to overcome boost reference 1:1 and another 5 psi for system losses due to fittings, filters, etc). Looking at radium real world flow data, at 85 psi, the only pump that could get you there with 2 pumps is the BKS1000 (otherwise known as the Bugatti veyron pump). Those are going to be right on the edge, assuming near perfect efficiency with zero flow loss from either the jet siphon system (which typically draws about 40 liter/hour per pump) or the return flow.

Basically, you'd be right at the limits with 2 brushless 1000 pumps and the only manufacturer offering an in tank with those pumps (that I'm aware of) is Radium. You could easily boost them and make way more flow and power.

Next is the TI 295, which isn't really an option for most people because it has no internal check valves (meaning fuel can backflow when the pump isn't running creating either a need for external check valve, more pressure loss, and/or issues at start up with priming the system for adequate pressure)

The only difference between the 295 and the 285 is that the 285 has check valves. The 285 without a voltage booster, in triple pumps wouldn't be able to get you there given all the parameters above, it flows just over 300 at 85 psi.

The difference between the 274 and the 285, is that the 285 is just a harder spinning 274, that draws more current.

So you could get there running triple 285s, with a voltage booster, however, you're gonna be drawing a FUCK TON of current. At 85 psi, each 285 pump is going to draw about 21 amps, and that's before boosting with a voltage booster. When boosted to say 18v, those pumps will spit out a ton, however you're gonna run probably 30 amps per pump. Gonna be hard on your electrical system, if you drive the car often or long periods of time, even if you stage the pumps for 2 all the time and a 3rd only at high boost.

1300 rear doesn't sound like a street car, probably a dedicated trailer queen so maybe that's not a big concern for you.

The brushless stuff either in a surge tank or inline sounds like the way to go if it were my build. It'll pump more on less power draw. It's obviously more complex and probably more expensive but will be way more reliable.

Those power levels the last thing you need is a failed hobb switch or one of the pumps craps out. At the boost levels you'll need to see 1300 wheels, any hiccup with fuel is gonna be carnage and sad face.

 

[Srtandsvt]

Tnx, I’m running on e85 and it’s a Single turbo setup. This Turbo won’t get me to my goal (s480) but I want to do the fuel and be done rather than going by stages..

 

[Jackson1320]

I have a 2 pump fuel hat. Was thinking just buying a triple hat, just dunno which brand or size pumps I should get. Maybe 3 465’s or 525’s ::

I used the on3 hat. Holds 3 pumps and only has one line out and one return

 

[illtal]

Tnx, I’m running on e85 and it’s a Single turbo setup. This Turbo won’t get me to my goal (s480) but I want to do the fuel and be done rather than going by stages..

I have a Lethal Performance triple hat. It is unused it's bit of overkill for me so I didn't use it.
I would use the walbro 274 pumps ( they are cheap, and and just a bit lower lph than the 285 pumps but run much cooler) with three running you wouldn't even need a bap.
If you want I could sell it to you. PM me if interested it has all the pump pigtails installed as well.

 

[beefcake]

triple setup, 1 274 all the time and stage 2 - 285s at that power



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